Forum Organisation Ideas & Suggestions

[Arun]

One of the important subjects in the "Let's Evolve" thread is changes to forum organisation, so I thought I'd open a thread just about that. Keep in mind I'm speaking for myself here, and while I've discussed these ideas with other team members a bit, these are only ideas to kickstart the conversation. With that in mind...

There are a lot of low activity forums, and you're less likely to get a good answer on some subjects than if they were combined in fewer forums. But on the other hand, Beyond3D has several very different audiences and the forums should not simply be combined based on how similar their subjects are, but also how similar their audiences are. For example, I think it makes no sense to combine PC Games and Console Games, and neither would combining Console Technology and Handheld Technology.

And then for the forums that do have the same audience, what's the right trade-off between the number of forums and their level of activity? Right now we have too many forums with too little activity in the 3D & PC spaces at least, but there are also benefits to good organisation so you know where to look and new threads on a specific field you're interested in (e.g. GPGPU) don't get lost in the noise.

Another thing is that the Console Technology forum could become standalone and be renamed to 'Game Engine & Console Technology'. That would better reflect both its existing scope and the kind of conversations we want to encourage not just for consoles, but also PCs and handhelds. Dividing it from the console forum might also allow us to enforce even slightly stricter quality standards and and hopefully attract a bit more developer interest.

As for the overall organisation, here's my idea: let's cheat and have the best of both worlds! Here is an interesting vBulletin mod that might suit our needs very well: View Threads from Multiple Forums in a Master Forumshttp://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=245414 - the specific configuration I have in mind is one where there are multiple Master Forums, each with several subforums, you can only post in the subforums, and all thread titles in the Master Forum automatically show which subforum the thread is from.

So here's my proposal based around that idea:

• 3D Architecture & Chips (other subforums including 3D Hardware/Software/Devices and 3D & Semiconductor Industry)
• 3D Technology & Algorithms (other subforums including 3D Programming & Tools and GPGPU)
• Hardware & Software Talk (other subforums including Processor & Chipset Technology and Purchase Decisions)
• Console Forum (other subforums including Console Games and Handheld Games)
• Game Engine & Console Technology (see paragraph above)
• Handheld Technology (might want to divide in two subforums)
• PC Games (It's sufficiently active and different from everything else to be its own forum)
• And all other special-purpose forums in their own category at the bottom of the page.

Anyhow, let us know what you think! All opinions are welcome, even if they're completely different from what I proposed above - there's certainly no fixed plan at this point.

 

[Rodéric]

Simple Forum proposal, simple but maybe incomplete :

• News
• General
• Hardware
  • PC
  • Console
  • Handheld
• Software
  • PC
  • Console
  • Handheld
• Jobs
• Feedback
• RPSC

Alternatively :

• News
• General
• Hardware
  • PC
  • Console
  • Handheld
• Software
  • Programming
  • Games
  • Tools
• Jobs
• Feedback
• RPSC

 

[PixResearch]

Totally agree with simplified Forum structure.

It's sometimes very hard to work out which category or sub category a thread is in if you want to find it again. Usually having got there through New Posts the first time.


I like Roderic's alternative structure... Only comment is it would be nice to keep a space for related technologies. E.g. video, image processing, etc. Perhaps an extra 'video' category under Hardware?

• News
• General
• Hardware
  • PC
  • Console
  • Handheld
  • Video
• Software
  • Programming
  • Games
  • Tools
• Jobs
• Feedback
• RPSC

 

[Squilliam]

So here's my proposal based around that idea:

• 3D Architecture & Chips (other subforums including 3D Hardware/Software/Devices and 3D & Semiconductor Industry)
• 3D Technology & Algorithms (other subforums including 3D Programming & Tools and GPGPU)
• Hardware & Software Talk (other subforums including Processor & Chipset Technology and Purchase Decisions)
• Console Forum (other subforums including Console Games and Handheld Games)
• Game Engine & Console Technology (see paragraph above)
• Handheld Technology (might want to divide in two subforums)
• PC Games (It's sufficiently active and different from everything else to be its own forum)
• And all other special-purpose forums in their own category at the bottom of the page.

Heres my proposal based off what you said.

• 1.Chip Architecture and 3D/Semiconductor industry. With purchase decision and general hardware talk subforums. You may even want to make handheld technology a sub forum as well due to the fact that with ARM on windows, many of these architectures are about to invade the PC space.
• 2. 3D Technology & Algorithms (other subforums including 3D Programming & Tools and GPGPU) (combine elsewhere?)
• 3. Console forum = games industry forum. It seems that thats the majority of the threads.
• 4. Game engine and console technology, with 3D algorythms and tools?
• 5. Console games, PC games...
  

