Forum Software Change!
- Thread starter Rys
- Start date
To add some feedback, I don't like it either. However that might be because the forum overview just looks terribly cluttered with the boldly coloured large speech bubble and "new" icons. They visually drown out the important part, i.e the forum name and last post.
Less objectionable as it's much more subtle, but does there really need to be an RSS icon for each forum?
Also, would it be possible to combine Watched Forums and Watched Threads as it was before? Is anyone using both functions, but not checking both at the same time?
Speaking of last posts, and I don't know if anyone's mentioned this before, but when listing New Posts, could it be possible to not jump to the last post when clicking what is now the last post link in the list of threads, but rather the first unread new post. The latter seems roughly 5000% more useful, at least to me. A thread may have gained many many new posts since your last visit, maybe even several pages depending on factors, as it is now you have to backtrack manually to find the starting point, and this is a bit cumbersome and unintuitive, at least in my opinion.
Speaking of last posts, and I don't know if anyone's mentioned this before, but when listing New Posts, could it be possible to not jump to the last post when clicking what is now the last post link in the list of threads, but rather the first unread new post. The latter seems roughly 5000% more useful, at least to me. A thread may have gained many many new posts since your last visit, maybe even several pages depending on factors, as it is now you have to backtrack manually to find the starting point, and this is a bit cumbersome and unintuitive, at least in my opinion.
That's how it works for me, but then again I usually read all posts in a single session; when using New Posts the link for me is always to my first unread new post.
I'll try to leave some posts unread, mark down the initial link, then return later in the day and see if the link is the same as the original or if it's been changed.
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@Grall, @Rys,
I did some monitoring of how new unread worked. I first selected a thread to watch that was getting new posts; "Is GCN Presence in Consoles starting to show" [https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/is-gcn-presence-in-consoles-starting-to-show.56310]. I had read the last post in that thread.
I noted the last post that I had read being the one from lanek
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/is-gcn-presence-in-consoles-starting-to-show.56310/#post-1810419
Throughout the next day I noted several times the thread showed up on the "new posts" list with different authors. I have not clicked on the thread title so it continued to show up in the new posts lists. The first person to respond after that lanek post was 'homerdog @ 13:45 2014-11-29 EST'. Later it had in the new posts list 'lanek @ 16:02 2014-11-29 EST'. This morning in the new posts list 'svensk viking @ 12:30 2014-11-30 EST'.
At this point I still have not read any of those posts at all, nor had I clicked on the thread title to view the thread at all.
This morning in the New Posts list I clicked on the thread title [ url = https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/is-gcn-presence-in-consoles-starting-to-show.56310/unread ] and it took me to the first unread post by 'homerdog @ 13:45 2014-11-29 EST'. I then saw homerdog, lanek, pharma, and svensk viking's responses.
tl;dr = it worked exactly as expected, took me to the first post after the last read post.
I did some monitoring of how new unread worked. I first selected a thread to watch that was getting new posts; "Is GCN Presence in Consoles starting to show" [https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/is-gcn-presence-in-consoles-starting-to-show.56310]. I had read the last post in that thread.
I noted the last post that I had read being the one from lanek
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/is-gcn-presence-in-consoles-starting-to-show.56310/#post-1810419
Throughout the next day I noted several times the thread showed up on the "new posts" list with different authors. I have not clicked on the thread title so it continued to show up in the new posts lists. The first person to respond after that lanek post was 'homerdog @ 13:45 2014-11-29 EST'. Later it had in the new posts list 'lanek @ 16:02 2014-11-29 EST'. This morning in the new posts list 'svensk viking @ 12:30 2014-11-30 EST'.
At this point I still have not read any of those posts at all, nor had I clicked on the thread title to view the thread at all.
This morning in the New Posts list I clicked on the thread title [ url = https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/is-gcn-presence-in-consoles-starting-to-show.56310/unread ] and it took me to the first unread post by 'homerdog @ 13:45 2014-11-29 EST'. I then saw homerdog, lanek, pharma, and svensk viking's responses.
tl;dr = it worked exactly as expected, took me to the first post after the last read post.
