Have MS been digging themselves into a hole?

[Geeforcer]

True, but in Sony's case it would make sense to try and force the issue a bit, since they have the vested interest in this.

 

[Legend]

The format war is really irrelevent in this regard. Blu-Ray is the chosen format for PS3 games regardless of what happens with the next generation of video disc formats. If Blu-Ray becomes the next video disc format, they yay! Bonus Buger! If it doesn't, then oh darn you've got a GameCube now...

Say that to someone who buys more than just game media and finds out a year or two later that now they can only watch those movies on a ps3 because bluray is dead .

isn't that the same with X2 buyers? when you want to watch HD movies you can't because it isn't supported on X2 in the first place.

Sadly when the emphasis on 4 ports of the current gen, gaming took a step backwards and many of the sports and puzzle games that used to support 8-10 controllers on the Saturn and Playstation got cut down to 4 in the current gen. Pissed me and a lot of coworkers off...

with the internet you can hook up to boxes easily and be able to play those games and you can set it up in diffrent areas so that you don't have 7 or 8 people cluttered in front of a tv . For those with a 60 inch tv that may be fine in a big room . But for many its not something thats going to get much use like the dual tv .

first you say X2 can solve the issue of not supporting more than 4 controllers by issueing a multitab- yeah, right- (which Sony has been highly critisized for). now you say more than 4 is too much?
what ever you say does not dismiss the fact that PS3 supports more out-of-the box than X2 and that is a plus no matter how 'you' interpit it. and don't forget the 2 HDMI outputs of PS3 which also strengthens the added players No.

seriously now...

Eh, having an option to use or not to use something is never a bad thing. If price point is comparable, you can't possibly spin having more features as being "bad".

that is what I am trying to get through

 

[quest55720]

Based on current DVD player prices, the best bet is to wait until the HD format is chosen and gets widespread. You don't always have to be an early adopter, like (IIRC) DemoCoder

I can not agree more with this statement. It would be just foolish IMO to go out buy 100s of HD movies untill 1 side wins the HD format war. I can't wait till 1 side wins so I can start to buy HD movies.

 

[jvd]

isn't that the same with X2 buyers? when you want to watch HD movies you can't because it isn't supported on X2 in the first place.

no because the media you can buy dvds will work on both bluray drives and hd-dvd drives . dvd is and will be for the next few years the most supported optical movie format out . It took dvd almost 5 years to pass up vhs with new releases . It will be even logner with hd-dvd / bluray as they will be fighting with each other .

With the ps3 if you buy a bluray movie its just as likely that you can't play it on another source in 3 years as it is likely that you can . If bluray fails your stuck with bluray content that can only be watched on bluray ps3s .

first you say X2 can solve the issue of not supporting more than 4 controllers by issueing a multitab- yeah, right- (which Sony has been highly critisized for). now you say more than 4 is too much?
what ever you say does not dismiss the fact that PS3 supports more out-of-the box than X2 and that is a plus no matter how 'you' interpit it. and don't forget the 2 HDMI outputs of PS3 which also strengthens the added players No.

they can have a hub or do you think they can't ? I believe your not going to have much need for more than 4 players and it will be a rare case for it .

That being said with the x360 (and the ps3 and rev ) you should be able to set up teams with two boxes 4 players on each box and instead of squeezing all the info on one screen in one room or two screens in one room you can have the full graphical power of the system on two diffrent screens in two diffrent areas .

Do you disagree that it will be more likely for me to have 4 players at my place for madden and you to have 4 players at your place for madden and us playing 4vs 4 that way than it would be for you to have 7 people at your house all around 1 hdtv playing the game . Or all around 2 hdtvs that have to be almost next to each other playing the same game ?

Geeforcer wrote:
Eh, having an option to use or not to use something is never a bad thing. If price point is comparable, you can't possibly spin having more features as being "bad".


that is what I am trying to get through

if the price point is the same then no its not a bad thing . But thats assuming its the same price point . Do you guys have proof of this ?

 

[Mordecaii]

But nobody said that you had to buy movies on Blu-Ray jvd, if you buy a PS3 and tell yourself "I'm not buying HD movies until I see which format wins", then you can focus on buying DVD movies in the short term, and if Blu-Ray loses then you haven't lost anything. At least your games will have faster transfer rates and more data storage...

 

[quest55720]

The format war is really irrelevent in this regard. Blu-Ray is the chosen format for PS3 games regardless of what happens with the next generation of video disc formats. If Blu-Ray becomes the next video disc format, they yay! Bonus Buger! If it doesn't, then oh darn you've got a GameCube now...

