HDTVs for Console Play

Btw, many SXRD Tv's seems a little better than DLP because they are usually using 3 chip solutions (one for each color component). There is nothing that stops companies to prevent a 3-chip DLP solution as well, but for some reason they are not doing this (Some very expensive front-projector DLPs has this feature tough).
The only real use for 3-chip is to get rid of rainbows, and I don't think there are enough buyers to make that worthwhile for the mass market. Moreover when laser and LED light sources become more economical, you won't have rainbows even with single chip.

SXRD is the king right now, but it's more expensive and in the end it will lose the war. DLP is the only projection tech that can be single chip. It has higher ANSI constrast too (i.e. when both bright and dark things are on the screen at once) because it redirects light rather than absorbing it. It still rules the digital projector world even though Sony has that 4k chip.


BTW, l-b, recently the 60" A2000 was $2k in the US. An older 61" DLP was clearing out for $1k. Prices are really coming down now.
 
Well i wouldn't say "a little better" but anyway... The point remains, for rear/front projection, SXRD is the superior technology.

That's debatable. Sony has the blue hue/green blob problems, inferior picture quality on standard definition content which unfortunately remains predominate, and more lag than Sammy DLP's. High def picture quality is subjective with observers split and endless threads about which is better, making it clear there is no real winner. The Sony's can't properly de-interlace 1080i and Sammy's don't properly do 3:2 pull down on HD content. LCoS is good, as is DLP, but there simply isn't the perfect set out there yet. Maybe we should build it ourselves. That said, both technologies when properly calibrated, still achieve stunning results IMO.
 
Well, this thread had been very informative to me, it seems buying a TV these days is harder than a computer. And I thought $1000 would suffice for HD gaming... :oops:

Even though this is way out of my current budget, what's the difference between Sony's KDL-40W2000 that lb posted in another thread and the KDL-40XBR2. I ask because only the latter is available in my country (and it's uber expensive). Also I can't find the response time for the sets. That Aquos set linked to had a 4ms response time, which sounded mighty impressive. I'm wondering if someone has tried it for gaming.

Edit: In case you were wondering the KDL-40XBR2 is $3770 US dollars at the current exchange rate, tax included. Quite a bit out of my pricing range.
 
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Well, this thread had been very informative to me, it seems buying a TV these days is harder than a computer. And I thought $1000 would suffice for HD gaming... :oops:

Even though this is way out of my current budget, what's the difference between Sony's KDL-40W2000 that lb posted in another thread and the KDL-40XBR2. I ask because only the latter is available in my country (and it's uber expensive). Also I can't find the response time for the sets. That Aquos set linked to had a 4ms response time, which sounded mighty impressive. I'm wondering if someone has tried it for gaming.

Edit: In case you were wondering the KDL-40XBR2 is $3770 US dollars at the current exchange rate, tax included. Quite a bit out of my pricing range.

The XBR is the premium line. The W and V models are budget versions.

Physical frame and bezel apearance is the largest difference between them. The panel itself is identical. Besides the frame, the only big differences is Bravia Engine Pro vs Bravia Engine. Bravia Engine Pro just helps upconvert and do filtering on SD images.

Ontop of that these are the only other differences gamers need to care about.
XBR also has 3 HDMI inputs - V has 2.
XBR supports 1080p on the VGA PC input. V does not - but you can just connect a DVI-HDMI cable to connect your PC if you need 1080p.
 
The XBR is the premium line. The W and V models are budget versions.

Physical frame and bezel apearance is the largest difference between them. The panel itself is identical. Besides the frame, the only big differences is Bravia Engine Pro vs Bravia Engine. Bravia Engine Pro just helps upconvert and do filtering on SD images.

Ontop of that these are the only other differences gamers need to care about.
XBR also has 3 HDMI inputs - V has 2.
XBR supports 1080p on the VGA PC input. V does not - but you can just connect a DVI-HDMI cable to connect your PC if you need 1080p.