1. My reasoning is that theres starting to be a lot of crossover talk between llano/fusion and Sandy Bridge IGPs, various integrated graphics systems like ION also cross between the two on a regular basis and 3D semi-conductor industry is relevant to both. The forum itself has few active threads at once however CPU hardware/chipsets + 3D architectures + 3D semi-conductor industry don't have enough threads to flood the rest out of existance. It would also enable relevant threads to exist once a certain level of activity is reached such as talk on the next process technologies and how far away they are and this is entirely relevant to both CPU and GPU technology.

2. How relevant is that to general game technology? GPGPU is going to become a much more common game engine trait and there is already a reasonably level of algorythm talk in the game engine threads.

Overall I thought it would be good to have 4 main branches of the forums.

1. 3D/ Semiconductor hardware/architecture/process and industry with various subforums making up the whole.

2. Game industry and games forums.

3. Game technology and 3D technology forums.

4. General discussion/RSPC etc.

 

[Arwin]

I wonder how relevant the structure of the forum still is. I think if I take it from my own user experience, it's the New Posts button that's currently all I'm using, with a rare subscription (but that's becoming increasingly rare).

From a professional point of view (as in 'Document Management' professional), the only reason why we still use folder like structures today is because it is a convenient way to automatically assign meta-data to the content you place in them. Then you create folders that basically consist of searches on specific meta-data or even full text entries.

I don't know anything about the current state of affairs of the forum software's capabilities to work like that (I know some form of meta-data is possible, but I don't know what kind of search features like saved searches there are), but I would definitely consider looking into that before I looked into another arbitrary reordering of the current forum structure.

 

[Rodéric]

I also only use "New Posts", but I'd be in trouble if I wanted to start a thread today, there are way too many forums and I wouldn't be sure to put it in the best place.
Although if everyone only use "New Posts", any place would do anyway...

Still I like people to have a clear & simple view of the forums the first time, and unregistered users to be able to navigate easily. (Not sure they can use "New Posts")

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, new posts is available even when you're not registered at all.

And I agree that it's good to have a good forum layout, just that to get to one, we may need to analyse the content a little more in-depth.

 

[rpg.314]

Heres my proposal based off what you said.

• 1.Chip Architecture and 3D/Semiconductor industry. With purchase decision and general hardware talk subforums. You may even want to make handheld technology a sub forum as well due to the fact that with ARM on windows, many of these architectures are about to invade the PC space.
• 2. 3D Technology & Algorithms (other subforums including 3D Programming & Tools and GPGPU) (combine elsewhere?)
• 3. Console forum = games industry forum. It seems that thats the majority of the threads.
• 4. Game engine and console technology, with 3D algorythms and tools?
• 5. Console games, PC games...
  

1. My reasoning is that theres starting to be a lot of crossover talk between llano/fusion and Sandy Bridge IGPs, various integrated graphics systems like ION also cross between the two on a regular basis and 3D semi-conductor industry is relevant to both. The forum itself has few active threads at once however CPU hardware/chipsets + 3D architectures + 3D semi-conductor industry don't have enough threads to flood the rest out of existance. It would also enable relevant threads to exist once a certain level of activity is reached such as talk on the next process technologies and how far away they are and this is entirely relevant to both CPU and GPU technology.

2. How relevant is that to general game technology? GPGPU is going to become a much more common game engine trait and there is already a reasonably level of algorythm talk in the game engine threads.

Overall I thought it would be good to have 4 main branches of the forums.

1. 3D/ Semiconductor hardware/architecture/process and industry with various subforums making up the whole.

2. Game industry and games forums.

3. Game technology and 3D technology forums.

4. General discussion/RSPC etc.

We need a Fusion forum. The existing cpu and gpu fora are too separate.

 

[argor]

what i think that need to be done is to rename Handheld Technology forum to
Handheld and embed Technology forum

 

[Squilliam]

We need a Fusion forum. The existing cpu and gpu fora are too separate.

Why keep them seperate when the chips themselves have already combined?

 

[MfA]

Will I be able to go unbanned if I curse and call the console gamers inferior species on the games forum? (I think PC&Console gaming should have separate forums.)

PS. don't put the general forum at the top.

 

[Rodéric]

People already prepend [360], [PS3] or [PC] to their topic, I don't see why we should split it up further.
If we do split, why console vs PC and not one forum for each plaform ?

We can always split later should the need arise...

 

[MfA]

I don't care as the console forum's nazi moderation policies don't carry over ... also of course, since we are the master race the PC gamers can just start threads without an identifier.

(How long do you honestly see ^^^^ going well?)

 

[AlNom]

People already prepend [360], [PS3] or [PC] to their topic, I don't see why we should split it up further.

That's more for the folks using "New Posts" and automatically seeing thread titles with the same name. There's been confusion in the past with people posting in the wrong part of the forum.

People already prepend [360], [PS3] or [PC] to their topic, I don't see why we should split it up further.
If we do split, why console vs PC and not one forum for each plaform ?

Noooo way. With attitudes like Mfa, it'd be even more of a shitfest combining both gaming sectors. I'm still sticking to the idea of a gaming general for industry-related material with two sub-forums (PC & Console Gaming Discussions). Besides, the two threads between the PC version and Console version differ so wildly, be it graphics bitching & configurations vs people talking about the game.

