Heavy Rain [PS3]

[Sigfried1977]

I have to say this game was a mixed bag.

I agree. The story is full of holes (lots of smaller ones and one really huge one) and relies on really cheap red herrings to mislead the player almost exclusively. The feats the characters perform are often implausible and in Shelby's case borderline superhuman. That's kind of okay in a Resident Evil game, but in a game that tries so hard to come across as real as possible it hurts a lot. Then there's the cliches like the comically incompetent police force.
The choices you make are mostly meaningless too, with a rippling effect that barely extends to the next chapter. In case you manage to get a character killed (which is a lot harder than I hoped it would be) his or her remaining story sequences will be simply missing from the remainder of the game. There's zero impact on the stories of the remaining characters. The only sequences that can change drastically are the very last one and of course the epilogue.

Another problem for me was that unlike in, let's say, Dragon Age, where your character is a blank sheet, the characters in HR have very clearly defined personalities from the get go. This means that some of the choices you get to make later will possibly be totally out of character. The optional love scene is the worst offender here. It just has no place in a story like this. (imagine how much Se7en would have sucked if you could have chosen to not have Mills kill John Doe at the end)

Overall I'm quite disappointed with the game. If you make a game that relies entirely on story, believable characters and emotions you really have to nail those parts. There's simply nothing else to fall back on to. Sadly the story in HR is quite poor, makes very little sense at times and there's no stellar performances or good voice acting to save it either.

Some of the scenes are quite powerful and both art direction and sound design are stellar. Sadly those are about the only positive aspects I can think of at the moment.
I guess it's up to team Ico to deliver once again when it comes to emotional gaming experiences.

 

[manux]

I agree. The story is full of holes (lots of smaller ones and one really huge one) and relies on really cheap red herrings to mislead the player almost exclusively. The feats the characters perform are often implausible and in Shelby's case borderline superhuman. That's kind of okay in a Resident Evil game, but in a game that tries so hard to come across as real as possible it hurts a lot. Then there's the cliches like the comically incompetent police force.
The choices you make are mostly meaningless too, with a rippling effect that barely extends to the next chapter. In case you manage to get a character killed (which is a lot harder than I hoped it would be) his or her remaining story sequences will be simply missing from the remainder of the game. There's zero impact on the stories of the remaining characters. The only sequences that can change drastically are the very last one and of course the epilogue.

Sounds like you hate the game. I quite liked heavy rain, to me it's a good game but not the game of the year or decade If the game was too realistic I think it would become very boring, some holes and whatnots are expected to keep things going. Holes at least to me didn't spoil the game. I can see how this can be an issue to some people, but I didn't really mind too much.

Part why I don't mind it might be because of my affection to stuff david lynch has done. I wouldn't count twin peaks or mullholland drive to be consistent by any measure. Yet both of those are hugely entertaining. Though I can see how some people would like more realism. But then the final decision comes to matters of taste and there isn't possibility to please them all.

I think heavy rain had loads more diversity in how to play the game than a lot of other recent console games piled together. How would you have made the choices matter more if the beginning and end is kept the same? At least to me there is plenty of replay value in seeing how the different scenes play out, more so than in any movie that has alternate endings in the disc.

I think sequel can improve a lot. After all the developer will get loads of feedback. They also have engine, a lot of assets and tools ready. I'm almost scared thinking how great a sequel can be with slight improvements here and there and with a more interesting and complex story arch.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I didn't hate it. I just expected to like it a lot more. It was basically the game I've been looking forward to the most this entire hardware generation. I was promised big emotions, big choices and big consequences. I didn't get any of that.

As for David Lynch movies: they are sort of fucked up, vague and borderline surreal experiences by design, while HR is supposed to be a down-to-earth character driven crime drama.

 

[manux]

I didn't hate it. I just expected to like it a lot more. It was basically the game I've been looking forward to the most this entire hardware generation. I was promised big emotions, big choices and big consequences. I didn't get any of that.

As for David Lynch movies: they are sort of fucked up, vague and borderline surreal experiences by design, while HR is supposed to be a down-to-earth character driven crime drama.

well, I did have some pretty big emotions, but perhaps that's also matter of taste.

Spoiler

How about the kid getting killed in beginning or madison+paco scene, or the part where you could let the lady drown on the car, or fbi agent been grinded to death.

. At least to me all those moments were big and the path to end changes considerably based on who lives and dies... and even more so in the end where you can...

Spoiler

save everyone or let everyone die even to the point were ethan then hangs himself in prison. or something in between

.

How would you make a game like this have more meaningful choices? Any concrete ideas that would make heavy rain better for you? I just cannot see much more to be done in the context of heavy rain And I don't really see any story driven short(ish) console games having better illusion of choice in reaching the goal. I think one of the pinnacles before heavy rain was mass effect and heavy rain definitely holds its own ground in comparison.

