Gamespot's Best/Worst of 2006 Awards

[scooby_dooby]

How was Oblivion any more progressive than FFXII then? From what I saw and read, it's Morrowind with souped up graphics. The living world appears to be fundamentally broken to the point it's surreal/eerie how NPCs behave. I'd say FFXII was far more entrepreneurial, as it took a turn based series and made it realtime. It's very different from prior iterations of the franchise. Oblivion seems to be a standard progression of the series, and without really making major headway either. The gameplay is fundamentally broken it seems, and the living world aspect doesn't appear to amount to a great deal either.

I don't know what criteria was used to choose best RPG, but I would have thought it be 'best overall game experience' and the fact that Oblivion offers no challenge has to place it low in that respect.

Have you even played oblivion?

A) On default it's not that easy
b) There'a a difficulty slider, if you turn that up to even 3/4 you will get your ass absolutely whalloped.

Maybe it's a standard progression of the series, but Morrowind was so broken I couldn't play the game. The combat was fundamentally flawed, and the draw distance was pathetic. Oblivion actually made the open-ended world, hardcore RPG, completely accessible for all gamers, and I think that was it's biggest achievement.

FF12 going to realtime combat, so what? This isn't something new(mmo's and other RPG's have done it a long time ago), nor is it necessarily better, nor will it become the norm for the future series (I read that the FF13's dev said it will be more traditional)

 

[Bobbler]

For me it's a metter of the positives far outweighing the negatives, and as good as FF12 seems to be so far, it just doesn't do alot to improve on it's 15 year old formula.

The gambit systems, and RT combat are neat but they're not any big steps forward imo.

They may not be big steps forward, but they certainly aren't big steps backwards. I don't think you can claim the same for Oblivion.

Obviously it's fine we have differing opinions, but I just don't see how such a hugely flawed game (in game play and mechanics) can garner a top spot. I'd probably put Oblivion in second place and Disgaea 2 in third, for what it's worth. So even with Oblivion's flaws, it's still an enjoyable game (to a certain point, at least), but it just doesn't deserve top spot, objectively speaking -- it's got too many game design issues to deserve the "best" moniker. Graphics wise, I wouldn't really feel bad giving Oblivion top spot (even if it has some extremely ugly art, here and there).

Giving Oblivion top spot for RPGs is akin to giving Genji top spot for action games, in some ways. Both are really beautiful in some places, both have gameplay/mechanic issues (Genji's stupid camera vs Oblivion's stupid leveling system; Genji's somewhat dated gameplay vs Oblivion's guards/repetition/enemies; etc.) and both have a only mildly compelling storyline. I'm not saying Genji deserves top spot -- not close -- but, both games have their issues. Oblivion getting top spot is as silly to me as Genji getting a top spot in action games for the year (although, as I said, I'd give oblivion second place -- I wouldn't give Genji second place, that's for sure). Sorry, I couldn't think of a more accurate comparison and a little exaggeration to emphasize a point never hurts! I think many of the issues that keep Genji from getting in the running are of similar magnitude to ones that are merely glossed over on Oblivion. Of course, ultimately, Genji gives you that sense that only a little bit of Love was put into it, while Oblivion reeks of Love put into it (which may be the reason two similarly flawed games are at nearly two opposite ends of the spectrum as far as review scores and regard gamers give it).

Granted, this is all my opinion, but I more or less agree with Cthellis42's entire post.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I dunno, I just can't agree that it's that flawed, npt when I poured 70+ hours into it, spent many many nights playing until 3-4 in the morning, being late for work, really enjoying it for the most part.

It wears thin after a while, but it's the most enthralling RPG I've played....ever.

 

[Bobbler]

I dunno, I just can't agree that it's that flawed, npt when I poured 70+ hours into it, spent many many nights playing until 3-4 in the morning, being late for work, really enjoying it for the most part.

It wears thin after a while, but it's the most enthralling RPG I've played....ever.

That's fine. In the end all we're debating is whether Oblivion deserves top spot or second place in the best RPG of '06 (and likewise for FF12). Obviously, both are very good games and you'll get differing opinions on them depending on who you ask. Magazines/websites/publications in JP would likely be far more biased towards FF12 being RPG of the year over Oblivion -- I'm sure region has something to do with it (although JRPGs are very well recieved over here, but there are a lot of gamers in NA that love WRPGs, especially in the PC realm).