The current Console tech should just become Gaming Tech and moved out of Gaming entirely. Conceptually, it's more of a sub-group of 3D Tech & Algorithms anyway.

 

[Arwin]

Basically we've got the following topics:

Hardware
Software
Games
Business
Off-Topic

I think that's a good start for the main level.

Then for the sublevels, we can make a few sub-forums, though I'd sooner start using meta-tags for anything below that, or only create them if there are topics that get new threads each month. Some suggestions:

Hardware
- Chips
- Displays

Software
- Middleware
- Services
- Benchmarking

Games
- PC
- Console
- Embedded

Business
- Platforms
- Marketing
- Sales Figures

Off-Topic
- General
- RSPC

 

[MfA]

I think business can be a single forum and I'd divide hardware between GPUs, consoles and everything else. Software just needs development and benchmarking I think.

 

[Arwin]

I think business can be a single forum and I'd divide hardware between GPUs, consoles and everything else. Software just needs development and benchmarking I think.

Good suggestions - Business is small enough. The reason why I thought figures could get a separate subforum is because it is something you go to for reference. If there are only figures topics in there, they don't get lost so quicky.

Which reminds me - some of the forums may be further optimised by adding some sticky topics to draw recurring fire.

 

[Rodéric]

mmh okay what about :

• News
• Jobs
• Business
• Hardware
  • Chips
  • Displays
• Software
  • Programming
  • Tools
• Games
  • PC
  • Consoles
  • Handhelds
• Off-Topic
  • General
  • RSPC
  • Feedback

(Likely business & jobs could be merged as one)

 

[MfA]

If hardware has to be split in two, I'd split it into 3D/gaming (GPUs, consoles, and 3D) and everything else (talking about desktop CPUs, PC hardware setups and displays).

It corresponds most closely to the present setup apart from rolling the console hardware forum into the 3D forum. Huge plus, since you can then simply copy over the old threads and get a smooth transition. By extension I think most existing forums should be able to be fit in somewhere.

I'd do something like this :

News Forums
    News
    Jobs
General Forums
    3D
        Architecture and Chips < the original plus part of the 3D beginner's questions
        Development and Algorithms < part of the 3D beginners questions, 3D Technology & Algorithms, GPGPU Technology & Programming, part of CellPerformance@B3D
            subforum link to Game Engine Performance and Features
        Benchmarking, Reviews and Drivers < 3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices
    Hardware
        General < Video Technology, Displays, & HTPC, part of Hardware & Software Talk, Processor & Chipset Technology, part of CellPerformance@B3D
        Purchase Decisions Help
    Software General < part of Hardware & Software talk, Unix, Mac, & BSD
    Business and Ethics < 3D & Semiconductor Industry, Politics & Ethics of Technology
Embedded Platform Forums
    Consoles < Console Forum, part of Console Technolog
        subforum Game Engine Performance and Features < part of Console Technology
        subforum link to Console Games
    Handhelds < Handheld Technology
        subforum link to Handheld Games
Games Forums
    Console Games
    Handheld Games
    PC Games
Off-Topic Forums
    General
    RSPC
Site Forums
    Feedback
    Folding For Beyond3D Team #32377

The forums which I indicated for parting out are relatively small, so this should be doable manually, except for console technology ... where you'd probably only want to do it for threads active in the last month or so.

PS. on reflection, console technology and handheld technology are just too large, too active and too specific to roll into others. Consolidation and streamlining the forum index is one thing, but trying to rip apart existing communities is simply a bad idea.

PPS. why is PC hardware/software part of the core forums and consoles/handhelds in their own section you ask? Well ... most of the time the PC drives 3D, mobile is big money but also a follower technology wise, consoles are only really interesting hardware wise during their upgrade cycles (development/algorithms are part of the core forums). The hardware discussed in the 3D Architecture forum is essentially PC hardware ... so might as well put the general hardware forum which also generally talks about PC hardware next to it.

PPPS. as for the engine stuff in console technology, can't say I found those kinds of threads ever interesting enough to read myself ... leave em in there, it seems to make them happy. As for attracting developers, I think their presence is always a statistical anomaly ... I don't think there is much you can do about it. Can you make a single subforum thread show up in multiple master forums though with that vBulletin expansion? If so an engine discussion subforum of the console forum with the threads there visible on the Development and Algorithms forum might be an option.

 

[Valzic]

Since these changes are what will be Beyond3D for a year or so, It seems to me that we might contemplate looking to differentiate Tablets from handheld.

With the explosion of tablets coming and with lots of competition, the gaming and such will start to differentiate Tablets from what we traditionally have seen from handhelds. We will start to run OS's that will enable PC type gaming more than what we traditionally did on phones or existing handhelds.

It is not that way today but won't be long in the next few months so its just a suggestion to be proactive.

I also live by the "new posts" button.