RussSchultz said:
I'm an engineer, and I see your statements as false and based upon nothing but idle speculation and falacious assumtions. You're attributing costs to items with zero idea of what those items cost in reality, and what might make them more or less expensive.
The PCB fabrication costs are minimal (on the order of a couple of dollars). 8 layers vs. 12 layers is no more difference than a few dollars.
The cost of the components could be a big knob that is slightly affected by the layout, but if you look at a GF-FX and a R3xx, you'll find the number of passive components (capacitors, resistors, connectors, etc) to be pretty much on par with each other in quantity. Likely the difference in cost between the two designs based on passive components is also in the order of a few dollars.
Memory? Well yeah, that might be a big differentiator--BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAYOUT. Same thing with the GPU chip.
So, again, beyond you deciding that demand is not being met because eBay is selling them for $500 (which I'm not even concerned about), what, exactly, leads you to believe that "Nvidia simply cannot afford a 12 layer board and the expensive board layout of the Nv30". What lends credence that they cannot afford 12 layer boards, and that their board layout is expensive?
I would tend to think pretty much like you, Russ--after all, what's a "couple of dollars" here and there? "Big Deal," right?
Wrong, it turns out. Card manufacturers think exactly like systems OEMs--every single penny--every one--is given what people like you and I would consider to be nonsensical attention. And that's because people like you and me don't count the beans.
I've seen major systems OEMs leave off 25-cent AGP slots on motherboards simply to save the 25 cents. (Doesn't sound like much but is could be when you anticipate selling hundreds of thousands of them--or millions.) Years ago I almost bought an HP system for some number crunching until I discovered the model didn't include an AGP slot--but just a permanent integrated AGP gp. (I bought another system--for less--with an AGP slot--just my preference--no relation to the tasks I needed done.) In fact, in every facet of the manufacturing of peripherals, whether it's hard drives, floppies, CD-ROMs, or-you-name-it....cost is numero uno.
Granted--a "couple of bucks" sounds like chicken feed. But to the manufacturers and OEMs of these products it can often mean the difference between profit and loss--at least, that's the way they think about it. The fact is that even if the difference was a few pennies per pcb the difference would still be enough to get their attention.
I can agree, though, that a limited-production item selling for $500 on eBay is absolutely no measure of demand, and if anyone paid $500 for such a product it is likely because of its limited production status coupled with people's illusions of "collector's items"...
V5 6K's brought even more $$$ on eBay--but I think that was because the supply was far more limited than the few 5800U's likely to be made.
I do think that the V5 6K and the 5800U are both examples of poorly conceived products, though, in that they were too expensive to make and would have ultimately cost more money than they made their sellers because their performance would not have justified the prices manufacturers would need to charge to make a decent profit, considering the limited portion of the market these products sell into. Hence both were cancelled (although nVidia went further with it than 3dfx did.)
