General Next Generation Rumors and Discussions [Post GDC 2020]

PSman1700 said:

''The SSD on the PS5 is considerably faster than the one found in the Xbox Series X. However, Microsoft implemented other unique features that should mitigate the difference.''

https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-series-x-way-more-powerful-ps5-heres-how-much-more

Or are they blatantly lying?
Click to expand...
Well the website is called Windows Central and during the PS360 gen microsoft claimed that the 360 blew the PS3 out of the water with creative use of numbers....so yeah I would take it with a grain and salt [emoji14]
Also One was suppose to be even better than the PS4 thanks to esram and the power of the cloud.
I d prefer to hear it from an unbiased source
 
Nesh said:
Well the website is called Windows Central and during the PS360 gen microsoft claimed that the 360 blew the PS3 out of the water with creative use of numbers....so yeah I would take it with a grain and salt
emoji14.png

Also One was suppose to be even better than the PS4 thanks to esram and the power of the cloud.
I d prefer to hear it from an unbiased source
Click to expand...

Well, i agree with you on that. I wasn't around during the PS360 generation (totally lack of intrest in consoles back then), and yes the name is windows central. But, where smoke is is fire, they are not the only ones claiming this, i think that in the end, the difference isn't going to be that big. hardware is one thing, software another. I know that MS has done some very good things on the software side of it. Remains to be seen what BCpack will deliver. MS is not done yet unveiling things, intresting times ahead.
 
PSman1700 said:
Well, i agree with you on that. I wasn't around during the PS360 generation (totally lack of intrest in consoles back then), and yes the name is windows central. But, where smoke is is fire, they are not the only ones claiming this, i think that in the end, the difference isn't going to be that big. hardware is one thing, software another. I know that MS has done some very good things on the software side of it. Remains to be seen what BCpack will deliver. MS is not done yet unveiling things, intresting times ahead.
Click to expand...
Sounds like insiders to me...have they been verified!?
 
PSman1700 said:
'The SSD on the PS5 is considerably faster than the one found in the Xbox Series X. However, Microsoft implemented other unique features that should mitigate the difference.''
Click to expand...

I never said there wasn't something that might mitigate the effect, unless mitigate means something other than what I think it does?

I mean say I'm to race Usain Bolt and I wear special running shoes that might mitigate the beat down I'm about to recieve it's still a beat down. :)

But like I said earlier somewhere I don't think there's ever been a case of the specs released( Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo) where they have hidden some performance, if it's there they will announce it.
 
PSman1700 said:
''The SSD on the PS5 is considerably faster than the one found in the Xbox Series X. However, Microsoft implemented other unique features that should mitigate the difference.''

https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-series-x-way-more-powerful-ps5-heres-how-much-more

Or are they blatantly lying?
Click to expand...
They said esram would close the peformance gap with ps4. This sounds quite similar.

What's the compression ratio difference between the two codecs? Not the exaggerated figures, but the real tests? Once we have that it's simple math. Lossy codec will however put a wrench in any attempt at real world comparisons.
 
jayco said:
Let's not get upset over console warriors, is not worth it. Besides, this forum has an ignore function for the most annoying ones. ;)
Click to expand...
Oh come on, there's just 1.

DSoup said:
Can you provide a quote? I'm not seeing it.
Click to expand...

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2111461/

disco_ said:
Finally able to watch the presentation.
Starts at 28 minute mark.The wording is weird, I'll say that. He starts "playing ps4 and ps4 titles at boosted frequencies" I assume he means "ps4 and ps4 pro titles"? Ending that whole paragraph with "we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on ps5" makes it sound like it's not 100% BC but looking at the previous statement, it's the ps5 boost that's still not 100% working, as it was with ps4 and its boost.



The compatibility is for running ps4 games at ps5 spec if I understand it correctly. BC modes run it in native ps4/pro with no issues.
Click to expand...
 
BC is clarified in ps blog.

We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.
We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.
Click to expand...


https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/

To me this sounds like boost mode could expose programming mistakes in ps4 games where mistake is relying on ps4 specific performance. Patches incoming to fix some games and some games might only work on ps4/ps4 pro mode.
 
manux said:
BC is clarified in ps blog.




https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/

To me this sounds like boost mode could expose programming mistakes in ps4 games where mistake is relying on ps4 specific performance. Patches incoming to fix some games and some games might only work on ps4/ps4 pro mode.
Click to expand...


