HDTVs for Console Play

[crazygambit]

With the recent release of the PS3 I thought it was about time we had a thread about discussing which kind of HDTV goes best with it. Of course this also applies to the X360 (and in a lesser extend to the Wii I guess). Please keep the discussion exclusively about the performance of the TVs while playing console games. I already got permission from a mod to put the thread here (Vysez, thanks man) and would hate to see it moved.

The discussion could be centered in the technical aspects as well as "best bang for the buck" analysis, just not specific deals from vendors.

I think this could help a lot of people that want to upgrade their TVs like me, but just have no clue what's best out there. And it certainly doesn't help that most (if not all) reviews completely dismiss the gaming aspect of the TVs.

I'm also interested in the advantages (or lack thereof) of "gaming mode" in some TVs. For example this This Samsung LCD has such a mode. I also noticed in the features that it has an 8ms response time. I've seen some TVs with much higher response time and was wondering how it would affect a game.

Well that's it, discuss away.

 

[Dave]

I personally bought a CRT HDTV about a year ago. I'd just moved, was on a budget and it has worked out great. I'm very happy with 1080i and have no complaints with it. For a 30 inch I payed about $600. Of course now you can get a LCD for about that price.

Last weekend I had some family in town at my mothers house. Two of my younger brothers were there and so I took my 360, which they'd wanted to check out. No HD and there was clearly a difference in quality.

So my 2 cents is this: If you have the money, you're crazy not to go HD.

-Dave

 

[Teasy]

I have the Samsung LE32R74BDX LCD (quite similar to the one you posted by the looks of it), got it for £600 about 6 months ago. I'm extremely happy with it, lovely picture for both high definition and standard definition inputs and a very sexy design IMO But anyway on topic, gaming. I had heard mention of Samsung game mode but didn't know my TV had it, looking in the menu it does. So I think I'll have a try later with my 360. Apparently it modifies the colour, response time and speaker output.. I'm skeptical wether it'll make much difference, why wouldn't the TV always be using its max response time?..

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I also noticed in the features that it has an 8ms response time. I've seen some TVs with much higher response time and was wondering how it would affect a game.

Lower response time = less ghosting = less artifacts on screen.

When playing a fast paced FPS or viewing fast-paced sports on TV you will notice a "blur" around moving elements on TV's with high response time.

As for the "gaming mode" from my personal experience it just changes the response time on Samsung TV's to be lower, (also some minor changes in sound and color - possibly a worse (read: quicker) scaler method is used aswell), in does not make much of a difference, nothing infact from what i could see on screen performance wise, and its definately not something you "have to have" as a gamer.

 

[crazygambit]

I have the Samsung LE32R74BDX LCD (quite similar to the one you posted by the looks of it), got it for £600 about 6 months ago. I'm extremely happy with it, lovely picture for both high definition and standard definition inputs and a very sexy design IMO But anyway on topic, gaming. I had heard mention of Samsung game mode but didn't know my TV had it, looking in the menu it does. So I think I'll have a try later with my 360. Apparently it modifies the colour, response time and speaker output.. I'm skeptical wether it'll make much difference, why wouldn't the TV always be using its max response time?..

Awesome. Try it out and tell me if you notice any difference. I find it unbelievable that no professional reviewer ever bothers with that (unless I'm reading the wrong reviews of course).

I was also wondering if it would be better to go with Plasma or LCD for gaming exclusively. Or if a CRT might yield better results.

 

[crazygambit]

Lower response time = less ghosting = less artifacts on screen.

When playing a fast paced FPS or viewing fast-paced sports on TV you will notice a "blur" around moving elements on TV's with high response time.

Those were my thoughts on the issue. But I was wondering if it's noticeable enough to warrant spending more money on a set with lower response time.

As for the "gaming mode" from my personal experience it just changes the response time on Samsung TV's to be lower, (also some minor changes in sound and color - possibly a worse (read: quicker) scaler method is used aswell), in does not make much of a difference, nothing infact from what i could see on screen performance wise, and its definately not something you "have to have" as a gamer.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

The best bet will allways be CRT tv's (or DLPs) with response time set to virtually 0, unbeatable picture quality and native 1080i.

