Global warming

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It really sucks that most people live in parts of the world which don't get too hot or too cold for present battery technology. I mean they aren't going to release cars like that unless 100% of the worlds population can use them without issue...

Most of the car buying consumers don't live in places where it doesn't get too hot or too cold. How many cars do you think are sold in Africa and Latin America? The cars in warmer parts of the world are already pretty fuel efficient for the most part anyways.
 
Batteries work in colder temperatures than you're experiencing. However ,they do become less efficient. And not working with other areas doesn't make it a dead end.

You need A LOT of energy to heat up the cabin. Heating a metal car traveling at 65 mph is not like heating a well insulated, non-moving house. I'd be surprised if a car like the leaf would even be able to go 40 miles in these conditions. Well maybe it can, only if the driver freezes his ass off.
 
You need A LOT of energy to heat up the cabin. Heating a metal car traveling at 65 mph is not like heating a well insulated, non-moving house. I'd be surprised if a car like the leaf would even be able to go 40 miles in these conditions. Well maybe it can, only if the driver freezes his ass off.

No, its nothing like heating up a house. The typical automobile cabin is a bit over a hundred cubic feet or so as opposed to 10,000 or more for a house.

Nissan claims 62 miles for worst case ie. if you drive aggressively with heat or air on max.
 
I'm sure animal populations are far more threatened by unrestricted hunting than by warming, especially in places like Africa.

Don't try to deflect. The point is small changes in long term averages have a MASSIVE impact, and that applies to us as well. Just trying to point out that pretending that small changes don't matter is akin to shoving your head in the sand.
 
Nissan claims 62 miles for worst case ie. if you drive aggressively with heat or air on max.

In 15F weather at 65mph? Doubt it. Not to mention you're pretty clueless about physics, since you assume it's easier for a smaller object to not lose (or gain) heat compare to a bigger object. Volume increases faster than surface area, so a smaller object like a car has much more surface area per unit volume to lose that heat, and that's before even getting into material differences, like double glazed house windows vs. windshield glass in a car.
 
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Don't try to deflect. The point is small changes in long term averages have a MASSIVE impact, and that applies to us as well. Just trying to point out that pretending that small changes don't matter is akin to shoving your head in the sand.

Those are all estimates, and it's in scientists' best interests to give worst case estimates, since you don't get grants for studies to show everything is normal. Remember the global warming estimates from 20 years ago? How accurate were they?
 
In 15F weather at 65mph? Doubt it. Not to mention you're pretty clueless about physics, since you assume it's easier for a smaller object to not lose (or gain) heat compare to a bigger object. Volume increases faster than surface area, so a smaller object like a car has much more surface area per unit volume to lose that heat, and that's before even getting into material differences, like double glazed house windows vs. windshield glass in a car.

I'm sure you do doubt it, but I don't think you're too bright, so I'm not worried about it. Maybe you should move an 80,000 BTU furnace into your car so you won't freeze in your terrible 15F weather you poor baby.
 
How do laptops exist then? I mean most work days are longer than a typical laptop will hold a charge for. I guess people generally don't bother with portable computers in general because of the battery issue.


I think even you have to agree laptops are diffrent.

Let me ask you , how long does it take to change out the leaf's battery ? How long does it take to change out a laptop battery ?

Let me ask you , how long does it take to charge a laptop , how long does it take to charge the leaf .

Also many times you can stop and charge a laptop when you can. i.e in a car ride , in a train , on a plane , in the office. But how do you charge the car while your driving ?

So in this instance , if i'm driving to alantic city i need to go 160 miles. The leaf only goes 70. So I'm going to have to stop at least twice to charge. Leaf charing takes up to 7 hours.

On a gas engine or the volt it would take me 0 fill ups to make this trip and less than 3 hours of driving. With the leaf it would take me upwards of 17 hours

Actually it can take more reading up

using a 100v connection it would take 16 hours to charge . If i can find a 220v charging station it would cut that into half at 8 hours. if i'm lucky enough to find a place to use the fast charge option would take just 30 minutes. However each station will cost $45 thousand to install.

So as it is now the leaf doesn't really work for everyone and we'd have to either see charging stations become as common as gas stations or battery range go up . Most likely we will need both. I'm not sure most people will want to stop every hour on a road trip to charge a battery for 30minutes to just drive another 30 minutes.

...Because telling people to change their "culture" due to it being unsustainable would be too onerous for them and simply too much to ask, right?

Or how about designing a car that fits peoples needs ? I'd have no problem driving an electric car as long as it has a way of doing what i need it to do.

I have no problem buying into a volt like tech where I can use the battery 90% of the time and then when i go on road trips or you know live my normal life I don't have to get stuck in the middle of no where.

