Hamas spiritual leader killed.

[Druga Runda]

The viewpoint that violence begets more retaliation and violence with respect to separatist movements is not historically accurate. It is only a recent development that such "rebellions" aren't put down. Human history is littered with examples of successful (but bloody) putdowns of resistance.

bloody in bold

why?

Well you have to exterminate them... kill all the palestinians or at least a half.
.. and send the rest to concentration camps... would be effective no doubt

 

[epicstruggle]

bloody in bold

why?

Well you have to exterminate them... kill all the palestinians or at least a half.
.. and send the rest to concentration camps... would be effective no doubt

It will never get that far. At most there are a few thousand _extremist_ palestinians who really should be put down by their own people as they are not furthering the palestinian cause.

later,
epic

 

[DemoCoder]

Not really. Ask yourself what percentage of the population Saddam killed to stay in power. It wasn't large.

(does anyone get that this post isn't about justification?) I just wanted to point out that most of human history is filled with despotic regimes ruling by force for MILLENIA. Popular uprisings were rare indeed. If a coup happened, it was normally an inside job.

The casualities taken by the Palestnians and Israelis in both Intifada's are minimal in proportion to their populations.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

If a coup happened, it was normally an inside job.

Et tu, Brute?

 

[epicstruggle]

Not really. Ask yourself what percentage of the population Saddam killed to stay in power. It wasn't large.

i guess large is dependent on who you are/ask. Going through a quick google search. Here are some _rough_ estimates

1,000,000 deaths from iran-iraq war and war on kurds. Started by saddam
100,000 deaths from 1st gulf war
500,000 bodies found in mass graves, could find hundreds of thousands more.

about 1.6-2 million dead/killed because of saddam. Their population is around 22+ million. So a little under 10%. Seems high to me.

later,
epic

 

[DemoCoder]

You can't count Iran and US invasion as "putting down" a popular uprising. I'd count the attacks on the Shiites and Kurds as "supression". As far as the mass graves, it's not clear that they're all from suppression. Supposedly a sizable number of them are Iranian soldiers too.

Still, that's far from killing "half". Britain subdued far larger colonial properties by killing far fewer. Now Belgium is a different story.

 

[PatrickL]

If you think that executions like that one will lead to peace in that region, we are definitely not leaving in the same world.

 

[Sabastian]

I don't think that this mans death will make any sort of difference in terms of the number of Israeli people murdered by terrorist suicide bombers. As it is I believe that these groups are conducting as many bombings as possible. In effect, the death of that moron Hamas terrorist leader is nothing but a plus for Israel. His replacement ought to be put out of business in the same manner along with his successor etc. I personally think that Israel ought to step up their efforts to take these individuals. It makes no difference to Israeli people other then to have these extremist reiterate their position that really has not changed. Before this idiot was dead their motive was to kill as many Israeli people as possible... oh but now .. now their motive is to kill as many Israeli people as possible...

I say kill his successor and or anyone else that steps up to the plate as well.

 

[Ty]

I don't think that this mans death will make any sort of difference in terms of the number of Israeli people murdered by terrorist suicide bombers. As it is I believe that these groups are conducting as many bombings as possible.

That's a good point. It's not as if pre this assassignation they were only partly against Israel.

But this could inspire more candidates to volunteer themselves for attacks though. And therefore with more candidates, you can carry out more attacks.

 

[epicstruggle]

suicide bomber might be killed as they try to cross the border. Get rid of some of them this way is a good thing. Yes, they will now have more SBs then they can shake a stick at. Lets see what happens from this.

later,
epic

 

[Clashman]

That's a good point. It's not as if pre this assassignation they were only partly against Israel.

Well, the Egyptian government had actually been making attempts at negotiating a ceasefire, which they claim had been making progress. What do you think the chances of that happening are now?

But this could inspire more candidates to volunteer themselves for attacks though.

I don't see how that is anything but a certainty.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Well, the Egyptian government had actually been making attempts at negotiating a ceasefire, which they claim had been making progress. What do you think the chances of that happening are now?

About the same chance as every other cease-fire and "peace agreement" has had for any lasting succes over the past decade. There's usually some optimism right up until the point when the next suicide bomb explodes in Israel.

