Homosexual Hypocrisy

[Natoma]

I believe Epic is trying to point out that the reason the press/democratic part isn't trying to make a production out of this is do to the fact they have similar agendas.

He may be looking for you to condemn the double standard.

Actually the story on Trent Lott was buried when it first hit. It surfaced a couple of weeks later after conservatives, concerned about the perception of racism in the republican party, began condemning him for his actions. Ironically it was democrats who were among the most vocal in stating that Lott should keep his job as majority leader. The democrats let the conservatives skewer Lott for the most part. So if you're looking for a double standard, there simply isn't one.

 

[Vince]

Whether or not you accept that is not really any of my concern. Just like until today I didn't know Beachcomber or Cocoa Shunter was a descriptive term for a male homosexual. This is really ludicrous. Believe it or not I do not know every word in the english language.

Give me a break. The term "fruitcake" is just a bit more common in usage.

This has to be your way of dealing with the issue, right? Just claim ignorance and avoid it? Because I can't accept that you're that ignorant - and if so then who the hell are you to even ponder the true conditions faced by Homosexuals in our society as you so often do in debates here? Shame on you.

 

[Legion]

i would have associated beachcomber with beachbum.

 

[Natoma]

Give me a break. The term "fruitcake" is just a bit more common in usage.

This has to be your way of dealing with the issue, right? Just claim ignorance and avoid it? Because I can't accept that you're that ignorant - and if so then who the hell are you to even ponder the true conditionas faced by Homosexuals in our society? Shame on you.

Vince. Really. Get a life.

 

[Vince]

Vince. Really. Get a life.

Good responce, right inline with your other discussions with me. Don't worry bud, I wasn't expecting an answer anyways.

 

[Legion]

I believe Epic is trying to point out that the reason the press/democratic part isn't trying to make a production out of this is do to the fact they have similar agendas.

He may be looking for you to condemn the double standard.

Actually the story on Trent Lott was buried when it first hit. It surfaced a couple of weeks later after conservatives, concerned about the perception of racism in the republican party, began condemning him for his actions. Ironically it was democrats who were among the most vocal in stating that Lott should keep his job as majority leader. The democrats let the conservatives skewer Lott for the most part. So if you're looking for a double standard, there simply isn't one.

I am not just talking about trent lot Natoma. I am sure if we search the liberal press we can find many articles referencing such allegations. These supposed democrats you speak of hardly compensate for past behaviors.

 

[Natoma]

Good responce, right inline with your other discussions with me. Don't worry bud, I wasn't expecting an answer anyways.

Ahem.

Whether or not you accept that is not really any of my concern. Just like until today I didn't know Beachcomber or Cocoa Shunter was a descriptive term for a male homosexual. This is really ludicrous. Believe it or not I do not know every word in the english language.

I've given you an answer. You simply refuse to see it. When you get that way I tend to ignore you. Definitely right on that one.

p.s.: I just asked eddie if he'd ever heard of fruitcake as a gay slur and he says he has. Well guess what. I learn something new every day. But naturally, I'm lying about this to cover up some massive agenda. Does the word paranoid have any meaning for you Vince?

 

[Natoma]

I am not just talking about trent lot Natoma. I am sure if we search the liberal press we can find many articles referencing such allegations. These supposed democrats you speak of hardly compensate for past behaviors.

Well, Lott was the gold standard proferred by vince so I thought we were all referring to that situation. Joe Lieberman and Senate Majority Leader (at the time) Tom Daschle were among the democrats who came out in support of Lott.

 

[Legion]

I am not just talking about trent lot Natoma. I am sure if we search the liberal press we can find many articles referencing such allegations. These supposed democrats you speak of hardly compensate for past behaviors.

Well, Lott was the gold standard proferred by vince so I thought we were all referring to that situation. Joe Lieberman and Senate Majority Leader (at the time) Tom Daschle were among the democrats who came out in support of Lott.

Why do you think the Republicans were so concerned with their imagine and race? Most likely because their opposition's history of trying to play on certain conservative stereotypes they generated.

 

[Natoma]

Why do you think the Republicans were so concerned with their imagine and race? Most likely because their opposition's history of trying to play on certain conservative stereotypes they generated.

Well lets be honest here. Stereotypes are indeed steeped in fact you know.... Good and bad.

 

[Legion]

Why do you think the Republicans were so concerned with their imagine and race? Most likely because their opposition's history of trying to play on certain conservative stereotypes they generated.

Well lets be honest here. Stereotypes are indeed steeped in fact you know.... Good and bad.

That all conservatives are racist? If so it wouldn't be a stereotype. It would fact.

...I have often heard people say homosexuals are effeminate.

one such stereotypical quality of women is irrationality.

 

[pax]

Ive always thought of fruitcake as non gay slur. I do know of plenty of gay slurs but to me fruitcake meant idiot or not right in the head.

 

[Dave H]

Fruitcake was indeed a mild anti-gay slur which connoted the social oddities and mild mental behavoral disorders associated with homosexuality decades ago (back when homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder). It has since lost most of its strict anti-gay connotations and is commonly used as a sexual-orientation-neutral way to call someone goofy.

Cocksucker is an insult which obviously accuses the recipient of being gay, but which, as far as I know, has never been generally directed at gay men. (For obvious reasons--it's only an effective insult against those who prize their heterosexuality.)