Say that to someone who buys more than just game media and finds out a year or two later that now they can only watch those movies on a ps3 because bluray is dead .

isn't that the same with X2 buyers? when you want to watch HD movies you can't because it isn't supported on X2 in the first place.

Sadly when the emphasis on 4 ports of the current gen, gaming took a step backwards and many of the sports and puzzle games that used to support 8-10 controllers on the Saturn and Playstation got cut down to 4 in the current gen. Pissed me and a lot of coworkers off...

with the internet you can hook up to boxes easily and be able to play those games and you can set it up in diffrent areas so that you don't have 7 or 8 people cluttered in front of a tv . For those with a 60 inch tv that may be fine in a big room . But for many its not something thats going to get much use like the dual tv .

first you say X2 can solve the issue of not supporting more than 4 controllers by issueing a multitab- yeah, right- (which Sony has been highly critisized for). now you say more than 4 is too much?
what ever you say does not dismiss the fact that PS3 supports more out-of-the box than X2 and that is a plus no matter how 'you' interpit it. and don't forget the 2 HDMI outputs of PS3 which also strengthens the added players No.

seriously now...

Eh, having an option to use or not to use something is never a bad thing. If price point is comparable, you can't possibly spin having more features as being "bad".

that is what I am trying to get through

When I want to watch HD movies it will be on a stand alone player. No DVD of mine will ever go in my PS2 or Xbox. Only a fool would spend 2k or more on a TV + suround sound and most likely 30 bucks or more a movie to play it on a half ass player in a console. I would rather have sony rip out the blue ray drive to keep the cost at 299 or include a hard drive instead. I will get no use out the blue ray on the PS3 even if blue ray wins the war my blue ray movies will never ever go into the PS3.

 

[jvd]

But nobody said that you had to buy movies on Blu-Ray jvd, if you buy a PS3 and tell yourself "I'm not buying HD movies until I see which format wins", then you can focus on buying DVD movies in the short term, and if Blu-Ray loses then you haven't lost anything. At least your games will have faster transfer rates and more data storage...

but that is a feature of the system that sony is pushing . They are saying it supports the next gen optical format for movies and ms is using the old standard .

You can't have it both ways .

 

[Mordecaii]

Ok, so we've got your opinion quest55720, but what about the rest of the world? What about the teenagers who get a PS3 for Christmas and can't afford a standalone Blu-Ray player as well? What about families who only want to get the PS3 so they'll use it for the Blu-Ray player as well? You can downplay it all you want, but the fact that the PS1 played CD's helped sell it, and the fact that the PS2 played DVD's out of the box (no remote needed) helped sell it. IF Blu-Ray loses the HD optical format war, then the games will still have more room to work with along with faster transfer speeds. If Blue-Ray wins, then PS3 owners get a cheap Blu-Ray player. This greatly appeals to the "Wal-Mart crowd" (I'm not stereotyping, just trying to get across the point that a lot of people either can't or don't like to spend money on seperate pieces of machinery). The fact that every PS3 will have a Blu-Ray drive in it will be a huge asset for Sony in the HD format wars, as they will already have millions of players in people's homes. For this reason alone, I would think that the edge has to go to Blu-Ray for winning the battle anyway.

 

[Geeforcer]

It's very simple, really.

BR > DVD-9

Xbox360 = DVD-9
PS3 = BR

If Price_Xbox = Price_PS3
Then Storage_Xbox < Storage_PS3

 

[jonnyp]

The format war is really irrelevent in this regard. Blu-Ray is the chosen format for PS3 games regardless of what happens with the next generation of video disc formats. If Blu-Ray becomes the next video disc format, they yay! Bonus Buger! If it doesn't, then oh darn you've got a GameCube now...

Say that to someone who buys more than just game media and finds out a year or two later that now they can only watch those movies on a ps3 because bluray is dead .

isn't that the same with X2 buyers? when you want to watch HD movies you can't because it isn't supported on X2 in the first place.