Well, I've held back posting this for a while now, so that I can give a more objective feedback to the new forum software after using it for a little less than a month.
I don't like it.
The new way in how websites are developed has resulted in a much slower and more lag intuced surfing experience overal. This software clearly suffers from it. Even typing replies through the input field is relative slow, probably due to the amount of real-time parsing that is being done client-side as you type. This might seem overal more convinient (it's an added feature after all), but if it results in higher lag while typing, I don't really see the point. This might be solved using a dedicated forum app (taptalk?) through a tablet, phone or PC, but through a browser, it's a whole lot slower than what we were used before. The only real advantage I see this new forum software offering is the ability that through a browser, the site caters to mobile devices such as tablets or smartphones with a smaller screen in a way the old software didn't. This IMO is great for those who use it (and don't use a dedicated app). Apart from that though; I can't see much advantages from a user perspective. The HTTPS decision is baffling (as I just posted in the appropriate topic), so I'll leave this point out here. Not going to comment much on the themes & design either, as that is changable and I'm sure will change over time to be more pleasing.
One thing; One of the most used (and important features) is when replying to a topic, you used to be able to see the last X number of posts within the same topic. This seems to be missing now.
So, I really appreciate the work that is put in, into maintaining a modern forum and I respect that a lot of work has been put in over the last few months to make this a flawless as possible transition for the most of us. I'm also aware that my criticism won't do much help, as it's more or less directed towards the software and not against any work that has been invested into getting this online. I am also assuming that the new forum software offers a lot more (modern) features and advantages for the site-holder, admin and moderators - but from a user perspective, I can't be too happy about them. IMO (again from a user perspective); this new forum software is a large step backwards in terms of speed and the overal convinience factor. I can only hope that the uptakes from the site maintainers perspective make it worthwhile none-the-less.
As a side remark; This forum software - sadly - demonstrates what is painfully wrong with many other modern sites where dynamic content and more freedom/features on the creation level are traded-off for performance and efficiency. The future outlook is bleek, as surfing becomes slower and slower, where the focus seems to be bigger/nicer/flashier. Reminds me a bit of the beginning phases of shockwave/flash websites where suddenly, every site needed animated content which resulted in a very unergonomic, cluttered surfing experience. What a pitty the Internet seems to be heading that way again.
I don't like it.
The new way in how websites are developed has resulted in a much slower and more lag intuced surfing experience overal. This software clearly suffers from it. Even typing replies through the input field is relative slow, probably due to the amount of real-time parsing that is being done client-side as you type. This might seem overal more convinient (it's an added feature after all), but if it results in higher lag while typing, I don't really see the point. This might be solved using a dedicated forum app (taptalk?) through a tablet, phone or PC, but through a browser, it's a whole lot slower than what we were used before. The only real advantage I see this new forum software offering is the ability that through a browser, the site caters to mobile devices such as tablets or smartphones with a smaller screen in a way the old software didn't. This IMO is great for those who use it (and don't use a dedicated app). Apart from that though; I can't see much advantages from a user perspective. The HTTPS decision is baffling (as I just posted in the appropriate topic), so I'll leave this point out here. Not going to comment much on the themes & design either, as that is changable and I'm sure will change over time to be more pleasing.
One thing; One of the most used (and important features) is when replying to a topic, you used to be able to see the last X number of posts within the same topic. This seems to be missing now.
So, I really appreciate the work that is put in, into maintaining a modern forum and I respect that a lot of work has been put in over the last few months to make this a flawless as possible transition for the most of us. I'm also aware that my criticism won't do much help, as it's more or less directed towards the software and not against any work that has been invested into getting this online. I am also assuming that the new forum software offers a lot more (modern) features and advantages for the site-holder, admin and moderators - but from a user perspective, I can't be too happy about them. IMO (again from a user perspective); this new forum software is a large step backwards in terms of speed and the overal convinience factor. I can only hope that the uptakes from the site maintainers perspective make it worthwhile none-the-less.