If you want something that looks good on the wall, picture quality wise, a plasma is a best bet, it also offers virtually response time. However, you need a big screen if you want native 720p, (i havent seen a native 720p on something smaller than a 50"). Why do you want native 720p\1080i\1080p as a gamer? Because your tv wont be bizzy upscaling\downscaling signals = less time to show stuff on screen (and possibly a worse picture)

However i would argue that this isnt an issue anymore, the scalers are of such high quality and work at such speeds, that i have personally never had a problem with it on my year old LCD (768p), nor my plasma, and im a pretty serious gamer.

Cost per inch wise, LCD's are the most expensive, but its not necessarly the best product. In terms of picture quality, a plasma has the advantage (altho high end LCD's have come close the last months).

Other good things about plasma's is that they accept SD signals better than LCD's. SD signals on LCD's (including 480p) often look digitialized (aka you see jaggies more easy and more "disturbance" in the picture) while plasmas have a way to smooth things over.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Those were my thoughts on the issue. But I was wondering if it's noticeable enough to warrant spending more money on a set with lower response time.

How serious gamer are you?

Im pretty competitive myself, and with 16ms vs 8ms i feel that the difference is like night and day. Its still playable, but i sometimes feel like the response time is affecting my experience as a gamer. I also dont like it when the soccerball (as you americans call it?) looks like it has the shape of an american fotball when watching sports on a old lcd.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Here is my checklists for LCD's:

Response time (has to be 8ms)
Contrast ratio (higher the better) - this tells you something about picture quality
Black\grey levels (higher the better - often called Black\Grey ratio) - tells you something about picture quality
Resolution (native 720p\1080p is better than having wierd resolutions like 768p over 720p)
Finally - the inputs - HDMI? Component? What?

 

[crazygambit]

Thanks a lot for the help Ostepop, I'd rep you... if I could.

The best bet will allways be CRT tv's (or DLPs) with response time set to virtually 0, unbeatable picture quality and native 1080i.
.

Do you have a link for a TV of this characteristics?. All I see nowadays are LCDs and Plasmas that I barely remember there are other kinds of TVs out there. Also will that TV work with the "quirkiness" of PS3's scaling? I don't wanna spend all that money on a fancy new HDTV and be stuck playing Resistance at 480p.

 

[Rockster]

LCD & Plasma suffer from burn-in, screen door effect, fade over time, and have relatively poor contrast ratios. CRT's have excellent picture quality, but generally limited in size, are big, heavy, and use lots of power. LCoS and DLP are the best options if you don't NEED the flatness of LCD or Plasma. My personal preference is for DLP, for example the Samsung HL-Sxx87w series. My brother has the 56" and in combination with his 360, the picture quality is amazing. And trust me, I am extremely picky.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

LCD & Plasma suffer from burn-in

LCD's cannot suffer from permantent burn-in, its impossible (CRT's however can).

Plasma's can, but with new plasma's its hard to actually achieve. So hard, that my Pioneer PDP-5070HD didnt have any burn in, after leaving windows on (connected tru windows media center) without any screensaver, tv on, for 2 days without tuching it.

It did have some image artifacts, for a while, but after running a little contrast fixing (really high contrast then really low) it dissapeared.

 

[bloodbob]

LCD's cannot suffer from permantent burn-in, its impossible (CRT's however can).

They can developed stuck pixel.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

They can developed stuck pixel.

Which is not the same as burn-in.

stuck pixels can be fixed.

Dead pixels however is worse..

 

[inefficient]

Right now I have a PS3 connected to a 40" KDL 40V4500 Sony Bravia and it works flawlessly paired to it with the HDMI cable. It costs in the $2500USD ball park. But I think its a great value for a 1080p screen with 8ms response great contrast and picture quality and excelent inputs. I would strongly recommend it to anyone for gaming.

