Google + browser + console = PC substitute?

[SPM]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5132806.stm

Take a look at Google's plans for online services. Others are also planning web based application and storage services. Will this help make the hard-diskless console a viable alternative to the home PC for many people?

 

[Hardknock]

Can you open attachments on these hard-diskless based consoles? How many different file types will it support? What about support against viruses and dealing with buggy software? What if I want to play my games but a friend or sibling wants to work on their paper at the same time? Will all my current programs that I've purchased work on it or will I have to get all new substitutes? And saying I do have to find substitutes, is their a wealth of choices available? Can I upgrade or configure the hardware in my console to better suit my needs?

I don't think Consoles will ever be in the same ballpark as a PC.

 

[pc999]

Personally I am not sure if it can substitute a PC in all it glory, but I do think it could replace it for many as long as you can do the basic things (ie surf, e-mail, office like, mensager like, and some open/standard formats for media) that wouldnt need a lot yet could do the same work that many (most?) people do in a PC (that is why most people have crappy PCs).

In fact it could replace for me.

 

[Sis]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5132806.stm

Take a look at Google's plans for online services. Others are also planning web based application and storage services. Will this help make the hard-diskless console a viable alternative to the home PC for many people?

Let's consider this when Google does something other than search. Right now, their strategy of "throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" isn't really compelling (though admittedly always interesting).

Then again, I'm not a fan of web-based applications. I like the client. I think the future is OS-on-a-stick, not storage in the clouds. But this is my personal view, backed up only vaguely by the general lack of online-applictaion success. (And to counter my own argument, see Salesforce.com.)

 

[cthellis42]

Nothing will substitude for a PC "in all its glory" until a console and a PC share the same exact operating system, but you have to realize that for 90% of the tasks for 90% of the people, simply providing email, browser use, and media playing will be all they use their computer for. ANY console these days could quite easily do that; the trick is in doing it more easily and more appealingly to actually make consumers think to do it from their media center as opposed to their computer desk.

At the moment, it's just hard to break people of their rhythm. There's a "place" for each separate task, and until it's introduced in such a quick and easy way that it just becomes intrinsic to use anywhere (crossing the barrier from "I was to sit down and do my email, so let me go to my computer desk..." to "I should check my email. <turns on closest email device>" ) we're simply not going to see people bother.

This is not one of those times yet.

 

[patsu]

Can you open attachments on these hard-diskless based consoles? How many different file types will it support? What about support against viruses and dealing with buggy software? What if I want to play my games but a friend or sibling wants to work on their paper at the same time? Will all my current programs that I've purchased work on it or will I have to get all new substitutes? And saying I do have to find substitutes, is their a wealth of choices available? Can I upgrade or configure the hardware in my console to better suit my needs?

I don't think Consoles will ever be in the same ballpark as a PC.

I'm against using console as a general purpose PC because I don't think they are designed for it. In addition, it will complicate the consoles unnecessarily, making them vulnerable to all sorts of PC-related problems. However it should be possible to make consoles into special purpose PCs (i.e., designed to perform specific upgradable functions like gaming and entertainment).

*Just for discussion purposes* ...

Using Microsoft's Outlook Web Access (Email + calendaring + contact management browser app) as an example...

XML is used to render UI and handle user interaction.

WebDAV is used to emulate a disk (so your attachment, mailbox and working files are indeed stored remotely). Searching is also performed remotely over WebDAV partitions.

Virus detection is done before Email get into your mail box, and when you attach a new file.

Buggy software will bring down browser instances or the entire process but not the OS.

Many programs will have web equivalent soon (especially for remote access !). The choice will only increase over the next few years.

If more than 1 user wants to use a console for PC app.... in this case, they will be hitting on the server (instead of PS3) at the same time. The console is just using web browser to launch an ASP app.

EDIT: For typo and clarity

 

[SPM]

Can you open attachments on these hard-diskless based consoles?

You can do it with a browser plug-in just like you can on a PC. However to update the browser plug-ins would require flash RAM or a memory card. I presume the built-in browser would be in flash RAM.

How many different file types will it support?