I saw some discontinuities in the story in the same vein as lynch movies work

Spoiler

the concussion+blackouts, origami figures ethan finds in his hand, something out of the left field that isn't strictly explainable but needed to make the story interesting

the one hole a lot of people are shouting at I think isn't a hole

Spoiler

the part where madison finds out the name of the killer and gasps in horror. If madison had really been investigating origami killer for long time it would be no surprise she would know of the private eye making an investigation on the same case

In case you manage to get a character killed (which is a lot harder than I hoped it would be) his or her remaining story sequences will be simply missing from the remainder of the game. There's zero impact on the stories of the remaining characters. The only sequences that can change drastically are the very last one and of course the epilogue.

Strictly speaking not really true.

Spoiler

For example the night club scene is different depending if you play that with madison or the fbi dude. Similarly the hospital scene can be played with both madison and ethan. There might be more variation but I haven't yet tried all the possibilities

Maybe you should reset your expectations and give heavy rain a new run and see the alternative routes to end

 

[Sigfried1977]

How would you make a game like this have more meaningful choices? Any concrete ideas that would make heavy rain better for you? I just cannot see much more to be done in the context of heavy rain And I don't really see any story driven short(ish) console games having better illusion of choice in reaching the goal. I think one of the pinnacles before heavy rain was mass effect and heavy rain definitely holds its own ground in comparison.

Spoiler

Take the nightclub scene for example: if you let Madison die at the hands of doctor death, the only change in the nightclub scene with Jayden is a missing split screen scene that would normally be going on between Paco and the killer, where he tells him that a crazy bitch almost killed him. Then you just find him and he's already dead. Wouldn't it have been interesting to find Paco alive instead and do some questioning?
I generally would have loved if all the little chapters were linked to each other a little more closely. For example have Ethan collapse from pain and exhaustion sooner o later if there's no Madison to patch him up. This might open up the possibility for Ethan to collaborate with Jayden and the cops as sort of a last resort effort. I actually would have loved the choice to work with the cops right from the beginning.
In general I would have liked the story to branch into different directions because of my choices, not merely because of my fuck-ups.

 

[manux]

Spoiler

Take the nightclub scene for example: if you let Madison die at the hands of doctor death, the only change in the nightclub scene with Jayden is a missing split screen scene that would normally be going on between Paco and the killer, where he tells him that a crazy bitch almost killed him. Then you just find him and he's already dead. Wouldn't it have been interesting to find Paco alive instead and do some questioning?
I generally would have loved if all the little chapters were linked to each other a little more closely. For example have Ethan collapse from pain and exhaustion sooner o later if there's no Madison to patch him up. This might open up the possibility for Ethan to collaborate with Jayden and the cops as sort of a last resort effort. I actually would have loved the choice to work with the cops right from the beginning.
In general I would have liked the story to branch into different directions because of my choices, not merely because of my fuck-ups.

About the club scene

Spoiler

what about the part where madison needs to dance to get to talk to paco and then has to strip on the private room

I actually fcked up on purpose on some occasions I felt that it's my decision either play it "properly" or let some baaad things happen once in a while.

 

[Sigfried1977]

The problem is that even if you deliberately screw up, the game often acts like nothing ever happened regardless.

Spoiler

if you fry Ethan often enough during the butterfly trial he'll collapse, only to wake up on the other side a bit later where you can safely collect the data card. If you decide against driving on the wrong side of the highway, Ethan will still do it. If you decide to evade Madison's question whether you are the killer or not he'll just add another sentence before confessing to her anyway. If you wait a couple of minutes when Shelby and Lauren are trapped in the sunken car he'll still emerge from the water without your help. If you don't leave Shelby's card on Lauren's table he'll just do it for you. If you don't get all your fingerprints at Manfred's Antiques you'll end up at the police but it doesn't really matter one way or the other. The list goes on and on, and I thought this was rather frustrating.

Also, what happens if you screw up during the Madison scene with Paco?

 

[manux]

The problem is that even if you deliberately screw up, the game often acts like nothing ever happened regardless.

Spoiler

if you fry Ethan often enough during the butterfly trial he'll collapse, only to wake up on the other side a bit later where you can safely collect the data card. If you decide against driving on the wrong side of the highway, Ethan will still do it. If you decide to evade Madison's question whether you are the killer or not he'll just add another sentence before confessing to her anyway. If you wait a couple of minutes when Shelby and Lauren are trapped in the sunken car he'll still emerge from the water without your help. If you don't leave Shelby's card on Lauren's table he'll just do it for you. If you don't get all your fingerprints at Manfred's Antiques you'll end up at the police but it doesn't really matter one way or the other. The list goes on and on, and I thought this was rather frustrating.

Also, what happens if you screw up during the Madison scene with Paco?

I guess we have to agree to disagree here You see the cup half empty whereas I see cup half full. On my account heavy rain was solid first part and will hopefully breed new series of games to world that is too full of shooters and ratchet&clank sequels. Even in it's current form there aren't many (if any) story driven console games that can challenge the amount of different routes and endings player can choose from in heavy rain.

