Have MS been digging themselves into a hole?

[quest55720]

What strikes me is that with XBox 360 MS is pushing things like services, the "HD era," microtransactions, the "Gamer Guide," etcetera. These seem like things that a CEO or corporate executive would be impressed by, but that consumers (gamers) aren't exactly going to get excited over. Then you have Sony giving gamers exactly what it takes to get them excited. So, I think the relatively poor reaction to X360 is due to MS being boneheaded and not really understanding what gamers want. They should have put their best foot forward and not even shown the lackluster games (like PD0). If they had ONLY shown Gears of War I think the reaction would have been better.

Sony was in the easy position. Since they are not launching this year they did not have to have playable games at the show. Instead they can cherry pick Videos and demos that are jaw dropping. Since there are not any playable PS3s at the show no one knows for sure what is real time and what is not. MS launching this year has to have playable games at the show. So they could not have these super cherry picked videos and demos. If MS would of showed videos that looked like kill zone 3 people would jump all over them for being liars since the games on the floor don't look like that video.

Sony is briliant they trapped MS and made them look silly just like they did Sega. I'll say it again going against the sony hype machine is like facing Ali in his prime you will be taunted,humiliated and KOed in front of the world.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Huh?

I just watched G4TV (I'll take my beatings later), and they said that only the News outlets are hyping the PS3 because of their conference. They said all the gamers at E3 are interested in one thing.. the X360.

Thats because the X360 actually has playable demo's on the floor and the PS3 is vaporware.

I said before that MS bungled its handling of the X360 revealing, but the bottom line is that the E3 buzz is going to be about people actually being able to PLAY the X360, not about people watching pretty videos on a system that doesn't exist because the X360 has just as many pretty movies that don't exist for their own console... PLUS they have real playability.

 

[blakjedi]

Sony was in the easy position. Since they are not launching this year they did not have to have playable games at the show. Instead they can cherry pick Videos and demos that are jaw dropping. Since there are not any playable PS3s at the show no one knows for sure what is real time and what is not. MS launching this year has to have playable games at the show. So they could not have these super cherry picked videos and demos. If MS would of showed videos that looked like kill zone 3 people would jump all over them for being liars since the games on the floor don't look like that video.

Sony is briliant they trapped MS and made them look silly just like they did Sega. I'll say it again going against the sony hype machine is like facing Ali in his prime you will be taunted,humiliated and KOed in front of the world.

I posted this in another thread but it may be better placed in this one.

MS has everyone and their mother talking about how the XDKs at E3 are only 25%-33% of the final console's power (or whatever it is).

Now, I think this is beyond MS's ability to predict, but they seem to have a great reaction so far. They're showing games and impressing the socks off a lot of people. Then they hit them with the alpha kit PR and the wonder is put back in their minds.

Next, they attack Sony for not showing real-time games. It's totally PR and borders on the despicable, but like I said, it's PR.

It almost seems like MS's conference was a feint and Sony took the bait. But I don't think MS is that crafty. At any rate, their current plan seems to be working great.

Inane Dork this post should be its own thread. I have been thinking about the all the recent revelations regarding games like GoW, GR3, PDZ and the new info we've been receiving on the Xenos chip set ( I consider the combinantion edram and R500 a chipset) and you may actually be absolutely right. I think MS let SOny bring out their big guns andSony fired of everything they had not realizing that A) they have now set the bar for their games so high that they may disappoint their fanbase and that B) they have given MS even more time to shock and awe us later this year when they drop mindblowing experiences on us.

Everyone says that MS and SOny launch is six months apart but its no more than four (Dec - March). That said I feel like we still dont really know whats in Xenos and wont until the July Devkit is released. They seem to be holding everything close to their chest and Sony has shot its wad...

Like I said great post.

 

[randycat99]

Yep, that could be it...or just the opposite.

As for hdtv standards, 1080p is already in the spec, but only at 24 and 30 fps. The equipment just isn't widely available, nor is there any broadcaster support as of now...but it is in the standard. We can only hope that the standard is extended at some point in the future to include 60 fps. Otherwise it would be a shame to come all the way out to 1080, and not have 60p to go along with it.

That was a neat bit about some 1920 not being a true 1920. I hadn't heard of that, but it's a neat tidbit. That kind of makes it nice that there is a good lump of additional performance in the max spec that we can look forward to enjoying at some later point...

 

[BigGamer X]

that's just it. X2 is offering everything that is available 'now', how can it be called next gen then? Sony is looking ahead. what about 3 years from now? 5years? 7years? and yes, as with PS2, PS3 will still be going by the time the supposedly next installment arrives. also, just because it supports THE highest definition doesn't mean it won't work on 750p TVs. and X2 doesn't support ANY HD platforms. what are you going to use for HD content? everyday DVDs? how far is that going to take you?

and PS3 will use BD though it is still an unaprooved platform. how can you push the envilope otherwise if you keep on using everyday equipment? how did the everyday equipment get to be so wide spread if some one didn't push for it earlier?