The browser/media player would likely support flash media, real media Windows media, PDF, various image formats, various music formats etc. Writely would probably support MS Office formats, ODF formats and some Wordperfect formats.

What about support against viruses and dealing with buggy software?

Unlike a PC, viruses aren't a problem because you haven't got a hard drive for them to infect. In addition neither your console not any of Google's servers use Windows OS (all Google's server run on Linux and given that none of the current consoles are ix86 based, their beowsers will probably run under an embedded Linux OS, and no virus has ever successfully spread on a non-Microsoft system so far despite 30 years of trying (that includes Unix, Linux, and Mac OSX). As for spreading on viruses to Windows users by forwarding emails received from other Windows users, Google's server based anti-virus program should take care of that.

What if I want to play my games but a friend or sibling wants to work on their paper at the same time?

Good question. What do you do if you have a games PC but a friend or sibling wants to work on their paper at the same time? What happens if you want to browse the Internet while they want to work on their paper? Tough one that. Being able to do two things on a console helps not hinders this. If you have a console anyway, why not use it for Internet browsing or as a PC? What is to be gained by deliberately making it not do Internet browsing or PC functionality?

Will all my current programs that I've purchased work on it or will I have to get all new substitutes? And saying I do have to find substitutes, is their a wealth of choices available?

If you have purchased some current programs, presumably you have a PC to run them on, and you can keep doing so, so why do you have to transfer them to your console? To put it the other way, you have purchased some games for your PS2 or GameCube. Will they run on a PC? By the same logic, are you saying people should not buy a PC because they can't run PS2 or GameCube games?

The software provided by Google comes with the service. It is intended for the things that 95% of home users do with a computer like web browsing, sending/revieving email, viewing photos, getting information, VOIP calls, IM etc. and it is a lot less effort to use. It is not an exact copy of a Windows PC, but rather a different way of doing some of the things you can do on a PC.

Can I upgrade or configure the hardware in my console to better suit my needs?

Sure you can - just plug in whatever you need into a USB port - mass storage, printer, flash reader etc.

I don't think Consoles will ever be in the same ballpark as a PC.

I would agree with you - consoles are far easier to use, much lower maintenance and cheaper, they are also application specific. Use of a console as a PC substitute is also application specific, but being application specific doesn't mean there is no market for consoles does it? Nobody is asking to stop using your PC, but if you have a console, why not enable every console for use as a PC substitute as well since it can do 95% of whay people want out of a PC. This might help you with the sibling sharing problem on your PC you mentioned.

 

[aaaaa00]

no virus has ever successfully spread on a non-Microsoft system so far despite 30 years of trying (that includes Unix, Linux, and Mac OSX).

Ahem. The very first successful internet virus was a Unix worm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Can you open attachments on these hard-diskless based consoles?
Bit stupid if you couldn't.

How many different file types will it support?
No info on that, but you could support images, music, docs and thingslike .swf without being at any risk.

What about support against viruses and dealing with buggy software?
I have those same issues with viruses and bugs on PCs...

What if I want to play my games but a friend or sibling wants to work on their paper at the same time?
What if you want to play Half-Life 2 on the PC but your sibling wants to do their paper? In days of yore, you'd just have to wait for your sibling to finish. Nowadays people tend to have multiple computers/devices so there's no sharing needed. I've never heard anyone complaining about running games and apps on PC, so why is it an issue with a non-PC computer? If you get a console and it does the work and games you want, you can give your PC to your sibling and both be happy

Will all my current programs that I've purchased work on it?
Of course not! They're compiled for a different OS and probablt a totally different architecture!

or will I have to get all new substitutes?
Yes

And saying I do have to find substitutes, is their a wealth of choices available?
Not yet, and it all depends on whether the systems takes off. But any popular system will attract development as an untouched market.

Can I upgrade or configure the hardware in my console to better suit my needs?
Perhaps some of them.

I don't think Consoles will ever be in the same ballpark as a PC.
Neither do I. I think they'll be playing a different game entirely, but attracting away some of the spectators from the PC ballgame. And maybe the new game will become more popular than the old one?