As a side remark; This forum software - sadly - demonstrates what is painfully wrong with many other modern sites where dynamic content and more freedom/features on the creation level are traded-off for performance and efficiency. The future outlook is bleek, as surfing becomes slower and slower, where the focus seems to be bigger/nicer/flashier. Reminds me a bit of the beginning phases of shockwave/flash websites where suddenly, every site needed animated content which resulted in a very unergonomic, cluttered surfing experience. What a pitty the Internet seems to be heading that way again.
I agree that it's a step backwards in information density and usability in certain cases, but the basics of finding a forum and a thread and posting in it are about the same as before. There's a list of forums, a list of threads and a list of posts presented in much the same way as before. Things are laid out differently or are different colours, so there's some new muscle memory to be had, but for 99% of posters who only interact with the forums to read and post, I don't think it's a huge step backwards. It's just different.
As far as maintenance goes, it's a big step forwards for me. I appreciate that benefits just one person, but that's the person that keeps the forums online, maintained and reliable so the rest of you can use it.
It's also a big step forwards for the moderator team, in terms of control and usability.
As far as HTTPS goes, I answered you in the other thread. You're wrong on that front.
Performance wise, I'm not really sure where you're coming from. I find it just as fast as the old forums, personally, although I do have the benefit of a great Internet connection pretty much wherever I find myself. There's very little actually happening client side. The vast majority of the speed you perceive is that of the network. There is more data being sent compared to before, I can't deny that, but there's no that much going on on the client when it gets to you.
I'll continue to improve the looks, speed and usability as much as I can going forwards, so please point at specifics that aren't working so I can focus on those things. I'll also do my best to make it snappy for you in terms of input lag. Can you let me know what system/OS/browser configuration is causing you problems, and give me an idea of the network connection you have to the forums?
I agree with you that the general trend is that web applications do a lot more than they used to, but I don't feel like that's happening at a faster rate than the trends in client-side and network performance.
As far as maintenance goes, it's a big step forwards for me. I appreciate that benefits just one person, but that's the person that keeps the forums online, maintained and reliable so the rest of you can use it.
It's also a big step forwards for the moderator team, in terms of control and usability.
As far as HTTPS goes, I answered you in the other thread. You're wrong on that front.
Performance wise, I'm not really sure where you're coming from. I find it just as fast as the old forums, personally, although I do have the benefit of a great Internet connection pretty much wherever I find myself. There's very little actually happening client side. The vast majority of the speed you perceive is that of the network. There is more data being sent compared to before, I can't deny that, but there's no that much going on on the client when it gets to you.
I'll continue to improve the looks, speed and usability as much as I can going forwards, so please point at specifics that aren't working so I can focus on those things. I'll also do my best to make it snappy for you in terms of input lag. Can you let me know what system/OS/browser configuration is causing you problems, and give me an idea of the network connection you have to the forums?
I agree with you that the general trend is that web applications do a lot more than they used to, but I don't feel like that's happening at a faster rate than the trends in client-side and network performance.
I see no issues with typing entry. You press a key and the results appear on screen after a few milliseconds. Unless one's touch-typing a zillion words per minute, and even then spamming out junk I can't overload the input field and hit any amount of lag, I can't see any problems with input speed. That's on Windows 7 PC, Apple Mac, and Nexus 7 tablet.I'm inclined to think there are issues with your connection. In terms of performance, I see squat difference between new software and old.
I think the issue with unread posts might be when you open them up in a new tab (at least from the new posts page). Most of the time when I open those links in a new tab I get jumped to a semi-random spot (usually somewhere around the right post). I've attached an image for an example. Oddly enough though, if I open the link within the same window it seems to jump me to the right position. Not sure if it's just me or not. Either way it's not a big deal to scroll a little.
Reasons for deleting a post don't seem to be visible (at least in dark theme).
