[H] Benchmarking Future Ed.

[Reverend]

. Is there any word on the site that it is HIV related like nvnews or rage3d?

OMG... I didn't know that about NVNews and Rage3D. Guess I'll need to be more careful when I visit them next.

 

[nelg]

HIVnews or RageVD

 

[digitalwanderer]

. Is there any word on the site that it is HIV related like nvnews or rage3d?

OMG... I didn't know that about NVNews and Rage3D. Guess I'll need to be more careful when I visit them next.

Please tell me I can't catch it by just posting at one of them, 'cause I tend to post a bit at both!

 

[Ichneumon]

HIVnews or RageVD

LMAO... Ph33R next year's april fools at Rage3D hahahahahaha


ok, probably not, but an enormously humorous image came to mind for an april fools spoof for rage3d after reading that...

 

[micron]

HIVnews or RageVD

LMAO... Ph33R next year's april fools at Rage3D hahahahahaha


ok, probably not, but an enormously humorous image came to mind for an april fools spoof for rage3d after reading that...

Yea, I freaked last april fools......thanx Eric

 

[Borsti]

Lars, HIV is not the same as IHV (which is what you meant) in English.

LOL! I meant IHV for sure!



Lars

 

[Doomtrooper]

@Doomtrooper

I see you know nothing about the history of RIVA Station. Is there any word on the site that it is HIV related like nvnews or rage3d?

I know that it was a very popular Nvidia fan site for years , and visited your site when I did own those products.

I started the site with a german language FAQ for the ELSA Victory Erazor (RIVA 128) next to my personal homepage. Not because I was a Fan of ELSA or NVIDIA but because of many things simply did´nt work with that card. I added some news and then wanted so separate it from my personal HP. I did´nt have any money to buy other cards at that time and coded websites in my free time to get money to pay the bandwith for a own domain. I got almost NO support from any HIVs at that time aside of from german PR people at ASUS and ELSA. At that time german PR people did not know anything about hardware websites so it was very tough to run a site in germany at that time.

I didn't say it was easy Borsti, but looking at your articles in the early days shows you were catered to the Nvidia crowd.
Doesn't make it a bad thing, but does influence 'reviews'.

To make it clear: I never got any special support from NVIDIA at all. I also never cared about. My first contact with NVIDIA was 2 years after I started the site when I posted benchmark numbers of leaked Detonator drivers and offered the drivers for download. The first card sample from NVIDIA I received for a review was a GeForce 256 DDR!

A new domain name would be in order IMO

Your imputation that I tried to change the image of the site when I started to work for Tom is wrong as well as the other imputations in your post. You may not like me and/or THG. That´s your problem. But please stop posting any imputations about things you don´t seem to know.

Well your reviews diversified alot after you started working there...approx around the 8500 launch.
You are one of the few sites that claimed the 5800 Ultra the new 'King' meanwhile Nvidia is completley removing that particular card from their webpage...it doesn't exist.
What ever happend to screen shots showing IQ doing graphic card reviews ?? We are talking Graphic Cards here, not Graph Cards.

A year ago I emailed you about your comments on the Parhelia review:

Hi,

there are some investigations on what ATi is doing in their drivers. ATI
does not filter all textures. Many textures are not filtered at all. They do
not have Anisotropic filtering in the "classic" way. R8500 is very fast with
Anisotropic, but it´s no "real" Anisotroppic. That´s why I did not use it in
the Parhelia review... it´s worth an own article and comparsion and I have
to be very carefully! You can mind that ATI and NVIDIA do only tell us what
they want us to know... so it´s very hard to get those informations. And
it´s very complicated to explain (and compare)

If I used it... I would have start a discussion about ATI... but I wanted to
show what Parhelia can do... I hope you see my point.

Lars

Lars "Borsti" Weinand

- Editor In Chief & Founder - RIVA Station
http://www.rivastation.com
http://www.rivastation.com/index_e.htm (English)

- Senior Editor, Graphics - Tom's Hardware Guide
http://www.tomshardware.com

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1382&start=0

you stated you were going to leave out the 8500 Anisotropic filtering numbers because it was too 'controversial' and wasn't 'true' anisotropic filtering. You were only going to use it if ATI told you exactly what they were doing
Yet you happily benchmarked away with your 5800 review using Bilinear AF, putting up your fancy graphs show it beating a 9700 which was doing trilinear.


How about commenting on the title of this review, and how wrong you were (remember your article you just wrote then stringing people along in your conclusions)

ATi Radeon 9700 PRO -
Pretender To The Throne

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/index.html

I find the closing comments in this article very funny, I'm sorry..you write a article about the public getting played by IHVs when really the hyprocrisy of it all is you got played, recomending a cancelled card that people can't even buy, or find on Nvidias webpage
The mis-information starts with the review sites then spreads throughout the forums.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030127/geforce_fx-29.html

Your comments from this review:

NVIDIA takes the crown! No question about it

Crown of what...Pr power ?? With image quality comparisons below with obvious lod bias problems, and poor filterting. No mention of that in your review, Unlike the excellent review below...I'm sorry, take some critique and use image quality in your 'future' crownings. Setting the sliders to 2X FSAA on both cards doesn't mean the output is the same, especially Intellisample vs. Smoothvision II.

http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/gffx5800u/gffx_5.htm

Example:

232 fps Great IQ
241 fps Poor IQ

Tomshardware claims the poor IQ card ' the new king' based soley on FPS. So IMO you have done a poor job on a 'apples to apples' comparison.

Edit: I might add that all the review sites were played, besides this one regearding slider settings in the old Nvidia control panel...and I wasn't fooled for a minute

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4051&start=0

 

[nelg]

Hey Doomtrooper check out my new sig.