My main gripe is that I didn't like the plot as it is and no amount of additional content or routes or endings wouldn't really make me give heavy rain better grade(solid 8+ it is). If I hadn't already watched too many saw movies, hostel movies etc. I probably would value heavy rain higher as it would feel fresher, now it just feels on many parts just like copy/paste.

 

[Sigfried1977]

... will hopefully breed new series of games to world that is too full of shooters and ratchet&clank sequels.

At least in this regard I fully agree with you. The game didn't turn out quite like I was hoping it would, but if it's financial success encourages other developers to try something besides the usual shooter junk it was more than worth it already.

 

[patsu]

Spoiler

if you fry Ethan often enough during the butterfly trial he'll collapse, only to wake up on the other side a bit later where you can safely collect the data card.

This is _not_ true. I failed the butteryfly trial after 3 tries. The game made me go through the

Spoiler

Coward door. I did not get the data card at all.

.

In many cases, our action don't make much differences. But in many cases, they do -- and it can be very different (So different that I regretted immediately). There is no way to tell beforehand.

 

[_phil_]

There is potential for basically any type of game with that kind of strong non-linear story and possibly stronger gameplay mechanics....

HR is old mechanics within a new skin ( AA(a) production values ) .Still ,it's 4-5 years of developpement to make the base story + the branchings.
Not sure yet if the business is really sound...

I'm not sure it wil drive a new trend , but it might encourage stronger story telling in standard actual gaming.

 

[patsu]

I'm not sure it wil drive a new trend , but it might encourage stronger story telling in standard actual gaming.

I agree ! I think Quantic Dreams may not want to do another game with the exact same format. Story aside, they'd need to add new twist to the "mechanism", and address existing issues.

The Arc/Vitality Sensor/Natal train may provide good source of ideas, but they only address the interaction issues.

I like the idea of making non-zombie, non-alien, non-marine, true-to-life games. It can get a little mundane at the very beginning, but once the story picks up, the game led me to a very different and refreshing territory.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Finished Heavy Rain yesterday. Will definitely play it again to try different choices.

Spoiler

My ending was:
Ethan saved his son and killed the origami killer
Madison was chased by the killer to the top of the crane, where Ethan saved her.
Jayden was killed by the car drusher in the junkyard.
Lauren was dragged out of the sunken car by Scott, and so she survived.

In the epilogue, Ethan and the kid looked for a new home, Madison was signing autographs at a bookstore.

So, my ending seems to be one of the happy ones. Wil try to get on of th bad ones next

Definitely one of the most memorable games ever. Great job Quantic Dreams, can't wait what's next from them!

 

[London Geezer]

On my account heavy rain was solid first part and will hopefully breed new series of games to world that is too full of shooters and ratchet&clank sequels.

Hey leave R&C alone! We want more!!!

 

[inefficient]

Finished Heavy Rain yesterday. Will definitely play it again to try different choices.

Spoiler

My ending was:
Ethan saved his son and killed the origami killer
Madison was chased by the killer to the top of the crane, where Ethan saved her.
Jayden was killed by the car crusher in the junkyard.
Lauren was dragged out of the sunken car by Scott, and so she survived.

In the epilogue, Ethan and the kid looked for a new home, Madison was signing autographs at a bookstore.

So, my ending seems to be one of the happy ones. Wil try to get on of th bad ones next

Definitely one of the most memorable games ever. Great job Quantic Dreams, can't wait what's next from them!

I just don't understand why people

Spoiler

choose not to have sex

with Madison.

 

[manux]

Hey leave R&C alone! We want more!!!

Naah, I was nearly fed up with the series during ps2 era. Remaking same stuff again only this time with prettier graphics makes r&c reeeeally booring on ps3. This actually is my biggest gripe with ps3/xbox360. Most of the sequels are same old stuff in prettier package with no significant changes to game mechanics. I guess it's all fine if one didn't play these games to death on ps2/xbox1. At least to me there are very few new games nowdays worth playing.

I think this actually might be one reason why ps3 games don't sell as much as one would expect, why buy again and again same stuff in new wrapping?

 

[patsu]

I just don't understand why people

Spoiler

choose not to have sex

with Madison.

I agree ! But she's mine !

 

[rabidrabbit]

I just don't understand why people

Spoiler

choose not to have sex

with Madison.

I did have

Spoiler

sex with Madison

, still

Spoiler

she didin't seem to go with Ethan at the end

. Ethan had

Spoiler

sex with her on the floor, and there wasn't a shower scene afterwards (dirty animals), so maybe it wasn't good enough sex

I would rather that

Spoiler

Ethan had sex with Jayden

, but that didin't seem to be possible.

Spoiler

I don't know what triggers these different sex scenes, and how many are there

 

[patsu]

It's okay. You just need more practice.

 

[specwarGP2]

I've never cared about spoilers for games, but for some reason with HR, I do. Havent been able to get very far in the game because of work... sadly

I actually felt kinda bad when I couldnt do the correct button presses and disappointed the little boy in the scene where you're in the park with the seesaw, swing, and merry go round... and I dont have kids either.