Formula 1 - 2019 Season

[Bludd]

Boo, that sucked. I was so hoping Hamilton could overtake Vettel before the checkered flag, and that would have been a less controversial ending, but this was not good.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Jolyon Palmer column: Why Sebastian Vettel deserved his penalty

By the letter of the law, Vettel was guilty.

He either crowded another driver off the circuit - Hamilton into the wall on the exit of Turn Four, to the point where the Mercedes driver had to anchor on the brakes to avoid a collision.

Or, as his defence said, his natural momentum took him across the full width of the circuit. But in that case he is guilty of rejoining the circuit in an unsafe manner, as he was not in full control of his car, to the extent that he ran Hamilton off the road in an unsafe manner.

One of these scenarios has to be correct.

If he was forced to run all the way into Hamilton, that's not safe. If he wasn't, then he deliberately did it, and that's not fair and deserves a penalty.

You can't have it both ways, and you need to have it both ways to avoid the penalty here.
....

Vettel's incident was almost a carbon copy of Max Verstappen's with Kimi Raikkonen at the final chicane in Japan last year, just 11 races ago.

In Japan, Verstappen locked up under pressure from the Finn, cut the corner, and in rejoining he forced Raikkonen off and kept the place.

The Red Bull driver picked up a five-second penalty, and few complained about it afterwards. The general reaction was that Verstappen was too aggressive and deserved it. And I can guarantee you the Ferrari camp would have agreed with that penalty at the time.

In fact, Vettel said so publicly - stating that the driver in Raikkonen's position should not always have to take avoiding action.
....

In my opinion Vettel could have given Hamilton space on the exit of Turn Four. I don't think that his car did end up completely on the right-hand side of the track because of its natural momentum.

He had a huge snap of oversteer on corner entry, causing him to go off onto the grass.

Then another smaller oversteer as he rejoins the circuit, another small twitch on the wheel which was neither here nor there, and then he continues to veer towards the right, making no concerted effort to turn left, following his line around the corner and leaving his rival no space on his outside.

It's a move I can completely understand. I - and most former drivers - would have done the same. It's a defensive instinct to try and hold your position in a moment of panic.

But the fact that others would have done the same doesn't make it acceptable.

People should also bear in mind that the stewards have a lot more data to use in terms of speeds, camera angles and throttle/brake traces than everybody else. It doesn't mean they always get it right but here I believe that data could be significant.

They interpreted it to mean that Vettel did not need to keep moving right, that he could have made another choice, and that was decisive in the penalty being awarded.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Palmer's as good a writer as he was a driver.

If a driver is out of control then obviously it is not always possible to return to the track in a safe manner. I think most people interpret that rule meaning you shouldn't carelessly rejoin the track but there are obviously situations where a driver might not have that ability.

Assuming Vettel did loose control, what was the alternative? According to other drivers braking or trying to steer left more would have resulted in a spin. In that case he might have collected Hamilton on his way into the wall.

When I first saw the incident from the original overhead shot I did think it looked like Vettel was steering to the right to block Hamilton off but on the onboard shots it looks like the back broke out and Vettel had to correct, moving the car to the right.

As Ricciardo mentioned, the same happened to him and Hamilton during the 2016 Monaco GP, with no penalty being handed out.

The letter of the law really is a bit of a daft comment imo because there are plenty of laws to leave room for interpretation or mitigating situations.

Stewards made a big mistake as far as I'm concerned. Nobody wants to see this kind of decisions, especially since at the end nothing even happened.

Another thing I don't get is why the stewards aren't transparent and explain why they made the decision backed up with all the video and telemetry they have.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Another thing I don't get is why the stewards aren't transparent and explain why they made the decision backed up with all the video and telemetry they have.

I think the stewards will explain more once the Ferrari appeal is complete. With telemetry feeds from all cars they should know exactly whether or not the driver is acting defensively or trying to maintain control.

 

[entity279]

Well the rule seems pretty clear right? You leave the track, you must re-enter it safely. To the rule, it doesn't matter if you have any control of the car or not.
There wasn't much interpretation to be made so the stewards aren't at fault. Is the rule idiotic? Absolutely.