Thaks a lot man, I appreciate the prompt reply. Will have to look for that V series then, since Sony won't bring it, maybe some enterprising importer will.
 
Oh and remember that the W2000 is the UK/EUR name. I think the US name is V2500. Still amazing set, 1080p at a supidly low price, and all the goodness in the review i linked to previously.
 
If you're local to a Costco, I highly recommend you getting your HDTV there due to the fantastic warranty. I believe it's up to 1 year 'no questions asked money back return policy'. Their selection isn't too shabby either. Check costco.com as well. (I am a costco fanatic) :LOL:
 
Lower response time = less ghosting = less artifacts on screen.

When playing a fast paced FPS or viewing fast-paced sports on TV you will notice a "blur" around moving elements on TV's with high response time.

As for the "gaming mode" from my personal experience it just changes the response time on Samsung TV's to be lower, (also some minor changes in sound and color - possibly a worse (read: quicker) scaler method is used aswell), in does not make much of a difference, nothing infact from what i could see on screen performance wise, and its definately not something you "have to have" as a gamer.


Actually you're talking about two different things. Ghosting is something i havent seen on an LCD in years. Basically ghosting was initially used to describe the phenomena of an image or frame staying on the screen that had passed. Exactly like a burn in except with no lasting effects.

What you're talking about is image streaking where the pixels arent updating fast enough and leave literal streaks, outlines if you will, of fast moving objects. Easiest way this is noticed is when someone fires something like a rocket that is visable across your screen and you can see the path of the rocket trailing behind it when you shouldnt be able to. Or when you're moving down a corridor and you hit a lighted area and the lights bleed into the solid dark wall or floor.

Ghost is all but eliminated, and has been on most quality sets as well as monitors for the last few years. Streaking itself has been pretty much solved over the last couple of years. Basically a set with a response time of anywhere from 8-16ms isnt going to be streaking as long as the manufacturer hasnt lied. You'll have better odds with a Panasonic or Sony set with a 16ms response time then you will with some no-name set thats listing a 12ms response time.


LCD quality very much differs from manufacturer to manufacturer, so its not correct really to tell someone that if a set is 16ms white to black responce time, they're going to see streaking. Most sets list the grey to grey anyway since its more impressive. When buying a modern set, i think its safe to say that both these problems are basically worry free, and you should instead be looking at budget and the other pluses and minuses of the technologies.

The same goes for black levels.

DLPs are best for viewing at distance, you dont really want to use them sitting right in front of them as the picture loses clarity. Its the nature of the beast. They also have bulbs which can be a negative only when they have to be replaced (bulb life has greatly improved) and some do still have sync problems between the picture and the sound but im quite sure thats all but eliminated. DLP technology are also generally reserved for larger screens and likewise look best on larger screens, meaning you dont look at DLPs if you plan on getting something around 40" or less.

Plasmas suck down loads of power, can burn in, but look the best at all screen sizes, but the picture loses quality as well in a room that gets a lot of light and also cost the most. Generally it has excellent viewing angles.

LCDs are usually the best bang for buck. They have great picture quality in well lit rooms as well as dark rooms, they have fast enough responce times to please gamers (as mentioned) and generally dont cost an arm and a leg for a preferred size. Alot of people mention black levels as being a negative, so its really important to pay close attention to this when viewing demo sets or reading reviews because black levels do differ across manufacturers. Sets like the 2006 Panasonic 32" LCDs are generally regarded as having great black levels. We're a far cry from the "MY BLACK IS GREY!" problems of old with most sets these days. The biggest negatives of LCDs in my opinion is they still tend to wash out at wide angles and are still best viewed dead on and the cheaper sets have backlight bleeding which gives people the perception that the set (and thus all LCDs) cant display blacks.

Infact backlight bleeding is the number one cause for people being so bold in saying LCDs have bad blacks or cant display true blacks, which isnt true.
 