But this could inspire more candidates to volunteer themselves for attacks though.

I don't see how that is anything but a certainty.

I also don't see how it's anything but a certainty that:

1) Suicide attacks would sitll continue whether he was killed or not.
2) That those contemplating "taking his place" pretty much know that Isreal will have no qualms about killing him too. Kinda makes the job a bit less attractive. Because of all the talk of "being willing martyrs", I see more of these terrorist leaders running and hiding from it than accepting it.

 

[Clashman]

About the same chance as every other cease-fire and "peace agreement" has had for any lasting succes over the past decade. There's usually some optimism right up until the point when the next suicide bomb explodes in Israel.

Or when Israel rockets an apartment building, killing 15 children just hours after the cease-fire was declared?

I also don't see how it's anything but a certainty that:

1) Suicide attacks would sitll continue whether he was killed or not.

Yeah, but there's a big difference between 20 suicide attacks in a year and 50.

2) That those contemplating "taking his place" pretty much know that Isreal will have no qualms about killing him too. Kinda makes the job a bit less attractive. Because of all the talk of "being willing martyrs", I see more of these terrorist leaders running and hiding from it than accepting it.

Gimme a break. Israel has killed close to 3,000 Palestinian civilians in the past year, many of who's worst offenses were throwing stones, looking funny at a checkpoint soldier, living near a militant, etc. Everyone in Palestine knows about this. Israel has engaged in targeted, extrajudicial killings for years. If you think this will deter people who already know they're targeted to die, either at Israel's hand or by suicide bomb, you're nuttier than they are.

 

[I.S.T.]

Gimme a break. Israel has killed close to 3,000 Palestinian civilians in the past year, many of who's worst offenses were throwing stones,

Throwing stones at tanks and people with big guns. That isn't the brightest thing in the world. Also, how big were these "stones"? A good sized stone can kill a guy, if it gets his head.

 

[Legion]

Gimme a break. Israel has killed close to 3,000 Palestinian civilians in the past year, many of who's worst offenses were throwing stones, looking funny at a checkpoint soldier, living near a militant, etc. Everyone in Palestine knows about this. Israel has engaged in targeted, extrajudicial killings for years. If you think this will deter people who already know they're targeted to die, either at Israel's hand or by suicide bomb, you're nuttier than they are.

Of course they all know. Just like they all know Jenin Jenin is an accurate portrayal of the alledged massacre

 

[Clashman]

Throwing stones at tanks and people with big guns. That isn't the brightest thing in the world. Also, how big were these "stones"? A good sized stone can kill a guy, if it gets his head.

When you're in a tank? And it's coming from a 9 year old? I don't think so.

 

[I.S.T.]

Note that I used people with guns too. That means soldiers. When I was nine, I wouldn't have thrown a rock at a soldier and expect to get away with it. I think shooting people is a bit over reacting, but when a guy has a gun and you throw something at him in an attempt to hurt him, you should expect to be shot.

 

[Clashman]

Well, how about if you're part of an illegally occupying army who's killed close to 3,000 innocent people over the course of 3 years, maybe you should feel lucky when all that's thrown your way are stones?

 

[epicstruggle]

Well, how about if you're part of an illegally occupying army who's killed close to 3,000 innocent people over the course of 3 years, maybe you should feel lucky when all that's thrown your way are stones?

natural selection at its best. if your idea of a good time is throwing stones at soldiers, well your ripe to be picked off.

later,
epic

 

[Legion]

Well, how about if you're part of an illegally occupying army who's killed close to 3,000 innocent people over the course of 3 years, maybe you should feel lucky when all that's thrown your way are stones?

First of all can you please stop regurgitating propaganda Clashman?

I have carried this conversation on with you before.

You haven't ever established these terroritories as illegally occupied.
1. Show me a legal UNISEC document that calls them illegally occupied
2. Resolution 242 and 338 do not refer to them as illegally occupied. They have been called disputed terroritories as there is not a single way to establish palestinian ownership.


Can you please provide me a single reputable website that explains how those death tolls are tallied? Can you likewise explain why the 1000 or so israelis who have died doesn't see to fit with the massacres in Hebron, Samaria and other parts of the ME and Africa of jewish populations?