GTA V announced [2011] , [2021-11-11]

[poopypoo]

Well, the Sopranos never excited me, so there you go. I guess some people just have terrible taste. I mean, you asked for it, you got it. Get over yourself.

DrJay: You liked the characters of RDR (flat, totally one-dimensional cardboard archetypes)... but not the ending!? I mean... how many games

Spoiler

have the protagonist dying in the end only to have you take over as his son..?

...shit, that part was even unusual by fiction standards.

 

[-tkf-]

Good thing that everybody has an opinion, the world would be boring if we just agreed on everything.

I find the story in GTA5 to be somewhat simple and not very deep, emotional etc. But the dialogue is funny and well written, the characters are perfect and perfect for each other, and it's lots of fun. And the thick sarcasm and big middle finger to our modern society is just perfect for a game like this. And i tend to agree with it

But this game is made for young people, a complex history with to much subtlety would be lost on many of those that play this game. Last night when i was doing a bit of online play (yes it worked) i heard voices that sounded way to young to be playing this game

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Well, the Sopranos never excited me, so there you go. I guess some people just have terrible taste. I mean, you asked for it, you got it. Get over yourself.

Ha. You're a fruitcake aren't you? Sorry, I'll side with the show that won 21 Emmy Awards and 5 Golden Globes over you and your opinion which you apparently can't even support by providing an example of a game that you believe succeeds in story telling.

DrJay: You liked the characters of RDR (flat, totally one-dimensional cardboard archetypes)... but not the ending!? I mean... how many games

Spoiler

have the protagonist dying in the end only to have you take over as his son..?

...shit, that part was even unusual by fiction standards.

Ahhh. Yet another dichotomous example. You bash RDR for having archetypal cardboard characters, but then also bash the ending which you admit was "unusual", as in, unique.

So if a game follows tried and true archetypes, you hate it. If a game stretches into new territory and does something new, you hate it.

But I should get over myself?

 

[DrJay24]

Well, the Sopranos never excited me, so there you go. I guess some people just have terrible taste. I mean, you asked for it, you got it. Get over yourself.

DrJay: You liked the characters of RDR (flat, totally one-dimensional cardboard archetypes)... but not the ending!? I mean... how many games

Spoiler

have the protagonist dying in the end only to have you take over as his son..?

...shit, that part was even unusual by fiction standards.

I think you mis-read me, I didn't say that at all.

 

[Yemeth]

I can't believe anybody is bashing what is essentially three different stories woven into one. I'm wondering if the conclusion sucks or falls on its face or something because right now it's damn enthralling.

As far as not having complete access to everything from the first second, what don't you have access to? Sure, a couple weapons are locked, but the whole map is accessible.

Besides, if you want to screw around and play a game with a lame story but fun chaos, they do make Saints Row for that.

I guess I don't understand people 1) Complaining about the quality of the story and then 2) Simultaneously wishing there was no story at all and it was just a sandbox.

Seems counter intuitive to me.

I am not bashing the fact that they had the idea of interweaving stories, I just think that the story telling in video games is so bad that average ones get praised left and right. I mean, if someone like David Cage (I loved Heavy Rain, but despite its writing, not because of it) is praised for his writing, that tells it all. Don't get me wrong, the GTA V story is many, many times better than GTA IV, but nothing to write home about, IMO.

I just don't want to be bound by average stories while having a great city to explore and waiting for unlocks of guns, areas (in old GTAs), features (buying of houses etc)... Story, yes please, I lost myself in the politics of Morrowind and the small and often hidden background stories, but when certain stuff does not enthral me as much as all the others, it seems. So, yes give me a great story, but if you are not able to do so and give me nothing special then at least give me a way to ignore it all and still enjoy the features of the game.

I agree with -tkf- and I think GTA is at its best when having a, not so hidden, critique of our society (I laughed out loud of many of the radio station ads etc, very good!), snarky character comments etc.

>I really wonder, outside of playable movies like JRPGs, which games those of you who feel this story is lackluster hold up as examples of superior storytelling?

Lets say you are right, does that mean all games must have equally bad stories as it is the norm? Lets just lower our standards and accept everything as fantastic? The average video game has a writing of a B action movie and if something is very good we shout "Citizen Kane" (see Last of Us)? The best story I ever experienced in a game was Planescape: Torment and is as far removed from a playable movie as it can be (even though the amnesia angle was overused since then).

