Halo 3 engine upgrade analysis (for ODST)

[PhilB]

I also hope the character models look a lot better. From what I've seen of the game though, it looks better in some aspects (I'm in love with lighting and colors). I think AI put it the best where the improved IQ comes from.

 

[(((interference)))]

Has anyone noticed the cool new smoke effects in this version of the engine?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I also always suspected they were just ported their Xbox engine over to 360 made a few enhancements and used it for DOA4 and NG2.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, after all the Halo 3 engine and some of it's art assets also had it's foundation on the original Xbox. Although they also had more time to add in some next gen features.

Regards,
SB

 

[(((interference)))]

I wouldn't be at all surprised, after all the Halo 3 engine and some of it's art assets also had it's foundation on the original Xbox. Although they also had more time to add in some next gen features.

Regards,
SB

Yea (apparently the Halo 3 engine has some of its codebase going back to the Marathon days) It's interesting as both Halo 3 was also criticised for not demonstrating a clear generation leap (like other titles did) and somewhat looking like 'Halo 2.5' (partly due to poor art design on Bungie's part)

 

[big4ared]

Yea (apparently the Halo 3 engine has some of its codebase going back to the Marathon days) It's interesting as both Halo 3 was also criticised for not demonstrating a clear generation leap (like other titles did) and somewhat looking like 'Halo 2.5' (partly due to poor art design on Bungie's part)

It's amazing how much code lingers from one project to another. I heard from a friend of mine at EA that NBA Live still has some code that was written for the Sega Genesis.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yea (apparently the Halo 3 engine has some of its codebase going back to the Marathon days) It's interesting as both Halo 3 was also criticised for not demonstrating a clear generation leap (like other titles did) and somewhat looking like 'Halo 2.5' (partly due to poor art design on Bungie's part)

I don't think it was so much due to poor art design as just a lack of time. They did say that certain levels basically used the art that was originally developed for the Xbox, and they didn't have the time or resources to update it properly before Halo 3 shipped.

It's one of the reasons the art quality is so variable in the game.

I expect Reach should have proper next gen engine and art assets throughout. And while ODST will be using the same basic engine as Halo 3, the art design should be much better.

Regards,
SB

 

[Aeoniss]

Has anyone noticed the cool new smoke effects in this version of the engine?

Yea I have. The engine isn't "Bad" looking it just isn't... Up to snuff compared to others. Given that many gamers expected Halo to be the pinnacle of Xbox technology (as Halo 1 and 2 were) it was sorta underwhelming..

But yea, Sandbox environment, new visuals.. Looking good.

 

[Rangers]

It's amazing how much code lingers from one project to another. I heard from a friend of mine at EA that NBA Live still has some code that was written for the Sega Genesis.

Not nearly as bad, but Call Of Duty today still has roots in the Quake 3 engine.

 

[zed]

Originally Posted by big4ared
It's amazing how much code lingers from one project to another. I heard from a friend of mine at EA that NBA Live still has some code that was written for the Sega Genesis.

why shouldnt it
basically games go,
-accept input from user
-act on input
-let AI do its thing(physic lib here perhaps)
-display result

i.e. grphically it looks much better but ander the hood its the same old shit, maths dot change

 

[Acert93]

I find it interesting that games like ODST can show the edges of objects and it would seem like there would be/should be approaches to significantly diminish edge aliasing without hurting IQ significantly or causing a huge performance impact. I would guess maybe Crackdown used some of post-process with an outline vector maybe that was softened via software that would mask aliasing (i.e. artistic approach).

Maybe worth a different thread (or not), it just seems that if MSAA is too expensive that if you can identify your edges you could soften the aliasing, even if by very subtle blurring (ouch) but some other sort of techniques could maybe product good results, esp. if worked into the design on the artistic front?

 

[zed]

That edge detection method is not a true one I guess theyre going something like
color = pow( 1.1 - dot( normal, viewdirection ), 8.0 );

if youre gonna do AA just on the edges, IMO its not worth it. Memory requirements are gonna be the same + I doubt it will be very much faster (It will be faster if you done it on the CPU though due to it having better branching capabilities, thus for a software engine yes edge AA might be a nice way to go ) but on the GPU I doubt there will be much if any performance improvements

 

[Nesh]

It's amazing how much code lingers from one project to another. I heard from a friend of mine at EA that NBA Live still has some code that was written for the Sega Genesis.

For what???

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Maybe worth a different thread (or not), it just seems that if MSAA is too expensive that if you can identify your edges you could soften the aliasing, even if by very subtle blurring (ouch) but some other sort of techniques could maybe product good results, esp. if worked into the design on the artistic front?

ATI graphics cards do a form of this with their Edge Detect AA modes, but it's computationally expensive. The results however look fantastic. BTW - this is with regards to detecting visible edges and applying AA. Not with respect to simple blurring.

Regards,
SB

 

[MJP]

Maybe worth a different thread (or not), it just seems that if MSAA is too expensive that if you can identify your edges you could soften the aliasing, even if by very subtle blurring (ouch) but some other sort of techniques could maybe product good results, esp. if worked into the design on the artistic front?

A few games have already used the edge detect + blur technique...Crysis is the one that immediately comes to mind.

 

[brain_stew]

A few games have already used the edge detect + blur technique...Crysis is the one that immediately comes to mind.

Call of Juarez is another game with a decent implementation of it as well. It worked really well in Crysis as the performance hit was basically nil but it really helped deal with the severe aliasing from the foliage which standard msaa did nothing about.

 

[helvetica bold]

Check this out! Bungie taking about the ODST graphic enhancements from PAX!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RfXCY8UMYk
Parallax Mapping to make richer buildings
Ability to "fade" effects
Full Screen effects Shader system
Says springboard for future projects.

 

[Kasersky]

they need to improve anisotropic filtering. most assets have very high texture detail you will notice it when you get really close up but look aggressively worse from two meters away. i also wished the engine would retain character facial textures detail better as well.

 

[Aeoniss]

The textures on the ground during the initial "Dutch" level in that park were atrocious.

Then again I am playing ODST on a 16x19in 1080p screen.. So that probably blows things a bit out of proportion..

 

[Kasersky]

The textures on the ground during the initial "Dutch" level in that park were atrocious.

Then again I am playing ODST on a 16x19in 1080p screen.. So that probably blows things a bit out of proportion..

ya i just checked it out the level "uplift reserve" the ground textures are pretty high detail (look straight down), like i said its because halo3's engine has poor anisotropic filtering

 

[Iron Tiger]

Check this out! Bungie taking about the ODST graphic enhancements from PAX!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RfXCY8UMYk
Parallax Mapping to make richer buildings

It sounds like he's actually talking about interior mapping.