Yeah, sometimes the thread is positioned at the top of the window, under the menu bar.
Also, I haven't gotten multiquote to work yet. I select a couple of posts, click reply, and only the post I'm replying to gets quoted.
hm... can't see the ones I recently deleted in the DF thread? I haven't been able to keep up with forum things the last while, so I haven't come across posts deleted by other mods.
Shifty Geezer said:
On the topic of speed; You're effectively pitting the old software which offered a static html input field which did absolutely nothing (no processing) with a forum software that offers forms with intelligent parsing. As an example, if I mark a word in this inputfield as I am typing and use control-B to bold it (instead of using the vbulletin tags), the text will be bolded inside the input field (instead of just the preview window above). In technical terms, this isn't a basic form anymore, but something more akin to a word processor (in laymans terms). This stuff is executed and parsed client side, so yes, how good and smooth everything runs depends very much on the clients device.
This is but one example on what is creating lag. I'm actually surprised you perceive the performance between this new forum software and the old one to be identical - IMO the difference is quite staggering. It's not just about the increased amount of data - it's also down to a more complex website structure that leads to a higher performance cost client-side. The result being; the memory load just loading B3d now has increased by a substantial amount (open a few tabs of this forum to exagerate the issue demonstrates it nicely too). Then again; I work in this field for a living, so perhaps it's easier for me to spot the difference. On the other hand, given how many websites todays are created through overblown and complex CMS that offer a billion features, we tend to take these new modern era of websites, however slow they might be, for granted.
Anyway, I merely wanted to voice my input, given this is the appropriate thread for it and given you yourself say that the overal structure remains identical to the old forum software, I'm a bit disappointed that everything now just runs slower/laggier. So, from my humble user perspective - it's the same, but slower. However, as you yourself say, this new software offers many better features for the staff and moderators which I guess make it worthwhile. If the features outweigh the performance deficit, that is all that matters.
Modern browsers, overall processing speeds on devices and modern bandwidth available has made these kind of advances in usability possible without any real detriment to client speed. You still haven't advised what kind of connection you're on, what device you're using or your browser/OS etc.
I use XenForo on my own site with more addons and client side scripts than here and it runs very fast. I'm also on a Litespeed SSD server so that helps with the page generation times. Client side I don't have any issues either, it's always been super-responsive.
I use XenForo on my own site with more addons and client side scripts than here and it runs very fast. I'm also on a Litespeed SSD server so that helps with the page generation times. Client side I don't have any issues either, it's always been super-responsive.
For what it's worth, I'm also getting quite a few page not responding error messages but it might just be BT being BT. Other sites load up fine though.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Is it possible to get the "who posted" feature back? previously when you clicked the number after replies, you got a pop up window showing who has posted in a thread and how many times and then pressing a name would show all the posts of that person in that thread. Now when you hover the cursor over the number, it's not clickable and only says how many has liked the first post. Not super important, but I found it handy sometimes.
This is but one example on what is creating lag. I'm actually surprised you perceive the performance between this new forum software and the old one to be identical.I didn't say it was identical in performance - I said I see squat difference. It may be that the lag on entering a character on the old forum was 15 ms and the lag on the new one is 100 ms, but in terms of use it makes squat difference such that I can't perceive it. I type and the characters appear one after the other with no delay. It's not like characters are so slow that after typing a line, you take your hands off the keyboard and characters are still popping up as the input buffer is gradually worked through.
Does it matter? Everything's getting huge in terms of resource requirements, but at the same time we have computers with staggering amounts of RAM.
It is taken for granted, but the rich content certainly has value. And certainly in my day-to-day surfing, the only lags and latencies I feel are still with loading pages. Everything executed in page tends to be nippy. But I'm on an i7 with an SSD - I know that my old PC was slow with web pages.
It's the future! Everything has gotten slower and slower, but then we upgrade our hardware and it's all lovely again!
You're exagerating this a bit, the BB-code editor is still available, and you can use it just like before.