Thanks for the discussion and enjoy...

 

[Scott_Arm]

GTA 5 story is one of the better game stories I've played, but I'm pretty much in agreement with Yemeth that the bar for games is incredibly low.

 

[milk]

GTA 5 story is one of the better game stories I've played, but I'm pretty much in agreement with Yemeth that the bar for games is incredibly low.

At least it's improving...

 

[poopypoo]

Sorry for the drama, found it!

 

[poopypoo]

I think you mis-read me, I didn't say that at all.

Sorry, I see now that you were saying the characters of GTA were more convincing than RDR and the part of the story you were bored by was more... the third quarter..? If that's the case, then yeah we agree. I think RDR has some of the best all-time moments in action game storytelling to date (the ending in particular), but the character development and voice acting were below standards.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I agree with -tkf- and I think GTA is at its best when having a, not so hidden, critique of our society (I laughed out loud of many of the radio station ads etc, very good!), snarky character comments etc.

Well then maybe we are using different definitions and interpretations of story telling. I consider all of those things, what the NPC's say as you drive or walk by them, what is playing on the radio, the Weasel News updates, the commentary on the talk radio stations, etc. as story telling. Sure, there's the main story line (the plot), which I also think is certainly very successful, but all that other stuff helps to set the stage to create the world. They are set pieces that help you understand the context. I don't separate the two.

Lets say you are right, does that mean all games must have equally bad stories as it is the norm? Lets just lower our standards and accept everything as fantastic? The average video game has a writing of a B action movie and if something is very good we shout "Citizen Kane" (see Last of Us)? The best story I ever experienced in a game was Planescape: Torment and is as far removed from a playable movie as it can be (even though the amnesia angle was overused since then).

Thanks for the discussion and enjoy...

I thank you for providing an example, I haven't played Torment so I can't comment on its superiority to GTA V. But I will say that it is not right to compare different mediums. You can't compare the storytelling in Kenny Rogers "The Gambler" to that of James Garner's "Maverick", for example.

Sure, they are both about guys who make their money and live their lives playing poker but one is a song and the other is a movie. They both do a great job of telling their respective stories, but one is limited to the confines of a song, the other has more freedom to be expansive because it is a movie.

Likewise, video games are restricted in how their story can be told because they have to walk the line between telling and showing you the story and actually letting the user make their own choices.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Sorry, I see now that you were saying the characters of GTA were more convincing than RDR and the part of the story you were bored by was more... the third quarter..? If that's the case, then yeah we agree. I think RDR has some of the best all-time moments in action game storytelling to date (the ending in particular), but the character development and voice acting were below standards.

I think pretty much everybody agrees that the Mexico part of RDR was the weakest. But the point I'm trying to get from you is what are these standards you keep referring to?

And standards, typically, are the average. So to say something is below standard is to say it's below average. In order to have an average, there needs to be an equal amount of examples above and below. I haven't asked for examples of what is below your standards (although you've mentioned two: RDR and GTA V), but I have asked for them to demonstrate what exceeds these standards. There should be many examples, and I've only asked you for one.

So color me confused.

 

[milk]

I think pretty much everybody agrees that the Mexico part of RDR was the weakest. But the point I'm trying to get from you is what are these standards you keep referring to?

And standards, typically, are the average. So to say something is below standard is to say it's below average. In order to have an average, there needs to be an equal amount of examples above and below. I haven't asked for examples of what is below your standards (although you've mentioned two: RDR and GTA V), but I have asked for them to demonstrate what exceeds these standards. There should be many examples, and I've only asked you for one.

So color me confused.

So, you could say, that considering game's writing alone, GTAV is not terribly bellow standards, neither RDR.
But if you compare that with literature, or cinema, suddenly those games stories drop to the bottom of the quality scale. That's what is meant by "standards are low for games".

 

[Albuquerque]

But if you compare that with literature, or cinema, suddenly those games stories drop to the bottom of the quality scale. That's what is meant by "standards are low for games".

How is that a fair comparison though? When was the last time you were interactive with a movie or a book? Where you were able to make your choices, instead of being told what someone else did?

These things that you're comparing, they are not the same by any measure.

 

[milk]

How is that a fair comparison though? When was the last time you were interactive with a movie or a book? Where you were able to make your choices, instead of being told what someone else did?

These things that you're comparing, they are not the same by any measure.