Until the rule changes, we can only hope that drivers don't complain when things like this happen, even if they would be entitled to.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Until the rule changes, we can only hope that drivers don't complain when things like this happen, even if they would be entitled to.

If it keeps happening the stewards might be the only ones watching the races.

 

[entity279]

If it keeps happening the stewards might be the only ones watching the races.

Absolutely. They've completly ruined 10 (really exiting) laps of last race. 2-3 incidents like that and most of us will lose whatever appetite we have left

 

[hoom]

Well I think he deserved the penalty.
There is clearly an ongoing problem of the rules not being very evenly applied though.

Despite not good practice & poor qualifying Kvyat managed another clean race & held his starting 10th place

 

[Pete]

I'm still leaning toward no pen, but the funny part is that even if Vet had left a car width to the wall, Ham looks like he'd have overtaken off track: https://msmproduction.s3-eu-west-1...._canadian_grand_prix_vettel_off_composite.jpg

Though I thought the car width rule was on corner entry, not exit. I guess it also kicks in if the other guy has a wheel alongside you. And that may not be the best pic to know who was where, when.

 

[Bludd]

There's been a million of these out of the tunnel in Monaco and missing the chicane. Even though there are claims of consistency, it's not consistent.

However when they put a penalty on Vettel, +5 seconds was the most lenient. I just reiterate my wish that Hamilton had overtook Vettel to win.

 

[Bludd]

Not directly F1 related, but former F1 drivers Kazuki Nakajima, Sebastien Buemi and Fernando Alonso won the 24 hours of Le Mans and the WEC championship in a Toyota LMP1 hybrid car number 8. It was a lucky win because the other Toyota hybrid, number 7, had been quicker all race but hit a problem at the very end of the race forcing it to have to enter the pits. Thus Kamui Kobayashi, Jose Maria Lopez and Mike Conway had to settle for second in the race. They didn't have a chance to win the WEC championship in normal circumstances.

So Fernando Alonso is the second to win a world championship in two different disciplines on 4 wheels after Petter Solberg (WRC and WRX), but the first to win a world championship in two different asphalt disciplines on 4 wheels.

Next year there are new regulations (hypercar) which replaces LMP.

 

[DJ12]

I'm still leaning toward no pen, but the funny part is that even if Vet had left a car width to the wall, Ham looks like he'd have overtaken off track: https://msmproduction.s3-eu-west-1...._canadian_grand_prix_vettel_off_composite.jpg

Though I thought the car width rule was on corner entry, not exit. I guess it also kicks in if the other guy has a wheel alongside you. And that may not be the best pic to know who was where, when.

I think it was a harsh penalty, but lets be honest here, Vettel knew exactly what he was doing, once he had control he could've easily left space, yet he kept going right to close the space.

 

[entity279]

once he had control he could've easily left space

No

 

[Pete]

I like Chain Bear's take on the incident (assuming his steering angles are correct):

 

[Bludd]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00518

Joe Saward ruminates on a cost cap for F1

 

[hoom]

Honda has another new-spec engine this race.
This apparently is a decent power increase vs previous one which they say was mainly reliability.

Only putting it on 3 of the 4 cars though: Kvyat is taking a grid penalty but they're going to keep Albon on the older engine & avoid the penalty.

 

[hoom]

Hmm, now they've updated the story with the drivers saying its not actually a large power improvement *Le shrug*

 

[Bludd]

Hmm, now they've updated the story with the drivers saying its not actually a large power improvement *Le shrug*

They are just hedging.

Merc for the win this weekend *yawn*? They were fastest last year though Bottas went backwards in the race.

 

[hoom]

So Ferrari belatedly tried to challenge the ruling on basis of new info, was denied as not being anything new.

Hamilton himself is now under investigation for a possible unsafe re-entry in Practice 2.

 

[Kaotik]

Oh look, Hamilton looses control and goes out from track, returns to track in a manner which forces someone else (Verstappen) out > no penalty. How surprising