Sadly when the emphasis on 4 ports of the current gen, gaming took a step backwards and many of the sports and puzzle games that used to support 8-10 controllers on the Saturn and Playstation got cut down to 4 in the current gen. Pissed me and a lot of coworkers off...

with the internet you can hook up to boxes easily and be able to play those games and you can set it up in diffrent areas so that you don't have 7 or 8 people cluttered in front of a tv . For those with a 60 inch tv that may be fine in a big room . But for many its not something thats going to get much use like the dual tv .

first you say X2 can solve the issue of not supporting more than 4 controllers by issueing a multitab- yeah, right- (which Sony has been highly critisized for). now you say more than 4 is too much?
what ever you say does not dismiss the fact that PS3 supports more out-of-the box than X2 and that is a plus no matter how 'you' interpit it. and don't forget the 2 HDMI outputs of PS3 which also strengthens the added players No.

seriously now...

Eh, having an option to use or not to use something is never a bad thing. If price point is comparable, you can't possibly spin having more features as being "bad".

that is what I am trying to get through

When I want to watch HD movies it will be on a stand alone player. No DVD of mine will ever go in my PS2 or Xbox. Only a fool would spend 2k or more on a TV + suround sound and most likely 30 bucks or more a movie to play it on a half ass player in a console. I would rather have sony rip out the blue ray drive to keep the cost at 299 or include a hard drive instead. I will get no use out the blue ray on the PS3 even if blue ray wins the war my blue ray movies will never ever go into the PS3.

And you speak for all future PS3 owners? I think most ordinairy people will be more than happy with the one in the PS3. Not everyone are hardcore AV-fanatics.

 

[jvd]

but the fact that the PS1 played CD's helped sell it, and the fact that the PS2 played DVD's out of the box (no remote needed) helped sell

with the ps1 that is not true . The saturn and sega cd , turbo graphics cd , neogeo cd did not help it sell the system . Not only that buy when the psone came out cds were out in force for almost 8 years

With the ps2 dvds were already out for a good 3-4 years and had a large library

Next year it may well be that the ps3 is the only bluray player and there are only a handfull of titles for bluray .

While at the end of this year there will be hd-dvd with a hand full of titles . So unlike with cd and dvd there will be a war between them and consumers may actually wait to see what happens .

BR > DVD-9

BR = HD-dvd

Xbox360 = DVD-9
PS3 = BR

If Price_Xbox = Price_PS3
Then Storage_Xbox < Storage_PS3

Yet you don't add in anything for the failure of bluray if it does fail . Which will affect the price of bluray drives and the apeal of it as you will plainly see few games using bluray format for storage

 

[quest55720]

Ok, so we've got your opinion quest55720, but what about the rest of the world? What about the teenagers who get a PS3 for Christmas and can't afford a standalone Blu-Ray player as well? What about families who only want to get the PS3 so they'll use it for the Blu-Ray player as well? You can downplay it all you want, but the fact that the PS1 played CD's helped sell it, and the fact that the PS2 played DVD's out of the box (no remote needed) helped sell it. IF Blu-Ray loses the HD optical format war, then the games will still have more room to work with along with faster transfer speeds. If Blue-Ray wins, then PS3 owners get a cheap Blu-Ray player. This greatly appeals to the "Wal-Mart crowd" (I'm not stereotyping, just trying to get across the point that a lot of people either can't or don't like to spend money on seperate pieces of machinery). The fact that every PS3 will have a Blu-Ray drive in it will be a huge asset for Sony in the HD format wars, as they will already have millions of players in people's homes. For this reason alone, I would think that the edge has to go to Blu-Ray for winning the battle anyway.

I am sure anyone who can afford a HD-TV will be able to afford a stand alone player. The wallmart crowd does not have HD-TVs yet so they won't be buying HD-movies. Also having the PS3 as your only movie player is just asking for a head acke. When the kids want to play a game and the parents want to watch a movie someone is not happy. The PS3 will not help in the format war as much as some might think. I bet 70% of the people who by a PS3 in the first year won't have a HD-TV. If you don't have a HD-TV BR movies are useless.

 

[quest55720]

It's very simple, really.

BR > DVD-9

Xbox360 = DVD-9
PS3 = BR

If Price_Xbox = Price_PS3
Then Storage_Xbox < Storage_PS3

For me it is really really simple.

DVD-9+Harddrive > BR

Custom soundtracks and downloadable content are a lot better IMO than a few extra cut seens in a RPG.

 

[scificube]

I thought blue-ray had already won as being the next standard.

Do you mean if blue-ray fails commercially or is this not the case?

 

[quest55720]

The format war is really irrelevent in this regard. Blu-Ray is the chosen format for PS3 games regardless of what happens with the next generation of video disc formats. If Blu-Ray becomes the next video disc format, they yay! Bonus Buger! If it doesn't, then oh darn you've got a GameCube now...