Yes.

- Every PS4 game will run on the PS5 when in forced compatibility mode (18CUs at 800MHz). They just couldn't test >4000 titles because.. well, it's four friggin' thousand games and Sony had better been spending their resources elsewhere at this point, but it's the most expected outcome.
- Every PS4 Pro game will run on the PS5 when in forced compatibility more for Pro (36CUs at 911MHz). Same as above.

- Most PS4 Pro games will run on the PS5 in PS5's native clock mode (36CUs at 2.23MHz) unless they have some weird code that breaks the game when running in a 2.5x faster GPU and >2.5x faster CPU with 2x the memory bandwidth (though probably >2x the effective bandwidth).
That should translate in dynamic resolution games always hitting the resolution ceiling, and/or 30FPS games running at 60FPS (or more if VRR is used).
 
DSoup said:
Except it won't be the minimum. If Microsoft are saying 6Gb is "typical", it means it can go slower under some circumstances and faster under others. It's likely a median of observed throughput through considerable testing. Thats' why that used "typical" and not minimum or guaranteed.
Click to expand...

As I said, it was just my view. It's entirely possible that isn't the minimum attainable when using the compression block. Actually, now that I think about it, it can't be the minimum because some data can't be compressed.

Regards,
SB
 
MrFox said:
They said esram would close the peformance gap with ps4. This sounds quite similar.

What's the compression ratio difference between the two codecs? Not the exaggerated figures, but the real tests? Once we have that it's simple math. Lossy codec will however put a wrench in any attempt at real world comparisons.
Click to expand...

Here is what I got from my limited research.

Texture block compression is lossy. But texture block compression is also random access. Higher compression leads to worse quality in general which is a common characteristic with all lossy compression. However, image degradation happens more readily with texture block compression than something like JPEG.

JPEG holds up much better to compression but you may be forced to decompress large portions of the image to access the pixels the gpu needs. Individual compressed pixels in a block texture format seems to be accessible by gpu. So a gpu can grab whatever pixels it’s needs from vram and decompress on hardware.

So the current scheme for texture compression seems to be to use a lossy texture based block compression like BCn along with rate-distortion optimization and lossless compression to produce compressed textures with random access and at JPEG like sizes.

Im guessing you have to decompress from lossless into vram to expose random access to the gpu.

In other words, Kraken or Zlib is just removing one layer of compression and the textures in VRAM are still compressed. If Sony is using something standard and MS is using a new block compression format that offers better compression at the same quality, it would mitigate some of the PS5 SDD bandwidth advantage.

There a big chance I’m completely wrong as my research was really short.
 
Last edited:
ultragpu said:
What are the chances they boost The Order, Bloodborne and Driveclub to 4k on BC? Or will they simply have higher fps?
Click to expand...

My opinion? The likeliness of that happening is the same as the likeliness of those titles coming to PC. IE - work done for a PC port may translate into a "free" BC upgrade. Either that or Sony would charge extra for the 4k versions.

Would be great for PS5 users, however, if Sony had a surprise announcement of BC enhancements similar to what MS have been doing. I'm rooting for this to happen. :)

Regards,
SB
 
dobwal said:
Here is what I got from my limited research.

Texture block compression is lossy. But texture block compression is also random access. Higher compression leads to worse quality in general which is a common characteristic with all lossy compression. However, image degradation happens more readily with texture block compression than something like JPEG.

JPEG holds up much better to compression but you may be forced to decompress large portions of the image to access the pixels the gpu needs. Individual compressed pixels in a block texture format seems to be accessible by gpu. So a gpu can grab whatever pixels it’s needs from vram and decompress on hardware.

So the current scheme for texture compression seems to be to use a lossy texture based block compression like BCn along with rate-distortion optimization and lossless compression to produce compressed textures with random access and at JPEG like sizes.

Im guessing you have to decompress from lossless into vram to expose random access to the gpu.

In other words, Kraken or Zlib is just removing one layer of compression and the textures in VRAM are still compressed. If Sony is using something standard and MS is using a new block compression format that offers better compression at the same quality, it would mitigate some of the PS5 SDD bandwidth advantage.

There a big chance I’m completely wrong as my research was really short.
Click to expand...

Short, but interesting.
Problem is the conclusion is based on an if...
 
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