Formula 1 - 2009 Season

Jezus D12 shut up. I'm sorry, but things like this just happen. Do we have to go and list similair things that happend true the years that nobody cared about? I say a kimi exhaust or a kimi tyre with a big spot on it and kimi keeping on driving knowing it would fail sooner or later (and it did, almost crashing hard into I believe Sato). There far more serious ''offence'' than what happend with Alonso. Human error, nothing more.

Whats next? Suspending a team for a driving braking too late and causing a crash?
 
I will say it again: I have no problem with Renault being penalised for this, but banning them from a race is too harsh a punishment.
 
I remembered everything that happened when I fractured my skull up to the point I hit the concrete middle "crash" barrier.

But then they told me I wouldn't be back to work for at least 2 years yet I was back to work 6 months ago after having 7 months rehab. Everyone is different I don't think there is something you would call "normal" in regard to head injuries.

Like Massa I was touch and go but made a rapid recovery within days (although I felt like I'd gone 12 rounds with Mike Tyson) hopefully Massa will be the same.
 
tongue_of_colicab said:
Jezus D12 shut up. I'm sorry, but things like this just happen. Do we have to go and list similair things that happend true the years that nobody cared about? I say a kimi exhaust or a kimi tyre with a big spot on it and kimi keeping on driving knowing it would fail sooner or later (and it did, almost crashing hard into I believe Sato). There far more serious ''offence'' than what happend with Alonso. Human error, nothing more.

Whats next? Suspending a team for a driving braking too late and causing a crash?
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I'm not going to argue in favour of the race ban or against it, but I find your reply rather interesting.

So because similar things have already happened and weren't fined in the past, they are not allowed to learn from past experiences and tighten the security messures? I also would think that some parts flying off are less dangerous than others - a wheel falling off (i.e. after an accident) is known to have caused deaths just recently. Flying springs obviously come close, but since the springs aren't a part that are worked on during pitstops, I guess the error margin is smaller and less likely to happen. Since in every race, a car changes all 4 tyres at least once, the safety requirements obviously have to be a lot higher.

Human error can obviously happen, but in areas where the risk can be fatal to anybody, it shouldn't - hence why such hard penalties are and should be given.

If a race ban is the right choice - well, who knows. There might be a more sane punishments outthere that doesn't cause Alonso to be punished (since he didn't do anything wrong). On the other hand, this is a team-sport. You win and lose with the team. If the team c*cks up, the driver has to too - just as in the opposite scenario.
 
Do we have all the facts of this Renault incident. I can't find any comments from Renault about it. I would like to know exactly how it went down, before I can decide how I feel about the penalty. The whole situation went pretty fast, but the accusations made it sound like it was some great plot from Renault. What I saw was Alonso goes to pits, leaves goes bit wide in the first corner drives a bit and then the Tire is off. Did Renault really now that the tire is going to come off without the wire keeping attached, how fast was the guy who was working on the tire able to tell that it didn't go as planned. I mean the whole thing went from good to bad pretty quick.

I have to say that this penalty will have many payers other than Renault. I've heard that the Valencia GP was already struggling to sell tickets and with Alonso gone I can imagine that some people are returning their tickets. Off course with the recent incident's it's understandable and imo right thing to enforce the rules a bit harder, still it would be good to make only the quilty ones pay. I for one would like to see Alonso on the grid.
 
I don't think Renault are being punished for not fixing the wheel correctly, pit stops are a stressful time and mistakes will understandibly happen. It's the fact they knew the wheel wasn't attached and didn't radio Alonso to stop. Loose wheels travel a long way at high speed and have killed or injured too many people for the problem to be treated as a simple 'nurse the car back to the pit and fix it.'
 
Martin Brundle on Massa, Renault and safety
By the time I started racing in F1 in the eighties, fuel was now held in well protected rubber bladder tanks but drivers had been moved to the front of the car for better weight distribution, so many of those from my generation who are still alive limp badly.
Click to expand...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8170736.stm

Also, Autosport is reporting that BMW have called an 'emergency' press conference at their Munich headquarters tomorrow and that BMW may announce here that they are pulling out of F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77398
 
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DJ12 said:
Ask yourself why they didn't fit the wheel properly. To gain a few tenths?

