Formula 1 - 2021 Season

[Deleted member 2197]

Qatar Grand Prix: Fair racing debate rages on between Hamilton and Verstappen - BBC Sport
November 20, 2021

After taking an outstanding pole position for Sunday's Qatar Grand Prix, Hamilton said it was still "not clear" as to what is and is not acceptable when racing for position following the row over Verstappen's driving in Brazil last weekend. Yet Verstappen insisted that, after a drivers' briefing with race director Michael Masi on Friday evening that lasted more than an hour, "at the end, it was pretty clear".

The other drivers who spoke on the topic pretty much all agreed with Hamilton.
Their comments came as they sat next to each other in the post-qualifying news conference, and during a weekend over which relations between their respective teams have reached a new low.
...
Most have been reluctant to talk about it publicly, but both Charles Leclerc of Ferrari and McLaren's Daniel Ricciardo suggested at the start of the weekend that this had been a shifting of what they understood to be acceptable racing. Leclerc said he thought the decision meant "overtaking on the outside is going to be very difficult". Ricciardo added that: "You could say it was too hard because both went off the track, neither made the corner."

After qualifying, Hamilton and Verstappen were asked whether the animated discussion in the drivers' briefing had come to a conclusion as to what was hard and fair racing.

Verstappen said: "It is always trying to align everyone in having the same process. Everyone is different and has their own way of racing and defending and overtaking, and it's very hard for the FIA to get everyone on the same line. They decide but every driver has a different opinion. "Yesterday it was all about sharing their opinions and the FIA explaining their process of thought behind it. We came a long way. It was a very long briefing. I think at the end it was pretty clear."

"No," Hamilton said. "It's not clear. Every driver except for Max - most drivers - was asking for clarity but it wasn't very clear. It's still not clear what the limits of the track are. "It's clearly not the white line anymore when overtaking. So we just go for it. We just asked for consistency. If it's the same as the last race, it should be the same for all of us in those scenarios and that's fine."

 

[Bludd]

yes my boi finally get on the podium

 

[zed]

He's a fin toucher. Keep an eye on that guy, that sort of behaviour can escalate.

Oh that explains the twinkle in Raikonnens and Bottas eye whenever they are around him

 

[Pete]

Nothing like tuning into the race to see Max and Bottas not starting in 2nd and 3rd. They both got penalties for ignoring yellow flags during Gasly’s Q3 off. For a minute I thought Merc’s protest about T4 in Brazil worked.

Interesting to hear one of Alpine’s head bee guys (Budiowski [sic]) say they were okay gambling on a one-stop because a front tire blowout is controllable (understeer), whereas a rear blowout isn’t (oversteer). Also heard it mentioned I think in the BBC podcast that aero comes into play above 125kph, below which it’s mostly mechanical, which could mean Alpine have a good aero package. Hope they get their mechanical sorted for next year’s tires.

Ricciardo’s car had a sensor malfunction that signalled low fuel, so he was in fuel saving mode for most of the race (he said up to two seconds a lap slower), which explains his poor performance compared to Lando (who had to make an unplanned extra stop because of a puncture).

Bottas was slow to get going (not just in his awful start) because he knew he was one-stopping, so he was bringing his tires in slowly. Unusual for Merc to gamble going that long with tires, but I guess they were trying to get him into Verstappen’s window? He did something like 34 laps on a used medium (with race start, full fuel, and in traffic!) when I think Pirelli recommended 40 laps for the hard and a two-stopper.

Checo’s race was a bit compromised because RB were deciding on the fly whether to two- or one-stop, so his pace wasn’t ideal for either strat.

I’d love to know what happened to Gasly. I guess AT set the car up for quali and not the race?

I’m also vaguely curious why everyone thought Stroll had a great race. The intensity of my curiosity matches that of his post-race interviews: cold fish.

 

[Bludd]

ham and vet can be level on points going into abu dhabi. i think if hamilton wins and vettel second in saudi

i remember in 2012 when it came down to last race and alonso was stuck behind petrov, that was such a hard race to watch for me

 

[Pete]

ham and vet can be level on points going into abu dhabi. i think if hamilton wins and vettel second in saudi

Vettel never made Hamilton sweat that late into the season. . But it’s crazy how tight it is. I think one of Vettel’s RB years went to the last race. Nico’s, too. But this year seems special. Maybe it’s the accidents, maybe the simultaneous mini-championships down the field. Next year has a lot to live up to.

