Formula 1 - 2009 Season

[Dave Baumann]

Lol wtf, so if 3 teams actually are smarter than the others it should be declaired illigal?

Reading the reports of the hearing so far there may be an issue in that it appears that the FIA haven't been consistent - evidently Renault spotted this some time ago and asked Charlie if they could do it and he said no at that time (though its not clear if it was for last years car or this years).

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

That is what Renault say. But since 3 teams did get permission I wouldnt be suprised if Renault actually did things a bit different making it illigal. I mean, if it really was exactly the same concept I doubt there would have been a problem as I suppose the diffuser 3 also submitted their designs way up front.

 

[V3]

It's legal, so onto China GP.

 

[DJ12]

Like Bludd said, he has gotten himself to the trouble he's in (excluding the "lie-gate", where the blame isn't his alone)
And the reason that incident keeps being brought up is probably the fact that it shows that he's being treated better, if anything, not worse than others.

So because they applied the rules (incidentally that they created a few seasons earlier for Schumacher) that shows he gets treated better?

Hamilton gets penalised for the slightest thing he does wrong when others can really put lives at risk and get away scott free.

I don't think it's Hamilton but Mosleys problem with Mclaren thats the route of it, but to say he gets treated better than others is you clearly applying your own bias to the proceedings.

So difussers are declared legal.... again.... good.

Well done to Brawn, Williams and the other team (who's name escapes me) but I really don't think it makes that much difference. Brawn would've still won the last 2 races anyway they are that much faster than everyone else, even within the difusser crew.

 

[catisfit]

Hamilton was helped onto the track because it was safer than leaving him where he was and seeing as every car was flying off the track at that point I don't think you can really argue with it.

So because they applied the rules (incidentally that they created a few seasons earlier for Schumacher) that shows he gets treated better?

Schumacher was beached on a kerb, half of his car was still on the track. The rule wasn't created for him, it was just that particular event which brought the rule into focus.

Hamilton on the other hand was no longer on the circuit, and was in an incident zone with several other drivers. The race had been nullified, there were no more cars approaching that area at speed, and they had to bring a crane over to lift him and put him on the track.

Even arguing that these two incidents are the same is ridiculous.

For what it's worth, I don't think there's a particular pro- or anti-Hamilton stance anywhere in the FIA. Hamilton supporters see events favourable to him as normal, and those not in his favour as some kind of conspiracy. Hamilton dislikers see things the other way around. In reality it seems pretty much down the middle to me-he's just the latest in a long line of drivers who push everything (himself, his car, rules and sportsmanship) to the limit in order to win, and inevitably oversteps the mark at times.

 

[Kaotik]

So because they applied the rules (incidentally that they created a few seasons earlier for Schumacher) that shows he gets treated better?

Hamilton gets penalised for the slightest thing he does wrong when others can really put lives at risk and get away scott free.

I don't think it's Hamilton but Mosleys problem with Mclaren thats the route of it, but to say he gets treated better than others is you clearly applying your own bias to the proceedings.

So difussers are declared legal.... again.... good.

Well done to Brawn, Williams and the other team (who's name escapes me) but I really don't think it makes that much difference. Brawn would've still won the last 2 races anyway they are that much faster than everyone else, even within the difusser crew.

Again I'm waiting for even single example of this "penalised for the slightest thing he does wrong when others can really put lives at risk and get away scott free"

The rules said marshals couldn't help to push cars on the track anymore (they could when schumacher was pushed, but after that incident they changed it so they couldn't anymore)
The sad part was that the rules didn't specificly say you couldn't still use tractor/lifter to do it, but it was 100% surely meant to be that way (common sense!)

 

[infinity4]

Lol wtf, so if 3 teams actually are smarter than the others it should be declaired illigal? Besides that if competition is your point there wouldnt have been a point in racing for like almost a decade with the Ferrari dominance and later only Ferrari vs Mclaren. Now its brawn and 2 teams that appear to be very close.

I guess it is tough luck for everyone else that invested for this season only to be let down by one component.

This season is well and truly over - There is no way the rest of the field will close up on an inevitable points gap when they bring out their cars. By the time they make diffusers, the trio would have improved in other areas.

 

[Bludd]

The FIA declare the trick diffusers legal

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74475

 

[Rurouni]

So right now the question would be which other team can bring out the new diffuser the fastest?

And when the diffuser teams will fit KERS into their cars...

IIRC, the reason Brawn GP doesn't use KERS isn't because they don't have the system ready, but more because initially they would use Honda engine, but they switched to Mercedes engine which is heavier (but probably faster)...