At least one of the top two (in my opinion) games of the genre won RPG of the year... How the hell did DR win over Okami AND Zelda?!

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I agree that Oblivion has flaws, like the fact that the common road bandits were the most lethal enemies after one is on a high level etc. but honestly it's flaws didn't really bother me. Actually Oblivion and FF12 are so different that comparing them is quite hard, I just liked Oblivion more.

 

[scooby_dooby]

How the hell did DR win over Okami AND Zelda?!

Now that's fucked up

DR's a cool little game, but crappy controls, repetitive missions, and very basic combat means it's definately no game of the year.

I guess it won on originality alone, which is funny since it's not really original, being based on a movie and all.

 

[Tap In]

Nominees for game of the year award

Bully (PS2)

Company of Hereos (PC)

Dead Rising (X360)

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (PC, X360)

Final Fantasy XII (PS2)

Gears of War (X360)

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii, GC)

Okami (PS2)

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas (X360)

Viva Pinata (X360)

 

[Nesh]

Nominees for game of the year award

For me games that may deserve it are:

Gears of War (X360)

Okami (PS2)

Viva Pinata (X360)

 

[PARANOiA]

For me games that may deserve it are:

Gears of War (X360)

Okami (PS2)

Viva Pinata (X360)

Agree 100%. VP is my vote, simply because it's pure addictive entertainment. Easily the best game I've played all year.

 

[Bobbler]

I'd say Okami (haven't played Zelda, but I'm sure its fantastic), FFXII and GoW. Any of those would make me happy.

 

[Deepblue]

Gears of Win.

 

[Tap In]

Gears of Win.

yep

winner

Gears of War (X360) Publisher: Microsoft Game Studios Developer: Epic Games
It must have taken a lot of guts for Epic Games to put together a game like Gears of War, but above and beyond that, it must have taken some kind of preposterous level of talent, time, money, and effort. The result is an action game that simply makes most other action games look bad. Of course, Gears of War isn't all about its technology; a number of simple, brilliant design choices are part of what makes this game so much fun to play.

Gears of War is the game that actually fulfills those outlandish promises we've been hearing from the likes of Microsoft and Sony about how earth-shattering the so-called next-generation games will be. OK, OK, we believe it. It's easy and tempting to call this the best-looking game ever made; but Gears of War is a complete package, offering much, much more than pretty visuals. It's a game that takes one of the most basic concepts in gaming--the shooter--and pushes that concept further than any other game has done before.

Gears of War's influences are apparent, and most of them are cinematic in nature. Take all of your favorite science fiction action movies, mash them into one, and put yourself in the starring role, and there you go. Better yet, put yourself and a friend in the starring roles; you guys decide who will be the sidekick. Other games have offered cooperative play in the past, but again, Gears of War does it better. An intuitive tactical combat system, visceral close-quarters shooting, likable characters, a highly replayable campaign, an intense competitive versus mode, and a great visual style all contribute to making Gears of War such an amazing game.

Developer Epic Games has long since earned a good name for itself thanks to its outstanding multiplayer-focused Unreal Tournament series. It's almost startling, then, how a game like Gears of War could come out and practically eclipse the company's past accomplishments, as great as they've been.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Have you even played oblivion?

A) On default it's not that easy
b) There'a a difficulty slider, if you turn that up to even 3/4 you will get your ass absolutely whalloped.

Maybe it's a standard progression of the series, but Morrowind was so broken I couldn't play the game. The combat was fundamentally flawed, and the draw distance was pathetic. Oblivion actually made the open-ended world, hardcore RPG, completely accessible for all gamers, and I think that was it's biggest achievement.

Have you actually played morrowind? Morrowind was hardcore, oblivion is a dumbed down version of morrowind with nicer graphics. And no, if you know what your doing even at 100% difficulty its still a walk in the park, anybody with half a brain can get virtually immortal in oblivion after level 20 or so.

Further, oblivions "everything levels up with you" is fundamentally broken, there is no point in getting a higher level, because everything will level up with you, you gain nothing in terms of power (ofcourse after certain levels you just become a semi-"God" because of your gear)

In morrowind, you went off to face dragons and shit like that after you leveled up, in morrowind you face the same bandits for 20 levels, they just get higher level and wear glass armor just like you..

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Have you actually played morrowind? Morrowind was hardcore, oblivion is a dumbed down version of morrowind with nicer graphics. And no, if you know what your doing even at 100% difficulty its still a walk in the park, anybody with half a brain can get virtually immortal in oblivion after level 20 or so.