 

[Bludd]

Frank Williams has died at the age of 79
rest in peace, FW

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2021/11/28/sir-frank-williams-1942-2021/

also here's a touching story about Frank
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2021/11/28/about-fw/

 

[Davros]

RIP Sir Frank

 

[Pete]

Apparently RB were forced to use their high downforce wing in Brazil because their low/medium downforce wings were vibrating themselves to pieces. Does that explain some of the pace difference there? I haven’t bothered to look up what RB ran in previous years, though they do have a faster engine this year and so can push a little more drag. I guess we’ll find out tomorrow in quali, as RB brought their medium wing and Lewis should be using his almost-new Brazil engine.

LeClerc sent his car backwards at 150mph into the (thankfully three-layer) TekPro barriers with five minutes to go in P2. He lost the back end on a fast left, maybe on a painted surface? Could be a full rebuild. Both rear wheels were askew, and who knows what happened to the side and front as the car swung 180° to end up head on in the barriers. Do they have the budget for another new chassis? If he only gets a repaired one, does that let McLaren back into the fight for P3?

Some teams set their best P2 times on Hards or Mediums (McLarens, Mercs, maybe an Alpine and an Aston?), so the fastest times aren’t super clear.

Couple of tetchy moments (aka chopping across) between hot-lappers and dawdlers (Verstappen and Ocon, Vettel and a Haas) and some scary ones, like Hamilton arriving at the last turn at speed to find four cars to weave through (three in his left and one on his right). Because of the walls everywhere, a lot of turns are basically blind turns. The race should be intense. No way this goes the distance without a safety car. I’d love to know the strategy calls that RB and Merc make with that in mind.

 

[Pete]

The season that keeps on giving! Quali didn’t disappoint. Remember the race starts at a weird time, on the half hour.

Spoiler

Mercedes looked on the back foot in Q3, going out first but not going fastest until their last runs. Max left his best lap for last, starting after the Mercs. He was up by over two tenths on Lewis after sector 2 but locked up and hit the outside wall coming out of the last corner, breaking a suspension arm. His lap was on the ragged edge, almost grazing the wall in sector one. Hopefully he doesn’t have to change a gearbox and lines up third behind the two Mercs. Valtteri actually clipped Kimi in Q3, and the Sky guys kept talking up that Red Bull might protest the warning Lewis got for ignoring a flag in FP3 I think, so the grid may not be set.

Giovinazzi went really well, but Kimi, who’s retiring and put no sim time in a new track with 27 corners still qualified only two tenths behind. Ricciardo was half a sec behind Norris. Dunno what Ricciardo’s lap was like, but Lando was held up slightly in the last corner by a pitting Perez (who at that point, before everyone’s final runs, was top in Q3).

Edit: Bonus Alonso reaction.

 

[Kaotik]

The season that keeps on giving! Quali didn’t disappoint. Remember the race starts at a weird time, on the half hour.

Spoiler

Mercedes looked on the back foot in Q3, going out first but not going fastest until their last runs. Max left his best lap for last, starting after the Mercs. He was up by over two tenths on Lewis after sector 2 but locked up and hit the outside wall coming out of the last corner, breaking a suspension arm. His lap was on the ragged edge, almost grazing the wall in sector one. Hopefully he doesn’t have to change a gearbox and lines up third behind the two Mercs. Valtteri actually clipped Kimi in Q3, and the Sky guys kept talking up that Red Bull might protest the warning Lewis got for ignoring a flag in P3 I think, so the grid may not be set.

Giovinazzi went really well, but Kimi, who’s retiring and put no sim time in a new track with 27 corners still qualified only two tenths behind. Ricciardo was half a sec behind Norris. Dunno what Ricciardo’s lap was like, but Lando was held up slightly in the last corner by a pitting Perez (who at that point, before everyone’s final runs, was top in Q3).

Edit: Bonus Alonso reaction.

Spoiler

Not to mention Bottas hit Kimi on his last flying lap

 

[Pete]

I’m not even going to try to summarize that race, but watch it if you can. Not the best racing—maybe typical of a street track—but it was wild. Wild!