Like i said , work is almost a 30 mile commute for me round trip. That is already close to the volts range. Lets say I want to go vist my gf. Well she is another 13 miles out of the way. So i'm now past the volt range at 46miles for my day. I pick her up and she wants to go run errands. well now I'm driving around doing that. Lets say thats another 10 miles worth of driving. I'm up to 56 miles for the day. But wait , i have to go another 13 miles to get home after droping her off. Boom I'm up to 69 miles. Its in the leafs range according to reviews but what if its cold like to day at 16f . Will i make it home ? Who knows lets just play with my life and everyone's on the road to see if my car stops moving suddenly.


AlphaWolf The problem is that people do travel longer distances on occasion. While you may not often drive more than 50 miles in a given day, for many people there are quite a few days in a year that they would. Owning a separate vehicle is an additional expense, and an additional impact on the environment.

They need some fast charge stations, or quick battery exchanges, or extended battery packs for rent before electric vehicles are a realistic option as a replacement for many people.

exactly. I have it pretty good as alot of things are close by. If i vist my cousin who is work in upstate new york he has to drive for a half an hour to hit a target. his local gamestop is 20 miles away. hell his job is over 30 miles each way. I can imagine in some southern states there is quite alot of space between things.



People can also run out of fuel in the middle of a highway I don't really see the difference. So long as theres enough battery life for 2-3 days of normal use, it'll be enough to meet the needs of most people since it is uncommon for people to drive >50 miles in any particular day unless they have an obscene commute, which isn't all that common.

I think you'd be surprised how quickly it can add up for alot of people . Not to mention that alot of people wont even have a place to charge the car.



Personaly these companys like Nissan need to get their charging stations out there. They need to make a deal with a gas company and put the charging stations at every location in the country . They need to make a deal with mc donalds and put at least one in every location.

Until charging stations become common these vehicals wont take off.


Don't get me wrong. I think it be great if we could all move to electric vehicals and drasticly cut our oil dependancy. I just simply don't see a senario in the next 10-15 years even where an all electric car makes sense for everyone. I'm sure as this decade goes on and we go into the next one the electric car will grow and expand to ecompass more and more people and life styles but I don't when it will be able to ecompass everyone.

I think hybrids like the volt design and the prius are good middle grounds for alot of people and we need to see more effort put into those along with full electric vehicals.

Mabye we wont be able to get off gas completely but mabye in the next decade or two we can cut our gas use by a third or two thirds.


P.S why do these cars only have 1 100v plugs ? Can't they find a way to allow you to plug into two spots for faster charging
 
Those are all estimates, and it's in scientists' best interests to give worst case estimates, since you don't get grants for studies to show everything is normal.
Once again, you forget that you get results AFTER your grants, and science isn't like politics where you can promise results.

Remember the global warming estimates from 20 years ago? How accurate were they?
By that logic, we should not believe in any kind of science and seek our knowledge from Church, Koran etc.... After all, every kind of science has made significant changes in it's opinion as it has tried to learn more.

It's kinda funny that you disparage science - which you don't understand in the slightest - and then turn around and believe that science is shaky because lots of crackpots or vested interests spin yarns of pseudo scientific hokum.

Oh, I almost forgot, you completely dodged the question of whether or not small changes in long term averages can have real effect on life on earth.

Disappointing, but hardly unexpected from a denialist to run like hell when confronted with evidence or hide behind a veil of "I don't get science/I don't read scientific papers" and then pass judgments on whether or not science is shaky.
 
P.S why do these cars only have 1 100v plugs ? Can't they find a way to allow you to plug into two spots for faster charging

Usually nearby plugs are on the same circuit. So 2 115V connections would give you no more capacity if the same circuit runs them. BtW most US stuff is 115-120 and 230-240 not 100V.
 
People can also run out of fuel in the middle of a highway I don't really see the difference. So long as theres enough battery life for 2-3 days of normal use, it'll be enough to meet the needs of most people since it is uncommon for people to drive >50 miles in any particular day unless they have an obscene commute, which isn't all that common.

Most people don't run out of fuel on the highway because when they're low, there are many gas stations they can pull into and get refueled in a few minutes. With an electric car, there is no refueling option that'll only be a few minutes, so you're fucked.
 
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When evidence on the unsustainability is shaky, at least to the average person who doesn't read scientific papers, it is indeed too much to ask.
Lol, wut?

What the hell kind of fucked up logic is that? "I'm an idiot and deliberately an ignoramus, so asking me to take responsibility for my own behavior is impossible!"? That's the dumbest shit I read all week here at least.

The unsustainability bit doesn't even need science to become obvious, it's totally plain to see for anyone that doesn't wear blinders on purpose. Oil comes out of the ground, obviously. Kinda like iron, gold, and so on. So when all of it's been pumed out...then what? I'll leave you that one to ponder yourself.