Many see X2 as a high-end PC, while PS3 is truely a next-gen console. check with Gameindustry.biz, eurogamer.com, 1up and others.

Woah there mr anti MS, xbox360 sux. Obviously xbox360 games will be at least 720p, that right there makes it a HD platform. Quit being so ignorant.

Plus all X360 games will have anti aliasing. Sounds quite HD to me.

 

[Blooz]

I do think microsoft has dug themselves into a hole. A big reason why people like myself liked playing games on their xbox instead of their ps2's was that it was very apperent that the xbox had better graphical capabilities. I know people are going start saying that graphics arent everything(which i agree) but lets take a look at what developers do when they release games. regardless of how creative 3rd party games are in this current generation cross console games were heavily judged in terms of their visuals. The xbox had a clear advantage over the ps2, now it seems the roles will be reversed. developers such as EA, Ubisoft and Take Two will still release games across consoles and the X360 will eventually start to age in comparison to the ps3, it might not seem like a big deal now but history has shown it will matter. I also agree that the ps3 has come across much more as a gamers machine than the X360. I am a gamer, i could care less about velocitygirl, "the marketplace" and the circle of life - or whatever it's called. I can't help but draw huge comparisons between the X360 and the dreamcast. It was said earlier that the X360 is using what is available now and the ps3 is much more of a next gen console. I completely agree (and blu-ray isn't the only thing next gen about the ps3, lets not forget its main feature, cell, it is certainly nextgen) The same comments were said about the dreamcast when the ps2 was announced. MS has said in the past they there are about quality over quantity and games over hardware. the same thing was said about the dreamcast. people say MS will have the headstart, the same thing was said about sega, hell even the same guy who helped launched the dreamcast is doing the same thing for the X360. The big differnce this time around is that microsoft has a much more money than sega. I also think sony has an advantage with using the blu-ray format regardless of weather it is adopted as the next standard, and if it is adopted then its that much of an advantage. sure MS could realease an upgrade but as history has shown us MAJOR console hardware upgrades tend to end up in failure(no i am not talking about peripheral upgrades such as controllers.).with all that said i was impressed with some things i saw on the X360 such as G.O.W and the new sports games from EA and 2K sports. Even if the X360 seems to me like the next dreamcast im still going to give it a chance, hell I did have two dreamcasts.

 

[PC-Engine]

Does FFTSW at 640x480 look better than Doom 3 at 2400x1800? Yes.

Xbox 360 will look damn good at 720p...end of story.

 

[London Geezer]

Does FFTSW at 640x480 look better than Doom 3 at 2400x1800? Yes.

Xbox 360 will look damn good at 720p...end of story.

Yeah let's take 2 extremes and make statements based on that!

Unless X360 games look like FFTSW and PS3 games all look like Doom3, that statement is faulty, in this context.

Obviously FFTSW looks better than Doom3 even if Doom3 can run at 10 times the resolution.

But shortly we'll see that the difference between X360 and PS3 will be like the difference between Arnie (20 years ago) and Vin Diesel. Different origins, but still all muscle and no substance. (That last is my own being pessimist about the actual games in the next gen, everyone will be so hung up on the graphics that the games themselves will suffer. I hope i'm wrong)

 

[PC-Engine]

Just pointing out that 720 vs 1080 isn't going to be an issue.

 

[Evi]

But shortly we'll see that the difference between X360 and PS3 will be like the difference between Arnie (20 years ago) and Vin Diesel

So they'll be drastically different? Because Arnie (more like 25-30 years ago) would be like 3 Vin Diesel's.

 

[London Geezer]

But shortly we'll see that the difference between X360 and PS3 will be like the difference between Arnie (20 years ago) and Vin Diesel

So they'll be drastically different? Because Arnie (more like 25-30 years ago) would be like 3 Vin Diesel's.

... Errr...

Ok, let's say Sly and Vin. All muscle, no brains.

 

[Evi]

Ok, let's say Sly and Vin. All muscle, no brains.

There ya go.

 

[Tim]

But shortly we'll see that the difference between X360 and PS3 will be like the difference between Arnie (20 years ago) and Vin Diesel

So they'll be drastically different? Because Arnie (more like 25-30 years ago) would be like 3 Vin Diesel's.

... Errr...

Ok, let's say Sly and Vin. All muscle, no brains.

Actually Sly has shown some substance, he showed some reasonable acting in Copland and was not bad in Rocky either.

Maybe it just me being nostalgic, but this generation of action heroes are getting completely owned by the last gen.

 

[Evi]

Maybe it just me being nostalgic, but this generation of action heroes are getting completely owned by the last gen.

No, I agree with you. But I think we're swaying from the topic too much.

 

[_phil_]

Actually Sly has shown some substance, he showed some reasonable acting in Copland and was not bad in Rocky either.