I don't think any (American) English speaker would disagree that these insults are commonly directed at straight men with absolutely no serious imputation that they are, in fact, homosexuals. Moreover, in the absence of any evidence that Bill Thomas is gay, rumored to be gay, or particularly effeminate, it seems obvious that Rep. Stark intended these as garden-variety insults, not insults specially directed at gays.

Perhaps we should all reflect on the fact that the semantic content of so many common insults is merely to imply that the target is gay. But to argue that using them is worthy of censure for homophobia is ludicrous. (In this case their use was worthy of censure for being inappropriate for a Congressional committee, but no more so than if he'd called Thomas a motherfucker and a shithead.)

The comparison to Trent Lott's joking praise of Jim Crow is totally ridiculous.

 

[Vince]

I don't think any (American) English speaker would disagree that these insults are commonly directed at straight men with absolutely no serious imputation that they are, in fact, homosexuals. Moreover, in the absence of any evidence that Bill Thomas is gay, rumored to be gay, or particularly effeminate, it seems obvious that Rep. Stark intended these as garden-variety insults, not insults specially directed at gays.

If you agree that it's an insult (which you do) and it was directed at a heterosexual (which it was) then it's obviously inferring that homosexuals are "lower" or "inferior" than heterosexuals - which is the only way in which you can make that comment an insult.

If this democrat was genuinly concerned about gay rights and believed in their ideology (as those lying Gay-Rights advoactes stated), then for him to call someone a "fruitcake" or "cocksucker" wouldn't be an insult as it's compering equal individuals and their equaly acceptable practices.

Yet, anyone with common sence sees that it was an insult, and an insult at the expense of homosexuals. For which they should be outraged, not making up excuses for a man who also said that former Health and Human Services Secretary Louis Sullivan is "a disgrace to his race."

The comparison to Trent Lott's joking praise of Jim Crow is totally ridiculous.

Perhaps you should pay attention to Natoma more. He's already stated that Homosexual Rights and it's current fight is the 21st century's struggle against the overwelming social prejudice - just as last centuries was toppling the prejudice based on color and race (enter Jim Crow).

It sounds like your inferring that the homosexual cause and their fight for equality spearheaded by the vast minority isn't equivalent to the cause for racial equality that was once held in the same regard so many years ago.

Infact, you've stated that the very comperason is "Ridiculous." Way to go.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Cocoa Shunter

OK, so what's more hypocritical: a gay supporter making gay slurs, or the gays defending him?

 

[zurich]

You're really picking a fight here Vince

 

[Legion]

You're really picking a fight here Vince

shhh i'm watching don't disturb them.

 

[Dave H]

If you agree that it's an insult (which you do) and it was directed at a heterosexual (which it was) then it's obviously inferring that homosexuals are "lower" or "inferior" than heterosexuals - which is the only way in which you can make that comment an insult.

If this democrat was genuinly concerned about gay rights and believed in their ideology (as those lying Gay-Rights advoactes stated), then for him to call someone a "fruitcake" or "cocksucker" wouldn't be an insult as it's compering equal individuals and their equaly acceptable practices.

Yes, it is a shame that many common insults imply that homosexuality is lower or inferior to heterosexuality. However, that complaint is with the English language, not Rep. Stark for using it. Presumably (hopefully) in time most of the subtle bigotries of language will be phased out. In the meantime, while I try to avoid such usages myself (and the fact that Stark didn't certainly doesn't identify him as particularly sensitive to issues of gay equality), it's not my top priority, and I would imagine it is far from the top priority of homosexuals in their struggle for equality.

Blacks might not be thrilled with the fact that a "white lie" is benign and a "black heart" is evil, but I think most recognize they have more important concerns to worry about, even now--much less a few decades ago when they often suffered from levels of discrimination similar to what many homosexuals suffer today.

The comparison to Trent Lott's joking praise of Jim Crow is totally ridiculous.

Perhaps you should pay attention to Natoma more. He's already stated that Homosexual Rights and it's current fight is the 21st century's struggle against the overwelming social prejudice - just as last centuries was toppling the prejudice based on color and race (enter Jim Crow).

I agree with Natoma on this point. However, I don't think Stark's comments are at all the equivalent of Senator Lott's. Rather, a good approximation would be if he had said something like: "if only the rest of the country were more like Laramie, Wyoming we wouldn't be having all these problems today."

If he'd said that, I'm quite sure I, Natoma, and the HRC would not be as forgiving.

It sounds like your inferring that the homosexual cause and their fight for equality spearheaded by the vast minority isn't equivalent to the cause for racial equality that was once held in the same regard so many years ago.

Infact, you've stated that the very comperason is "Ridiculous." Way to go.

Gee. It sounds like you're a troll, and a moron. Way to go yourself.

 

[London Geezer]

Jonathan: I need u guys to hold hands...
Andrew: With each other???
Warren: Well u know what homophobia REALLY means about u, right...
Jonathan: STOP TOUCHING MY MAGIC BONE!!!

(BTW why is it that loads of gay guys love sci-fi or fantasy stuff like Buffy?)

 

[Mariner]

Well, here in the UK, 'Fruitcake' certainly means someone who is a bit crackers i.e. eccentric, odd, mad professor type. Can't say it is ever really used as a gay insult.

Now, if he'd called him an "uphill gardener" on the other hand...