People compare movies with books, or theatrical plays, or tv series. Compare music to written poetry. Individual shared aspects of mediums that differ in other things are comparable and its done all the time.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

People compare movies with books, or theatrical plays, or tv series. Compare music to written poetry. Individual shared aspects of mediums that differ in other things are comparable and its done all the time.

No, I disagree.

Usually when people compare movies with books, they are comparing the same identical story. Originally in book form and then compacted in its theatrical release. But they are both the same "Santa Sleighs Christmas" story, only the movie has less subplots than the book.

I've never seen anybody compare music to written poetry or a book to a movie that wasn't the exact same thing.

I don't see where different media have ever been compared, so I think it's totally not fine to say the story in GTA V is sub standard because it isn't Great Expectations. Great Expectations isn't good when you watch any of the movie interpretations and compare them to the book. But again, that's comparing a movie that is supposed to mirror that which is told in the book. There's no GTA V book that we are comparing the game to.

 

[dobwal]

So, you could say, that considering game's writing alone, GTAV is not terribly bellow standards, neither RDR.
But if you compare that with literature, or cinema, suddenly those games stories drop to the bottom of the quality scale. That's what is meant by "standards are low for games".

Books and Cinema tend to be passive experiences which allows a lot of leeway since the book or film has ultimate control of what a reader or movie goer reads or sees.

Writing is far more important to a film or book than it is a game. Games are a far more expansive experience which requires investment in areas that film and literature does even have to worry about. Film and literature producers don't have to spend millions of dollars creating interactive sandboxes that users may experience in infinite number of ways.

Plus, GTAV is more synonymous to blockbuster action hit versus The Great Gatsby or Citizen Kane. Avatar nor Star Wars are good examples of great writing. They don't pretend to be, neither does GTAV.

 

[milk]

Books and Cinema tend to be passive experiences which allows a lot of leeway since the book or film has ultimate control of what a reader or movie goer reads or sees.

Writing is far more important to a film or book than it is a game. Games are a far more expansive experience which requires investment in areas that film and literature does even have to worry about. Film and literature producers don't have to spend millions of dollars creating interactive sandboxes that users may experience in infinite number of ways.

Plus, GTAV is more synonymous to blockbuster action hit versus The Great Gatsby or Citizen Kane. Avatar nor Star Wars are good examples of great writing. They don't pretend to be, neither does GTAV.

Same kind of logic justified the imbecile kind of writing and story telling movies had gotten for most of its history. Though nowadays, if you watch the right movies, you can find stuff that has intellectual qualities comparable to those of good literature, despite the medium's differences.
GTA makes consetions for players that would be too dumb to understand more subtle writing, and to accommodate big hollywood-like action set-pieces, which although incredibly fun, do not mesh well with the characters or their plot.

 

[poopypoo]

There's also a difference between substandard writing and a simple negativity that pursues you through every action in the game. A lot of people complained that GTA IV was too serious and dark, the same way a lot of people complained that they didn't enjoy pretending to be a witty black gangbanger as much as being a completely stereotypical Italian mobster. So here I mostly mean to comment that some people don't expect GTA to be written any more sophisticatedly than Con Air. Personally, I do, and I recall specifically a lot of people being excited to return to San Andreas, and for me, that enthusiasm was largely about the fun and light-heartedness of it. Sure it had some cynical things to say about American morality, but I felt it raised the bar a bit for all video game stories with its genuinely witty way of telling stories and making commentary. What we got instead with GTA V was a hollow rehash of those themes, with some of the crap from Vice City thrown in for good measure and some slightly hilarious Insane Clown Posse rejects on top. But over all it's very negative. Nothing good ever really happens to anyone in the story, except perhaps for Trevor, who seems largely incapable of appreciating much of anything. And on top of it all, the passing jokes and witticisms are well below standards -- not for video games, but for GTA. That;s my opinion; it really doesn't bother me if some of you disagree. The lack of ability to see anything from anyone else's viewpoint irritates me a bit, but the rest is no biggie.

 

[Themrphenix]

I just want to say a great job by Rockstar!If there is any members of Rockstar in the forum pm me!

 

[Jedi2016]

If we're talking about story, I would rate it at "okay". I wasn't really playing it for that, though... there's just so much to DO in the game, I had a blast all the way through, and I haven't even really started on the 100% completion. Long way to go yet.