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Actually you're talking about two different things. Ghosting is something i havent seen on an LCD in years. Basically ghosting was initially used to describe the phenomena of an image or frame staying on the screen that had passed. Exactly like a burn in except with no lasting effects.

What you're talking about is image streaking where the pixels arent updating fast enough and leave literal streaks, outlines if you will, of fast moving objects. Easiest way this is noticed is when someone fires something like a rocket that is visable across your screen and you can see the path of the rocket trailing behind it when you shouldnt be able to. Or when you're moving down a corridor and you hit a lighted area and the lights bleed into the solid dark wall or floor.

Ghost is all but eliminated, and has been on most quality sets as well as monitors for the last few years. Streaking itself has been pretty much solved over the last couple of years. Basically a set with a response time of anywhere from 8-16ms isnt going to be streaking as long as the manufacturer hasnt lied. You'll have better odds with a Panasonic or Sony set with a 16ms response time then you will with some no-name set thats listing a 12ms response time.


LCD quality very much differs from manufacturer to manufacturer, so its not correct really to tell someone that if a set is 16ms white to black responce time, they're going to see streaking. Most sets list the grey to grey anyway since its more impressive. When buying a modern set, i think its safe to say that both these problems are basically worry free, and you should instead be looking at budget and the other pluses and minuses of the technologies.

The same goes for black levels.

DLPs are best for viewing at distance, you dont really want to use them sitting right in front of them as the picture loses clarity. Its the nature of the beast. They also have bulbs which can be a negative only when they have to be replaced (bulb life has greatly improved) and some do still have sync problems between the picture and the sound but im quite sure thats all but eliminated. DLP technology are also generally reserved for larger screens and likewise look best on larger screens, meaning you dont look at DLPs if you plan on getting something around 40" or less.

Plasmas suck down loads of power, can burn in, but look the best at all screen sizes, but the picture loses quality as well in a room that gets a lot of light and also cost the most. Generally it has excellent viewing angles.

LCDs are usually the best bang for buck. They have great picture quality in well lit rooms as well as dark rooms, they have fast enough responce times to please gamers (as mentioned) and generally dont cost an arm and a leg for a preferred size. Alot of people mention black levels as being a negative, so its really important to pay close attention to this when viewing demo sets or reading reviews because black levels do differ across manufacturers. Sets like the 2006 Panasonic 32" LCDs are generally regarded as having great black levels. We're a far cry from the "MY BLACK IS GREY!" problems of old with most sets these days. The biggest negatives of LCDs in my opinion is they still tend to wash out at wide angles and are still best viewed dead on and the cheaper sets have backlight bleeding which gives people the perception that the set (and thus all LCDs) cant display blacks.

Infact backlight bleeding is the number one cause for people being so bold in saying LCDs have bad blacks or cant display true blacks, which isnt true.

Great read. I would five rep if I knew how.
 
Plasmas suck down loads of power, can burn in, but look the best at all screen sizes, but the picture loses quality as well in a room that gets a lot of light and also cost the most. Generally it has excellent viewing angles.

Power usage is true for smaller TVs, once above 40", LCDs uses about the same amount of power as a similar sized plasma.

For example Sony's KDL-52X2000 (52") uses 330W, Panasonic's 50PV60 PDP uses 368W, Pioneers 5070 PDP (both 50") uses 343W.

The PDPs kills the LCDs in every performance metric except resolution.

Cheers
 
The biggest negatives of LCDs in my opinion is they still tend to wash out at wide angles and are still best viewed dead on and the cheaper sets have backlight bleeding which gives people the perception that the set (and thus all LCDs) cant display blacks.

Infact backlight bleeding is the number one cause for people being so bold in saying LCDs have bad blacks or cant display true blacks, which isnt true.
Not sure what you're trying to say here. That's the very definition of black level for nearly every technology.