Having some acting abilities doesn't say much about someone's brain.look at the US president . 8)

 

[Tim]

Actually Sly has shown some substance, he showed some reasonable acting in Copland and was not bad in Rocky either.

Having some acting abilities doesn't say much about someone's brain.look at the US president . 8)

I think we are very close at getting this thread locked (not a big loss, not much substance here anyway). I am getting a bit confused is Bush the PS3 or the Xbox360.

But back on topic, I really don't think digging them self to hole. Consoles are for gaming and in the gaming department the PS3 offers very little if anything over the Xbox360. The 360 might even beat the PS3 in IQ at 720P.

Another thing MS is going to have a rather big production cost advantage and they could force Sony into price war which MS is in much better position for than Sony.

I have no doubt that Sonu with the PS3 will be marked leader the next generation, but I would very suprised if MS does not do quite a bit better than they did with the Xbox.

 

[Legend]

To jvd : I really do not see your logic. It seems you just want to downplay PS3 for some odd reason because this is what you are doing in regards to some points:

-PS3 is set and ready out of the box, you have to buy additional kits to go wifi with X2;
you make it sound it is a plus for X2. well no, gamers do not want to buy additional kits to get basic functions out of their system ‘especially’ if the rest of the competition come ready out of the box. For example, Xbox not needing memory cards is a big plus in convenience.

-PS3 offers THE best resolution ever;
you say X2 is better because we don’t have higher res than what it offers. You say that knowing that PS3 offers ‘exactly’ what X2 does ‘and’ then some more.

-about HDD, ‘all’ three systems will have HDD (Rev may possibly have a fix internal memory yet still);
for some reason you make it sound like X2 is in an advantage for some reason. Why? All three have that. And IF and that’s a big ‘IF’ X2 has HDD as standard and PS3 doesn’t (emphasizing at IF) then what is the trouble of buying an HDD if you say there is no problem buying an extra kit to go wifi?

-PS3 supports 7 controllers Bluetooth, X2 4 RF;
you down play PS3 based on saying “it is too much� nobody is forcing you to always and only play 7 split screen. And in case you didn’t notice, there is no game in existence tht offers more than 4solit screen. The more players are for either online, multiple TVs (which PS3’s 2 HDMI outputs is great for), system link, LAN, or those games that do not split the screen like party games and some sport ones.
Also, controllers do not have to only mean DualShocks. You could count PSP, GunCon, steering wheel controllers, dance mats, Eyetoy, etc. as controllers as well.

I do not want intend to accuse you of being a MS fanboy or anti Sony, but you seem to contradict your self by praising a point for X2 and then downplaying the same exact concept for PS3.



personally, I am excited about all next-gen systems, it is just that needing to buy aditional components to get the full experience, and calling a system "HD era" while supporting the lowest in HD is just some of the turn offs that I hate. things like that don't scream "excitment! buy me now" to me and many other consumers.

finally, about pricing: Sony is in a much more advantage point than MS. Sony is the leading consumer electronics company in the world. that is what they do. most PS3 parts will be made in-house. heck even Cell and RSX is built by Sony. MS on the other hand is prely an OS and software solutions company. like with Xbox, they will have to make contracts with nearly every aspect of X2 to be built out side. this of course doens't meant PS3 will be less expensive, but it is apoint to think about. and even if one of them is $50 cheaper, I don't see that is a big difference. you are not buying a the same game here, you are buyng a whole new system

 

[blakjedi]

-PS3 offers THE best resolution ever;
you say X2 is better because we don’t have higher res than what it offers. You say that knowing that PS3 offers ‘exactly’ what X2 does ‘and’ then some more.

720P with 2AA or 4AA is MUCH better visually than 1080P if only because to SEE the difference between them visually you would need about a 100" screen and sit at about 8-9 to pick out the differences in resolution.

Techincally 1080P is better. Visually with high spec antialiased 720 P is better and "freer.

 

[one]

It is reported that Gears of War and PD0 are good in playable demo, but it seems NFS:MW is very buggy and freezes a lot. Or it maybe due to heat, as they run it from a devkit and there's a big fan in the box!
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/0505/19/news109.html

 

[Legend]

720P with 2AA or 4AA is MUCH better visually than 1080P if only because to SEE the difference between them visually you would need about a 100" screen and sit at about 8-9 to pick out the differences in resolution.

Techincally 1080P is better. Visually with high spec antialiased 720 P is better and "freer.

hmm, ok, I see your point. now, are we absolutely sure with out a doubt that a year from now when PS3 will arrive it won't support AA? because it seems a bit strange for Sony to go all the way with High-def resolution and then leaves out 750p as being better looking. it is like the Devil's promis (reminds me of Twisted Metal wish giving at the end

so we are basically saying if PS3 supports AA then there is no more use discussing X2's nor Rev's resolutions?