Further, oblivions "everything levels up with you" is fundamentally broken, there is no point in getting a higher level, because everything will level up with you, you gain nothing in terms of power (ofcourse after certain levels you just become a semi-"God" because of your gear)

In morrowind, you went off to face dragons and shit like that after you leveled up, in morrowind you face the same bandits for 20 levels, they just get higher level and wear glass armor just like you..

Well at least the fighting system was total crap in morrowind. How annoying was it that the game tells you missed when you can see the sword piercing your enemy?
Eventhough you try to explaing your point about leveling up it still sounds flawed. First you say that the game is too easy as you can make the character "semi-God", but then you bitch about everything else leveling up with you, thus making leveling up useless, only to counter that with the fact that you still are semi-god because of the gear, while the player AND the enemies are using the same stuff?!

Anyways I can agree with some of the points and certainly find many flaws in the game. For example the fact that the road bandits are the most fearsome enemies is ridiculous. I mean my character was fighter with heavy gear, very powerful etc. I was the grand champion of arena beating minotaurs and shit, so basically everybody in the world should have known when they see mee that wow! he's the toughest sob in the world and just run away. Instead a bandit attacks me, a one person...

Still eventhough my armor rating was at the maximum and I was at level 35-40 (can't remember the exact) the game still offered some challenge when a horde of enemies attack you, and I would go as far as to say that in most rpgs you can make your character much more "semi-God" compared to the enemies, especially in the Jrpgs

The game wasn't perfect by any means, but I don't put 110h into a crappy game. Of course these are matters of taste...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well at least the fighting system was total crap in morrowind. How annoying was it that the game tells you missed when you can see the sword piercing your enemy?

The combat mechanics in Morrowind wasn't key to the gameplay IMO. The game was all about levelling and exploring and managing your inventory, which is what RPGs are mostly. Standing there repeatedly hitting the attack button to fight was just a primitive 'minigame' interrupting the RPG element. If you're after a combat game, Elder Scrolls is the wrong genre!

Eventhough you try to explaing your point about leveling up it still sounds flawed. First you say that the game is too easy as you can make the character "semi-God", but then you bitch about everything else leveling up with you, thus making leveling up useless, only to counter that with the fact that you still are semi-god because of the gear, while the player AND the enemies are using the same stuff?!

In Morrowind, while exploring you'd find monsters that'd whip your sorry little heinie at the beginning when you're a wuss. So you go off, pick your fights more carefully, and return at a later date where it's more of a challenge. Then after levelling up more, you find more of those monsters that used to be tough and hand them their own buttocks on a plate. You had that constant sense of progression which is key to an RPG. The whole point of RPGs, from the ADnD PnP days, was levelling a character to become more powerful in what you could do. Oblivion broke that and meant levelling had no benefit, which meant the game was only about exploration and combat. The combat still wasn't great by any stretch, and the exploration was nothing beyond Morrowind with nicer graphics. The living world didn't work properly either, with NPCs acting like moronic robots instad of living people.

But chiefly, for a title that wins the RPG of the Year award, I'd have thought the key requirement for a robust levelling system where you grow in power would have been top priority. Yet that's non-existent in Oblivion! Personally I found Oblivion a moderate disappointment. It was only a moderate disappointment because I've learnt to disbelieve everything devs say about amazing AI, living worlds, yada yada! If I hadn't played Morrowind for many, many hours, Oblivion would have had more appeal, but to me it was the same game with nicer graphics (though not stellar) and a broken backbone.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The combat mechanics in Morrowind wasn't key to the gameplay IMO. The game was all about levelling and exploring and managing your inventory, which is what RPGs are mostly. Standing there repeatedly hitting the attack button to fight was just a primitive 'minigame' interrupting the RPG element. If you're after a combat game, Elder Scrolls is the wrong genre!.

Well many of the key skills are leveled in combat at least for a fighter character (which I usually am)
So to me the combat is important, and it was better in Oblivion. I basically think RPGs are about being a part of compelling story and making the character reflect your personal desires and interests etc. However I'm not saying that the main story in Oblvion was anything special, it was ok and with all the quilds, I found the overall content to be very satisfactory. However I wasn't trying to make this into Oblivion vs Morrowind discussion I just pointed out that the combat is better in Oblivion. I'm basically just saying that I enjoyed this game a bit more than FF12.