Non-zero black levels on LCD, LCD RP, DLP, and SXRD are all due to "backlight bleeding". The imaging device can't completely block the light source. Even in plasma black level limitation can be described this way, as the energy source can't be completely shut off. Backlight bleeding is present everywhere. LCD's are just the worst at it.

There are very few LCDs that can block even close to the amount of light that the other technologies do. I still haven't seen one that looks any good in a dark room, but I haven't seen the best of the best.
 
Not sure what you're trying to say here. That's the very definition of black level for nearly every technology.

Non-zero black levels on LCD, LCD RP, DLP, and SXRD are all due to "backlight bleeding". The imaging device can't completely block the light source. Even in plasma black level limitation can be described this way, as the energy source can't be completely shut off. Backlight bleeding is present everywhere. LCD's are just the worst at it.

There are very few LCDs that can block even close to the amount of light that the other technologies do. I still haven't seen one that looks any good in a dark room, but I haven't seen the best of the best.

I dont see what was confusing. Some LCDs have problems with bleeding worse then others. If its a quality set then you're problably going to have a hard time noticing it and blacks will quite simply look black to you. Its gets ridiculous when people have to whip out a color wheel to show you all the different shades of blacks when normal people would see it as nitpicking. Newer quality LCD TVs do not have problems displaying blacks. I have never seen a new, properly reviewed and built LCD monitor or TV that gives me the perception that its glowing when its suppose to be a dark scene. Black simply looks black.
 
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CRT > DLP > LCD > PLASMA when it comes to gaming.

However seeing as CRTs are huge, and heavy most pass. DLP is generally the best overall, cost effective option when it comes to a gaming HDTV.

I agree completly.

In fact Plasmas from last year or this year are great for Gaming- there fast, no burn in unless you leave the screen on for like 2-3 hours on the same screen that is. So in a game like COD where a Radar is always in the bottom left corner, there will be no screen burn due to new technolgy like pixel movement.

I use my 42 in Samsung Plasma HPR4272 for PS3 and 360
For the Wii, I use a 32 inch LCD with component set at 480P. its a Toshiba Regza chip LCD- 32HL66 (canadian model)

I find the new lcds are great- there are some LCD's i see that dont display blacks very well though- and some that do it amazingly (sharp aquos new 1080 p lcds rock)
 
Newer quality LCD TVs do not have problems displaying blacks. I have never seen a new, properly reviewed and built LCD monitor or TV that gives me the perception that its glowing when its suppose to be a dark scene. Black simply looks black.
Personally I haven't seen a LCD TV that doesn't look like it's glowing in very dim lighting.

I suppose it's just personal taste then. Some people rave over colours in one display over the other, but I never saw the big deal there. Inky blacks are something I really want. Many people drool over monitors that I would never replace my CRT with due to blacks.

Do you ever watch your screen with the lights off? All the recent popular Dell monitors, for example, are woefully inadequate to me for entertainment (TV, movies, gaming) in the dark. For regular work in normal lighting, however, they're fine. I haven't seen the Sony X-Black monitors in the dark, however. I'm pretty curious about what they look like.
 
I agree completly.

You meant you disagree completely right? He said Plasma was the worst for gaming.

Btw I'm glad the thread revived, I still have a lot to learn about this subject. But no worries, I've got time till I get the money to buy one.
 
You meant you disagree completely right? He said Plasma was the worst for gaming.

Btw I'm glad the thread revived, I still have a lot to learn about this subject. But no worries, I've got time till I get the money to buy one.

Ohhh....what the lol

Well then i completly disagree- it should be the completly opposite.....

Worst----DLP------CRT------LCD--------1080pLCD/ Plasma

Now to me CRT's have great color obvisouly they do but Sometimes they just dont contrast to me. To me Plasma and very new LCD's that have 1080 p have lightening fast response time and display great blacks and contrasts very well. They look great for gaming.
 
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