 

[Platon]

As long as you can not run, edonkey, bittorrent, DC++ and download mp3s, divxs and run unsigned code PCs are not going anywhere and on a more practical note, I don't think that most people would like to have a keybord on the coffe table in their living room and doing their "work" from the sofa...

 

[_xxx_]

As long as you can not run, edonkey, bittorrent, DC++ and download mp3s, divxs and run unsigned code PCs are not going anywhere and on a more practical note, I don't think that most people would like to have a keybord on the coffe table in their living room and doing their "work" from the sofa...

Hey, I just bought a bluetooth keyb/mouse combo because of that! I love being able to do everything from the sofa with my HTPC (well not work, but browse, answer emails etc.).

 

[Nick Laslett]

I don't think that most people would like to have a keybord on the coffe table in their living room and doing their "work" from the sofa...

Ha ha! What do you think wi-fi and bluetooth were invented for?

When working from home I do most of my work sitting in the garden.

Now that wi-fi has liberated my laptop I never go in my home office.

 

[Platon]

Hey, I just bought a bluetooth keyb/mouse combo because of that! I love being able to do everything from the sofa with my HTPC (well not work, but browse, answer emails etc.).

Ha ha! What do you think wi-fi and bluetooth were invented for?

When working from home I do most of my work sitting in the garden.

Now that wi-fi has liberated my laptop I never go in my home office.

When I said that the thing about the keybord on the coffe table that of course includes that it is wireless, I am no that stupid, that is the only way anyone would even consider having it there. The other thing is that most of us here are not "most" people, internet forum geeks usually are not. And working on your wireles lap top in the garden, I do that some times as well, is not the same as sitting on the sofa with the kb/mouse on the coffe table and working on your TV.

And in a world where everyone is "concerned" abut the monopoly of MS, on which OS atleast you are able to run whatever program you want, to go to the absolute monopoly where only approved programs will most likely work on consoles...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And in a world where everyone is "concerned" abut the monopoly of MS, on which OS atleast you are able to run whatever program you want, to go to the absolute monopoly where only approved programs will most likely work on consoles...

Not if they use open platform's like Linux. I don't see any word from Sony about limiting applications on PS3 through their own vetting process. That would be a mammoth undertaking. If you're going to do that, you'd be better off elliminating homebrew and only allowing registered developers.

 

[quest55720]

Until people have multiple HDtvs and PS3s it will not work for the average family. You don't think little johny would be hell bet if he just came home with MGS4 and could not play because his sister is chatting with friends online or mom is watching a blueray movie? IMO any PC functions using a SDTV would pretty much suck. All these PC like functions are right up the alley of the tech savy person who has a lot of money the problem is they already have a PC. This is not 10 years ago where a PC costed over a 1000 dollars. PCs are dirt cheap these days sure they can't play many games but they can do everything the average person does on a PC including the monitor for half the price of a premium PS3. I just don't see the point of all this for now talk to me when the PS3 with a HDTV is less than a cheap PC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I just don't see the point of all this for now talk to me when the PS3 with a HDTV is less than a cheap PC.

A PS3 on a montior won't cost so much. It's doesn't have to be a TV it's connected to. Sure it's not for everyone, but no solution/product ever is. For one you've plenty of customers out there with no family to worry about. You've got students in their dorms, bachelors in their appartments, older folk who's family have left and who can't understand Windows to work it. Within families you've got some kids with TV+console in their room who could do some work on it. It's not as ideal as a high-res PC, but I've used an Amiga on a TV for a lot of stuff I do now on my PC, and for text research or finding pictures to copy onto falsh mem for later use on the home PC, it'll work.

So no, it's not going to replace PCs. I'm not sure the idea is trying to either. Offering an alternative gives people choices. A cheap PC is much better at productive work than a console, but won't play games nearly as well. So if you want mostly games with some productivity, at least this way you'll have that option. I don't see why some people are so against giving people options, or know why some think there's only one type of household and a device not suited for that isn't suited for anyone.