Say that to someone who buys more than just game media and finds out a year or two later that now they can only watch those movies on a ps3 because bluray is dead .

isn't that the same with X2 buyers? when you want to watch HD movies you can't because it isn't supported on X2 in the first place.

Sadly when the emphasis on 4 ports of the current gen, gaming took a step backwards and many of the sports and puzzle games that used to support 8-10 controllers on the Saturn and Playstation got cut down to 4 in the current gen. Pissed me and a lot of coworkers off...

with the internet you can hook up to boxes easily and be able to play those games and you can set it up in diffrent areas so that you don't have 7 or 8 people cluttered in front of a tv . For those with a 60 inch tv that may be fine in a big room . But for many its not something thats going to get much use like the dual tv .

first you say X2 can solve the issue of not supporting more than 4 controllers by issueing a multitab- yeah, right- (which Sony has been highly critisized for). now you say more than 4 is too much?
what ever you say does not dismiss the fact that PS3 supports more out-of-the box than X2 and that is a plus no matter how 'you' interpit it. and don't forget the 2 HDMI outputs of PS3 which also strengthens the added players No.

seriously now...

Eh, having an option to use or not to use something is never a bad thing. If price point is comparable, you can't possibly spin having more features as being "bad".

that is what I am trying to get through

When I want to watch HD movies it will be on a stand alone player. No DVD of mine will ever go in my PS2 or Xbox. Only a fool would spend 2k or more on a TV + suround sound and most likely 30 bucks or more a movie to play it on a half ass player in a console. I would rather have sony rip out the blue ray drive to keep the cost at 299 or include a hard drive instead. I will get no use out the blue ray on the PS3 even if blue ray wins the war my blue ray movies will never ever go into the PS3.

And you speak for all future PS3 owners? I think most ordinairy people will be more than happy with the one in the PS3. Not everyone are hardcore AV-fanatics.

I know a lot of people with a PS2 but do not know any who use it as thier only DVD player heck even use it as a DVD player.

 

[London Geezer]

I bet 70% of the people who by a PS3 in the first year won't have a HD-TV. If you don't have a HD-TV BR movies are useless.

You bet that based on what? Are you a market analyst?
If you don't have a HDTV any HD material is useless, so they won't even get a standaloe player.
The point is that when eventually people get a HDTV, they'll already have a PS3 to play *some* HD movies on it, without having to buy a standalone player straight away.
Eventually, many will buy a standalone player, like they did with PS2.

 

[jvd]

I thought blue-ray had already won as being the next standard?

Do mean if blue-ray fails commercially?

No hd-dvd is coming out this year . Most likely for the holiday quater . So bluray can still fail and hd-dvd can be the market leader .

 

[scificube]

I thought blue-ray had already won as being the next standard?

Do mean if blue-ray fails commercially?

No hd-dvd is coming out this year . Most likely for the holiday quater . So bluray can still fail and hd-dvd can be the market leader .

I'm sorry Jvd...I'm a bit behind on this.

Is it that blue-ray won as the standard but hd-dvd players are still coming from vendors...

or is it that blue-ray has not won out as the standard and hd-dvd players are coming out soon so that blue-ray may never win?

 

[London Geezer]

I'm sorry Jvd...I'm a bit behind on this.

Is it that blue-ray won as the standard but hd-dvd players are still coming from vendors...

or is it that blue-ray has not won out as the standard and hd-dvd players are coming out soon so that blue-ray may never win?

Neither of the 2 format "won" yet.
We could very well have 2 coexisting formats in the next generation, which will be ok is hybrid players come out.
Ps3 will only be able to play BlueRay discs though. Therefore, only the exclusives available to BlueRay, the movies from studios supporting both, but not HD-DVD exclusive content.

 

[quest55720]

I bet 70% of the people who by a PS3 in the first year won't have a HD-TV. If you don't have a HD-TV BR movies are useless.

You bet that based on what? Are you a market analyst?
If you don't have a HDTV any HD material is useless, so they won't even get a standaloe player.
The point is that when eventually people get a HDTV, they'll already have a PS3 to play *some* HD movies on it, without having to buy a standalone player straight away.
Eventually, many will buy a standalone player, like they did with PS2.

By the time most people get a HD-TV standalone players will be like 150 or less dollars like DVD players are now. The PS3 hype will be big and many many casual gamers will get one just like they did the PS2. Most of those casual players will not have a HD-TV.