In Morrowind, while exploring you'd find monsters that'd whip your sorry little heinie at the beginning when you're a wuss. So you go off, pick your fights more carefully, and return at a later date where it's more of a challenge. Then after levelling up more, you find more of those monsters that used to be tough and hand them their own buttocks on a plate. You had that constant sense of progression which is key to an RPG. The whole point of RPGs, from the ADnD PnP days, was levelling a character to become more powerful in what you could do. Oblivion broke that and meant levelling had no benefit, which meant the game was only about exploration and combat. The combat still wasn't great by any stretch, and the exploration was nothing beyond Morrowind with nicer graphics. The living world didn't work properly either, with NPCs acting like moronic robots instad of living people..

But chiefly, for a title that wins the RPG of the Year award, I'd have thought the key requirement for a robust levelling system where you grow in power would have been top priority. Yet that's non-existent in Oblivion!

Well Can't really disagree with much of that, but I personally think that the leveling system is not quite as black and white situation you make it out to be. I atleast had a feeling that my character is becoming stronger and actually felt that the enemies became easier as I went through the levels, of course my experience is only based on the one character class that I played. In the beginning of the game I found very often than I was laying in my own blood, but at the end I was just cruising through the enemies. If there were multiple enemies at the same time, I still found some challenge though.

Personally I found Oblivion a moderate disappointment. It was only a moderate disappointment because I've learnt to disbelieve everything devs say about amazing AI, living worlds, yada yada! If I hadn't played Morrowind for many, many hours, Oblivion would have had more appeal, but to me it was the same game with nicer graphics (though not stellar) and a broken backbone.

Well the world certainly felt more alive than in FF12. Where the NPCs mostly just stand there and do nothing, in Oblivion there were many sidequests involving the citizens that breath life into the world imo. FF12 is the game this was pitted against and like I have said many times, Oblivion certainly isn't without flawes, for some they are critical flawes, but for many they were not that bad and we were able to enjoy the game to the fullest.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Have you actually played morrowind? Morrowind was hardcore,

And your comments are typical of the small slice of ultra hardcore RPG gamers...

I tried but it was too hardcore even for me, and I quit because the combat made me want to throw my controller through the window.

And believe it or not, some people need good graphics to be able to really get into a game. Morrowind, seeing all of 20yard just didn't do it, nothing compared to standing atop some of teh highest hills in oblivion and marvelling at the scenery.

And no, if you know what your doing even at 100% difficulty its still a walk in the park

Bulllllllshit. At 100% it takes like 40 hits to kill a rat! Walk in the park my ass.

Further, oblivions "everything levels up with you" is fundamentally broken, there is no point in getting a higher level, because everything will level up with you, you gain nothing in terms of power (ofcourse after certain levels you just become a semi-"God" because of your gear)

Agreed, the game's main flaw. Like I say, benefits far outweigh negatives. In my opinion, as well as the millions of gamers who bought it, and the press who rated it one of the highest RPG's in the last decade.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The whole point of RPGs, from the ADnD PnP days, was levelling a character to become more powerful in what you could do. Oblivion broke that and meant levelling had no benefit, which meant the game was only about exploration and combat. The combat still wasn't great by any stretch, and the exploration was nothing beyond Morrowind with nicer graphics. The living world didn't work properly either, with NPCs acting like moronic robots instad of living people.

This is basically plain wrong.

While it's true that the enemies levelling with you do dampen the feeling of getting more powerful, you certainly do become more powerful throughout the game.

In the beginning even a couple mountain lions, or a few bandits would be enough to kill you. While exploring you had to constantly keep your head up, ready to run. Later on, when you're powerful you basically fear nothing, huge 200+pt damage spells, loads of enchanted weapons, it works. Nothing short of 4 or 5 demons is anything to worry about.

Oblivion should've used more of a mix between static difficulty, and dynamic, which they did somewhat with the Altars spread around the world, with some really cool weapons and items hidden in them, that you could only reach after getting a certain level.

They definately shoudl've had more static sections that were harder though, and challenged you to return later in the game.

 

[cthellis42]

I don't know if they altered the level scaling in Oblivion between the PC and 360 versions, but IMHO if you end up designing a game that can CRIPPLE itself when you design and skill up your character the way you think you naturally should...

Basically, you lose top spot.

We've left the days where you could play 20-30 hours of a game and find out you threw yourself off a cliff and would have to start again a decade ago.