They knew the wheel wasn't on properly and let the car go out anyway.
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The only times that pit crews let go a car after a botched pit stop were when they had real problem, like fuel rig or wheel nut not coming off. Typically those pit stop took quite a lot longer too. Otherwise there is no way pit crews would let the car go, if they knew they had botched the pit stop because it's a race ender for the car.

Beside this was not the first botched pit stop or parts falling off cars. We have seen cars limped back after a botched pit stop before. I don't see this as any different, except the circumstances. Which like someone described a kneejerk reaction.

Like I said before why didn't Red Bull get the banned too from what they did earlier this year ? Or Brawn because they were trying to gain a few tenths too with the new part that failed and caused Massa accident.
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77400

Well, so they wasted their biggest chance to win the championship in 2008 to create a piece of shit car for 2009. They were the biggest proponent of KERS, which was a waste.

They spent years with Williams not winning championships, they bought Sauber and won once. Great and now they are pulling out. They didn't achieve anything in F1.
 
V3 said:
The only times that pit crews let go a car after a botched pit stop were when they had real problem, like fuel rig or wheel nut not coming off. Typically those pit stop took quite a lot longer too. Otherwise there is no way pit crews would let the car go, if they knew they had botched the pit stop because it's a race ender for the car.
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I have seen plenty of pitstops where the team have been fumbling around getting the pin in the wheel nut, fair enough it's only a couple of tenths but they still don't let the car out.

At the end of the day they thought they would have a chance of winning and the guy couldn't handle the pressure and messed up. It is a little hard to believe that they didn't know it wasn't on properly either seeing as they can tell whats happening on the car down to the minute details with all the sensors on them.
Or Brawn because they were trying to gain a few tenths too with the new part that failed and caused Massa accident.
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It wasn't a new part and it didn't break because someone didn't fit the required safety mechanism.
 
If Sauber doesn't continue on his own again and thus the team folds (maybe Bernie will have something to say about it regarding contracts between BMW Sauber and FOM), where would the drivers go? Kubica totally deserves to drive in F1, but Nick Heidfeld has been in F1 since 2000 and he's never been higher than 5th in the drivers' world championship.
 
chavvdarrr said:
Bets who leaves next?
I say Toyota.
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Yeah, but the rumours about Toyota have been going for a long, long time. There are rumours about Renault too.

I don't know, both are plausible but in Renault's case, they have shown that they can bounce back. Toyota have never really been anywhere, though.
 
Toyota will stay, Renault will go. They are already offering the team to wealthy folk right now.

hope BMW don't completely go and offer engines to some teams. I bet Williams would be front runners this season if they still had BMW engines.

Toyota have a good car and bad drivers.
 
DJ12 said:
Toyota will stay, Renault will go. They are already offering the team to wealthy folk right now.

hope BMW don't completely go and offer engines to some teams. I bet Williams would be front runners this season if they still had BMW engines.

Toyota have a good car and bad drivers.
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I am hearing conflicting stories about who had and who hadn't signed the new Concorde agreement.

BMW were waiting for board approval and James Allen says that one other manufacturer is too, but Joe Saward says that BMW were the only manufacturer holding out.

I hope Renault stays, the team is a proper racing team and not just a corporate entity trying to hit targets (like BMW) and they have more to show for their F1 effort than Toyota.
 
Bradwurst eating, leaderhosen wearing tze germans pull out after 1 lousy season :') Oh, and btw, thanks for pushing KERS so hard guys! I hope Kubica and heidfeld give the finger to BMW. They screwed their season from the start. Now screwed their year (because I doubt there will be any upgrades) and maybe even their career as how knows if they might get a seat again. They should just stop driving for BMW and make BMW look like idiots and have them pay a big fine for not being able to run their cars (though in that case they will just put somebody else in the car, but that is just as bad press, running at the back like some minardi but alot worse). With Massa out, outleast Kubica should try and get a seat at Ferrari for the rest of the year.
 
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