1080p does make a big difference when you have a title that supports it. And I feel bad for anyone who has to play a 1080p game on a 720p screen. They are really getting the shaft.

I also have a Dell 2407 LCD but I have not tested if it can support 1080p from the PS3. I dont want to have to buy component cables for it. But I might try a HDMI to DVI adaptor in the future.

 

[Rangers]

All I know is I've been somewhat unhappy with my LCD. I recommend a plasma, or CRT if size is no concern, and you can even find a quality one now.

Dont get me wrong. LCD's are nice, I'm just not a huge fan of the technology, and the soft image qaulity it gives everything. LCD is a stopgap until we find something better that can fit the thin form factor.
________
Sunset Boulevard Residence 2 Prathumnak

 

[Mythos]

All I know is I've been somewhat unhappy with my LCD. I recommend a plasma, or CRT if size is no concern, and you can even find a quality one now.

Dont get me wrong. LCD's are nice, I'm just not a huge fan of the technology, and the soft image qaulity it gives everything. LCD is a stopgap until we find something better that can fit the thin form factor.

CRT is almost dead and plasma looks to be fading as well...the push is for LCD TV whether you like or not....in Europe LCD has taken the lead.

 

[Platon]

I have the Samsung LE32R74BDX LCD (quite similar to the one you posted by the looks of it), got it for £600 about 6 months ago. I'm extremely happy with it, lovely picture for both high definition and standard definition inputs and a very sexy design IMO But anyway on topic, gaming. I had heard mention of Samsung game mode but didn't know my TV had it, looking in the menu it does. So I think I'll have a try later with my 360. Apparently it modifies the colour, response time and speaker output.. I'm skeptical wether it'll make much difference, why wouldn't the TV always be using its max response time?..

As for the "gaming mode" from my personal experience it just changes the response time on Samsung TV's to be lower, (also some minor changes in sound and color - possibly a worse (read: quicker) scaler method is used aswell), in does not make much of a difference, nothing infact from what i could see on screen performance wise, and its definately not something you "have to have" as a gamer.

Since you guys have Samsungs I would like to ask you about the DNIe or however it is called, their tech about enhancing contrast as I understood it. I have heard that in some situations it really makes the picture worse, in movies that have dark scenes those sceenes becomme very dark and you can hardly see anything, in really bad cases, is that true and have you seen if there is something similar in games as well? as I understood it is not possible to switch it of and although it might generaly lead to better picture it is a concern if it screws up the image on some situations...

 

[silhouette]

LCD's cannot suffer from permantent burn-in, its impossible (CRT's however can).

Plasma's can, but with new plasma's its hard to actually achieve. So hard, that my Pioneer PDP-5070HD didnt have any burn in, after leaving windows on (connected tru windows media center) without any screensaver, tv on, for 2 days without tuching it.

It did have some image artifacts, for a while, but after running a little contrast fixing (really high contrast then really low) it dissapeared.

And you did not have a heart attack?

 

[fulcizombie]

I bought a Hitachi 32'' LD 7200(that's the european code name) http://www.ciao.co.uk/Hitachi_32LD7200__6322655 whit my 360 last Novemebr and i am still extremely impressed with it.No ghosting at all,even on the most "difficult games(like PGR3,RR6),amasing colours through component and generally great image quality at 720p.

Anyway i would go for the latest LCd from Philips(the best in the wordl but pretty expensive also,i would have bought one but for a model with similar specs to the Hitachi one i needed 3000 euros at that time while the Hitachi costed 1950 euros) and Panasonic(the 600 model).I don't think Hitachi has yet released a "true" newer model but i think that the LCD version of the 9700 is imminent.

Don't get me started on the Samsungs and the Sonys of this world....

Oh and something else:NEVER(and i do mean NEVER) compare the numerical numbers that companies give about things like contrast.Each company has a different "method" of making up these numbers,with samsung being the worst.Remember how the Atari Jaguar was....64 bits??