 

[Doomtrooper]

 

[RussSchultz]

And we've chased another one away.

Congrats, guys.

 

[whql]

And we've chased another one away.

Congrats, guys.

You think that DoomTrooper's post is without merit then?

 

[Doomtrooper]

Russ thinks we should all be weasels, nothing in the post above was rude, I stated facts provided with links.

I kiss ass to no one

 

[WaltC]

And we've chased another one away.

Congrats, guys.

Who was the first "one"?....*chuckle*

I dunno', Russ, it seems to me that the "ones" being "chased" have as much room to respond to comments as those doing the "chasing" have to make them. Where's the problem?

If the arguments seem one sided perhaps that's because only one side is making any points...? Just a thought...

I'm kind of old fashioned, I guess, and think that a "forum" is not a place for grandstanding, not a platform for one-sided preaching to the masses, but rather a place for discussion, dialogue, and debate. Quoting someone's own published remarks as a rebuttal to a recently stated position they've taken which runs contrary to those remarks is a tried and true debating tactic used almost universally--and generally accepted as legitimate everywhere. Underhanded? I think not. It's merely a very convincing way of saying and asking "This is what you said before, in your own words, and it seems contrary to your current position as stated here. Which remarks do you mean to retract, or do you have a justification for both positions?"--and that sort of thing.

I don't believe in the concept of "celebrity." An idea is either good or bad, justifiable or not, based on its substance and the person having the idea is irrelevant. IE, I'm not one for pandering. Example: if George Bush tells me he thinks a space shuttle with one wing is dandy idea but a wino named Buster in the alley tells me he'd prefer a shuttle with two, Bush's celebrity is not going to keep me from from ridiculing Bush and praising the wino...

By the same token, I do not view web masters as universally incompetent, either... It's just that their ideas are not valid simply because they are published on a web page--they must be valid intrinsically to hold up. Right? Good and honest web masters engage in debate on the substance of their ideas and are simply not afraid of picking up a new one here and there along the way. Other web masters are "chased away" when faced with their own opinions and asked to justify them. What does this tell us of their opinions as they originally published them? A pertinent question, I think.

 

[RussSchultz]

Russ thinks we should all be weasels, nothing in the post above was rude, I stated facts provided with links.

I kiss ass to no one

No, I think you shouldn't be a weasel. At least not a rabid one.

The shark feeding frenzy attitude and congratulating each other for 'schooling' somebody is just plain juvenile.

check out my new sig.
_________________
We are talking Graphic Cards here, not Graph Cards.

Dogging non-english speakers for mispellings and/or misuse of the language is pure class.

Bush's celebrity is not going to keep me from from ridiculing Bush and praising the wino

And that is the problem. What purpose is there in ridiculing people, beyond attempting to shame them into not expressing their viewpoints?

You claim to be all about free expression of ideas, but the oppresiveness of the gang tactics here (whether or not you realise it) is counter productive to that free expression of ideas, unless, apparently, they coincide with your own.

 

[Pete]

check out my new sig.
_________________
We are talking Graphic Cards here, not Graph Cards.

Dogging non-english speakers for mispellings and/or misuse of the language is pure class.

Mmmm, classy. *drool*

Seriously, I think that was an attack on judging video cards solely based on benchmark numbers, without taking into account IQ.

I agree with Russ' dislike of the "Oh, snap, you just got schooled, boyee!" chorus in some threads. Lars seems to be fairly reasonable when he posts here, so, though I don't agree with some of his articles, I try to keep the debate civilized.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Pete/Russ what is your purpose here, if you have a rebuttal from my post, makes some valid statements, I couldn't care less about your semantics.

Legitimate issues were posted, I'm sick of the defensive attitude around obvious flaws in reviewing, and it doesn't get better by walking on 'egg shells' when a reviewers shows up.

 

[RussSchultz]

What's wrong, Doom? Don't like people ganging up on you and critiqueing your "review reviewing" style?

I'm sick of the defensive attitude around obvious flaws in discourse around here, and it doesn't get better by walking on 'egg shells' when somebody's acting out of line.

Seriously, though. I respect and somewhat agree with your views on Kyle, Lars, et al. However, I don't think that Beyond3d is the right place to sit around and bitch about them. I think YOUR board is the right place for you to soapbox from, or their board, but not here.

Of course, I'm just somebody who likes polite discourse about technology, not pages and pages of snarky gossip.

By the way, did you hear what John did? How scandelous! I've never seen such behavior...

 

[Borsti]

And we've chased another one away.

Congrats, guys.

It´s not that easy to chase me away I´m always interrested in peoples opinions... even if they are prejudiced like Dooms. That´s the reason why I visit this forum as well as others. I made my point. If he still wants to see it in another way, well, that´s his choice.

Lars

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

And we've chased another one away.

Congrats, guys.

It´s not that easy to chase me away I´m always interrested in peoples opinions... even if they are prejudiced like Dooms. That´s the reason why I visit this forum as well as others. I made my point. If he still wants to see it in another way, well, that´s his choice.

Lars

Welcome to Beyond3D Mr Lars (sorry, I don't know your surname)

I have a bad habbit of spanking good boys.

I hope you can stay around longer than 10 days. Some people have a habbit of disappearing, it isn't because of me either. Even though sometimes I can be a little bit of a porn enthusiast.

Try not to take most things too seriously, you will find a majority of us are not out to get you or Kyle.
I do not consider Kyle or yourself as bad people even if I disagree with your opinions.

Have a good stay and I hope all of us can have some nice discussions.

 

[CorwinB]

What Russ said.