 

[one]

You don't think little johny would be hell bet if he just came home with MGS4 and could not play because his sister is chatting with friends online or mom is watching a blueray movie? IMO any PC functions using a SDTV would pretty much suck.

Then buy a PC LCD monitor (16:9 one preferably) and a second PS3. If you can't, well, it's not different from the situation with a regular living room TV where you compete with your family members for which channel to watch. Your brother wants to play PS2 while you want to play 360, things like that.

 

[patsu]

Until people have multiple HDtvs and PS3s it will not work for the average family. You don't think little johny would be hell bet if he just came home with MGS4 and could not play because his sister is chatting with friends online or mom is watching a blueray movie?

But you have the same problem even for a Windows PC. They end up buying multiple PCs (like my family). However home media functions have grown big enough for us to think about a dedicated PC just for it. In my case, a box that allows me to centralize all my family photos, songs, home videos and all sorts of commercial videos would be perfect. This way our personal laptops will have more disk space.

It would also be great if we (or our friends) can access our media remotely. I'm looking at a home server a la LocationFree.

IMO any PC functions using a SDTV would pretty much suck. All these PC like functions are right up the alley of the tech savy person who has a lot of money the problem is they already have a PC. This is not 10 years ago where a PC costed over a 1000 dollars. PCs are dirt cheap these days sure they can't play many games but they can do everything the average person does on a PC including the monitor for half the price of a premium PS3.

You are correct but a PS3 has its own "Entertainment" niche:
* You can't play games like MGS on a PC
* A PC is too ugly to be placed in a living room
* PS3 should be easier to set up (It should be better supported too since only 1 vendor is responsible for it !)

As for using a PS3 to read Email and web browse, I'm with you here: A PC still beat PS3 hands down. We (most people) will continue to use our laptops for them.

I believe PS3 should be positioned as a special purpose PC, not a PC substitute. The ability to web serve, web surf, email, podcast, etc... allows it to integrate seamlessly with the Internet, while focusing on its specialized function.

The other segment that it will appeal to are the geeks. Even though we can build our own PCs, we may also enjoy network Cell programming and bringing all the PS3 users together. A full blown Linux OS will come in handy here, even if the user experiece is lesser than a PC.

I just don't see the point of all this for now talk to me when the PS3 with a HDTV is less than a cheap PC.

According to an old study, many people have multiple PC monitors at home (as they upgrade). This is one of the reasons MacMini was released without a monitor. Besides, for geek work, we should be able to SSH or compile VNC to serve PS3 screens to our laptops.

The layman crowd will have to wait for PS3's DLNA support to enjoy movies over the network.

EDIT: Back on topic, I think the original article talks more about using console + ASP application model as a viable computing platform. It is different from console vs PC. The server functions (provided by google, for example) may bridge the gap between consoles and PCs.

 

[Pozer]

Why does every 3 years someone tries to reinvent WebTV like its revolutionary idea. People can walk into Walmart and get $300 web surfing PC.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Then buy a PC LCD monitor (16:9 one preferably) and a second PS3. If you can't, well, it's not different from the situation with a regular living room TV where you compete with your family members for which channel to watch. Your brother wants to play PS2 while you want to play 360, things like that.

No the point is a PC generally gets heavy usage by all members of a household. His post began with "Until people have multiple HDtvs and PS3s it will not work for the average family"

By using your games console as a replacement for the PC, it basically means it will be tied up a much of the time doing stuff like checking email, surfing the web, or chatting.

It's not comparable to fighting over TV channels, the TV is a dedicated maching that only serves one purpose. We're talking about all-in-one machines here, which means you have one machine doing a variety of different tasks, and in the end you would have much more conflict over who gets to do what when.

And forget little johnny playin MGS4, what if dad wants to watch monday night football and the wife needs to get some work done on the 'computer'?

Shifty - It's not that I'm against options. I just like to be realistic about the portion of consumers that will actually be interested in these options. As soon as you say "oh just buy a 2nd ps3 and a 16:9 flatscreen"...you just lost the vast majority of consumers. The vast majority of consumers have PC's already as well. Why should any of these people go with an option that is not only more expensive, but offers less functionality than what they are already using?