 

[Bludd]

It's not as easy as just slapping a new diffuser on. The rear diffuser is fed by the aero stuff at the front, so a new front wing and new gearbox casing and rear suspension (this is especially concerning for Red Bull) and maybe even a completely new undertray.

So, it's not just the rear diffuser, because most of the car's aerodynamic devices have to be catered to the needs of the rear diffuser.

Anyway, the FIA is saying they will release the full reasoning "in due course".

 

[Phil]

Again I'm waiting for even single example of this "penalised for the slightest thing he does wrong when others can really put lives at risk and get away scott free"

How about Massa overtaking Trulli (?) at Fujii last year with practically no room at all, using also the entrance of the pitlane. Now if that wasn't dangerous - yet, this wasn't even investigated.

I'm haveb't been a Hamilton supporter from the beginning, and I think it's pretty obvious that the FIA is watching every one of his steps very carefully. The hate might be directed at McLaren, but that hasn't stopped them from punishing just about everything that Hamilton does.

 

[Kaotik]

How about Massa overtaking Trulli (?) at Fujii last year with practically no room at all, using also the entrance of the pitlane. Now if that wasn't dangerous - yet, this wasn't even investigated.

That wasn't even close to being dangerous, and there was plenty of room too, compared to several pitlane passes in the past (Which none of led to investigatons)

 

[catisfit]

The FIA seemed quite happy with his erratic driving behind the safety car directly causing an accident at Fuji in 2007...

It's incidents like this which all too readily slip the mind of the conspiracy theorists.

 

[DJ12]

That wasn't even close to being dangerous, and there was plenty of room too, compared to several pitlane passes in the past (Which none of led to investigatons)

And this is why there's no point even discussing it with you.

Pleanty of room? Not dangerous?

Seems like someone has forgotten the incident....

Here have another look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0i_4MEL9vM

 

[Kaotik]

I need to try to find a video of really tight cases on pitlane, there has been many cases where there has been barely room for a newspaper between the two cars, and no-one ever thought it should be investigated.

And ye, that rain/safetycar incident on Hamilton is perfect example, if Hamilton is treated different, he's treated better - he breaks the rules, other driver gets penalty

 

[Rurouni]

I know it isn't as easy as slapping new diffuser... basically my question is which team will put out a new design the fastest? Do you see some teams just abandoning 2009 car and focus on 2010 car? Do you think the rule for 2010 would allow dd diffuser? since it's against the 'spirit of the rules', so it's natural that 2010 would close this loop hole.. which probably the smaller teams would just opt out on this diffuser battle and focus on the 2010 car.

 

[Bludd]

I think Red Bull (and thus Toro Rosso) won't be the fastest (they are saying Monaco, which is at the end of May) and I think Ferrari, Renault and BMW may have one for Spain. McLaren? Who knows, maybe they'll be excluded, nobody knows what will happen to them on April 29th, but if they get their shit together, they can have one out for Spain too I think.

Force India? Dunno.

 

[Bludd]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/dennis-to-depart/
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74482
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6101379.ece

Jean Todt managed to leave on his own terms, but Ron Dennis seems to be pushed out by the Hamiltons and FIA and I don't know who. I'm not missing Jean Todt because of his total lack of understanding of sport. Steve Sunday is a much more likeable chap. I won't be missing Ron Dennis either, because he's just so supremely conservative, though he's more of a racer and a sportsman than Todt ever was, though watching Ron Dennis choking up and crying when his drivers won was pretty hilarious.

 

[chavvdarrr]

I'm haveb't been a Hamilton supporter from the beginning, and I think it's pretty obvious that the FIA is watching every one of his steps very carefully. The hate might be directed at McLaren, but that hasn't stopped them from punishing just about everything that Hamilton does.

pooor Hamilton!
He was so severely punished for this stupidity:
http://uk.truveo.com/Lewis-Hamilton-Crashes-Into-Kimi-Räikkönen/id/4030272128

And now FIA tries to "scapegoat" R. Dennis because his protege lied shamelessly. Twice.

 

[Phil]

I think the problem isn't Hamilton being punished unfairly, it's more him being punished for every wrong doing, while numerous other drivers have been ignored. There have been less post-race decisions before last year. This may not be directly related to Hamilton's skin colour, but it's definately some sort of manipulation to make the race for the championship closer than it probably would have been. If you [Kaotik & co.] are happy with this, fine. It's not something I'd like to see, however.