And what happens when you burn the stuff? Well, go up in the hills surrounding L.A. for example in the afternoon (I don't know if you live there, but since I've been there and done that, I'm using this setting as my example.) Look out over the city, what do you see? Smog, I bet.

What you think THAT shit does to people, long-term? There's so many poisons and carcirogens in fossile fuels and oils and their combustion byproducts it's downright scary. But having people CARE about that, NO WAY! That's just totally unrealistic!!! :rolleyes:

What the fuck? Are you for real, man?

I used to live in Europe, and I came here to a country where everything is cheaper and more plentiful, and there is more space for everyone. I'm not going back.
Lol, we're gonna make you go back... Just you wait and see! We're gonna CO2-tax your gas SO BAD your wallet's gonna get one hella headache just thinking about fuelling up your muscle car, and causing you to cry bitter tears of grief. :LOL:

Oh, and you can post another death threat against my person now if you really want, but I wouldn't recommend it.
 
Lol, wut?
And what happens when you burn the stuff? Well, go up in the hills surrounding L.A. for example in the afternoon (I don't know if you live there, but since I've been there and done that, I'm using this setting as my example.) Look out over the city, what do you see? Smog, I bet.
Bullshit distraction, nothing else. Smog is not caused by new, modern IC engines. It's caused by older cars, and surprisingly, ships burning low grade diesel in their old engines. Smog is not caused by global warming and has nothing to do with CO2.

Lol, we're gonna make you go back... Just you wait and see! We're gonna CO2-tax your gas SO BAD your wallet's gonna get one hella headache just thinking about fuelling up your muscle car, and causing you to cry bitter tears of grief. :LOL:
It's not gonna happen, keep dreaming.
 
Well we here on the eastern seaboard pretty much sustained averages 10-20F below the normal for an entire month, but oh no, that's just weather when I mention it...
 
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Well we here on the eastern seaboard pretty much sustained averages 10-20F below the normal for an entire month, but oh no, that's just weather when I mention it...

If you had bothered to look at the link chalnoth posted you would have realized just how little area had just how mild a cooling compared to the rest of northern america.

That's why it's weather and not climate. You have to look at much larger areas for much longer.
 
I think even you have to agree laptops are diffrent.

Let me ask you , how long does it take to change out the leaf's battery ? How long does it take to change out a laptop battery ?

Let me ask you , how long does it take to charge a laptop , how long does it take to charge the leaf .

How many people would swap out a battery in a laptop? Not very many. You're not bringing up very common use scenarios given the United States is a country where it is common to have two car families and the typical daily useage is quite low.


Actually it can take more reading up

using a 100v connection it would take 16 hours to charge . If i can find a 220v charging station it would cut that into half at 8 hours. if i'm lucky enough to find a place to use the fast charge option would take just 30 minutes. However each station will cost $45 thousand to install.

So as it is now the leaf doesn't really work for everyone and we'd have to either see charging stations become as common as gas stations or battery range go up . Most likely we will need both. I'm not sure most people will want to stop every hour on a road trip to charge a battery for 30minutes to just drive another 30 minutes.

Most people sleep for 8 hours, and most cars aren't on the road for 23 out of 24 hours of the day. Im sure people can find the time to charge when they aren't using the car. The Leaf not working for everyone isn't a problem, no car does. It just has to work for enough.


Or how about designing a car that fits peoples needs ? I'd have no problem driving an electric car as long as it has a way of doing what i need it to do.

I have no problem buying into a volt like tech where I can use the battery 90% of the time and then when i go on road trips or you know live my normal life I don't have to get stuck in the middle of no where.

Like i said , work is almost a 30 mile commute for me round trip. That is already close to the volts range. Lets say I want to go vist my gf. Well she is another 13 miles out of the way. So i'm now past the volt range at 46miles for my day. I pick her up and she wants to go run errands. well now I'm driving around doing that. Lets say thats another 10 miles worth of driving. I'm up to 56 miles for the day. But wait , i have to go another 13 miles to get home after droping her off. Boom I'm up to 69 miles. Its in the leafs range according to reviews but what if its cold like to day at 16f . Will i make it home ? Who knows lets just play with my life and everyone's on the road to see if my car stops moving suddenly.

Tell your girlfriend to move, thats what a Leaf driver would do. Given you're not a typical user I doubt your experiences would reflect the majority of peoples experiences.






Until charging stations become common these vehicals wont take off.

Some ladies would like the convenience of home refueling. It isn't dirty like petrol.

Don't get me wrong. I think it be great if we could all move to electric vehicals and drasticly cut our oil dependancy. I just simply don't see a senario in the next 10-15 years even where an all electric car makes sense for everyone. I'm sure as this decade goes on and we go into the next one the electric car will grow and expand to ecompass more and more people and life styles but I don't when it will be able to ecompass everyone.

All electric doesn't have to make sense for everyone, just about 50% of people would be enough.
 
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