Edit: No specific race spoilers below, just general comments. Maybe wait til tomorrow, give everyone a chance to see it.

Spoiler

I feel like I don’t have enough time in racing to see Max’s actions as benignly competitive (if that even makes sense). Commentators say Max has matured, but I see the same impatient, tunnel-vision tactics as at the beginning of his career. Amazing driver, though. He and Lewis are still the class of the field.

I mean, there is racing (win or go home) logic to what Max does on track, but for a more Machiavellian definition of racing to mine. And he’s quite churlish when people disagree with his interpretation. Churlish is the most charitable way of describing some of his on-track moves (antics?) today. It’s honestly incredible that he ended where he did. Astonishing.

Still not a fan of Crofty’s race commentary.

Press conference with the podium sitters (not the one before the podium ceremony, the sit-down one in the press room after the TV interviews in the pen). Worth the ten minutes.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I’m not even going to try to summarize that race, but watch it if you can. Not the best racing—maybe typical of a street track—but it was wild. Wild!

Spoiler

I feel like I don’t have enough time in racing to see Max’s actions as benignly competitive (if that even makes sense). Commentators say Max has matured, but I see the same impatient, tunnel-vision tactics as at the beginning of his career. Amazing driver, though. He and Lewis are still the class of the field.

Still not a fan of Crofty’s race commentary.

It was a spectacle.

Spoiler

I find myself hitting mute when Crofty starts going on.

 

[Bludd]

insane race

now perfectly poised for abu dhabi but there will surely be a sting in the tail. shenanigans up the wazoo

 

[Bludd]

"Martin Brundle: Max Verstappen must stop these tactics vs Lewis Hamilton for his legacy"
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/2...is-legacy-but-what-a-title-showdown-well-have

 

[Pete]

Technical, dense article about the troubles RB are having with their medium/low downforce rear wings: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...lues-to-red-bulls-rear-wing-problems/6839768/

 

[Pete]

Masi's race notes for the final GP reminds drivers that FIA can remove points for shenanigans. Shrug. Too lazy to find a better article (not focusing on Max): https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59593834

Channel 4 in the UK will show the finale live on free TV!

I don't really want to relive the last race, but I thought a YouTube comment I read was worth highlighting: Max drives like a bully. It's a remarkably concise view of his racing style, IMO (naive though my opinion may be). It's not a totally descriptive complete or useful description, but I think it's better than just calling Max aggressive. Perez is an elbows-out, sometimes aggressive racer, but I'm not sure I'd call him a bully.

Edit: A decent short bio of Max's racing career and style: https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59555388

 

[Pete]

Terrific interview of Alain Prost by Nico Rosberg on Nico’s YouTube channel. An hour-long conversation with a lot of time spent on the impact of bitter rivalries.

Cool (if true) insight by Benji27 in the comments regarding a small incident spiraling into a bitter rivalry:

I know many think Nico was talking about the 2014 Monaco qualifying as the moment the relationship between him and Lewis began to spiral. However since he refers to something minor the engineer(s) pointed out, I wonder if he was referencing the engine map mode incident at Bahrain in 2014. Nico and Lewis had a great wheel to wheel battle on track. Lewis came out on top, but it was revealed later Nico was using a engine map mode that both teams had agreed not to use. This allowed Nico to really challenge Lewis in the late stages of the race. Maybe the engine mode change was an accident, but the engineers told Lewis it was intentional.

 

[Pete]

That’ll do nicely.

Spoiler

Well, that was unexpected. I’d say excellent team performance by RB with the double tow, but Max’s second Q3 lap was even faster without the tow. What are the odds the title comes down to Lewis hunting down Max after the last stops? Max should get away quicker and will get the undercut because softs, so the question becomes how good is Lewis’ medium tire pace and how badly will traffic affect each runner?

Eventually I’ll have the energy to figure out what happened to Bottas and Perez. Vettel had an event-filled qualifying.

The helmet cam is very cool but could do with some stabilization.

 

[zed]

A perfect season climax, Speaking dutch myself and also due to him not yet winning a title verses Lewis's 7, normally I would want the title virgin to win but man its hard to root for max.