Formula 1 - 2009 Season

[catisfit]

During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake.

Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, ..., is this OK?
Team: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.
LH: He was off the track. He went wide.
Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
LH: OK.
LH: He's slowed right down in front of me.
Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.
LH: I let him past already.
Team: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

It doesn't get much more cut and dried than that. I don't see anything the stewards did wrong, apart from believe McLaren in the hearing after the race.

It's amazing that McLaren still maintain they did nothing wrong

There was no lie in that hearing. We, the team, made a mistake. We did not provide a full account of a radio conversation which we believe was being listened to in any case, and we don't believe was material to the decisions being made by the stewards.

 

[catisfit]

The FIA had video evidence of the entire relevant scene. If Hamilton had reduced his speed accoardingly and as later claimed by Trulli, then I'm sure this must of been seen on the video evidence as well.

I think you are misreading it:

From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared that Jarno Trulli’s car left the track and car No 1 moved into third place. It then appeared that Trulli overtook Hamilton to regain third place, which at the time was prohibited as it was during the Safety Car period.

The phrase "video recordings" only applies to the first sentence, not both.

 

[Phil]

It doesn't get much more cut and dried than that. I don't see anything the stewards did wrong, apart from believe McLaren in the hearing after the race.

It's amazing that McLaren still maintain they did nothing wrong

Fair enough. It does suprise me though that this was not seen on the video evidence in the first investigation which surely should have led tu further investigation and *never* in the punishment of Trulli in the first place.

I also find it a bit hard to believe that Hamilton lied or tried to hide anything after the race. After all, in one of the very first interviews right after the race, he openly admitted that the team wanted him to let Trulli passed.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7970539.stm

I think you are misreading it:

The phrase "video recordings" only applies to the first sentence, not both.

Perhaps, though given that the incident that was being punished was Trulli's overtaking Hamilton, I'd be a little surprised if that wasn't looked at either, actually very hard to believe.

I am also going by what McLaren boss said about having the telemetry data that shows that Hamilton did not change or alter is pace when Trulli passed him.

 

[catisfit]

I also find it a bit hard to believe that Hamilton lied or tried to hide anything after the race. After all, in one of the very first interviews right after the race, he openly admitted that the team wanted him to let Trulli passed.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7970539.stm

Well at some point between this interview and the meeting with the stewards, he changed his story. The FIA even cited this interview as part of the reason they reviewed the stewards decision. The only explanation can be that he returned to his team and was told "the party line" to give to the stewards.

As an aside, it's a shame that Lee McKenzie said she had heard the radio broadcasts in that interview, but the BBC didn't feel the need to share them with viewers at the time.

Good point about the telemetry. As McLaren's defence seems to be "technically we didn't lie" when they were, let's say, 'economical with the truth' to the stewards, it wouldn't surprise me if they are technically correct that Hamilton didn't alter his pace - he may have simply not accelerated out of a corner and maintained his slow pace along the straight.

It is difficult to take anything McLaren say on the matter at face value - when it's clear they were not open and honest to the stewards, why would they be with the press when they are trying to save face?

 

[chavvdarrr]

As above, according to Martin there was a discussion going on if there needed to be a pass at the time of the pass. So, while the team were requesting it Hamilton was saying no and the pass happened anyway.

See the red bolded text.
When asked Hamilton said that his team never gave him order to let Trulli overtake him.
I call that a lie, you?

 

[Zaphod]

Yeah. Anyone in doubt should just listen to the team radio clips (both Toyota's and McLaren's are posted).

Without knowing exactly what they said to the stewards the first time, It all seems quite clear.

-Hamilton could have gotten third.
-However, the team messed up so he ended fourth.
-They tried to lie about it to reclaim third.
-Got caught.

 

[Bludd]

I think it's fair. Trulli deserved the third place and McLaren got caught in a fib.

It's the same sort of fib Ferrari told when they thought they could get away with starting on inters in the 2007 Japanese GP.

 

[pocketmoon66]

I think it's fair. Trulli deserved the third place and McLaren got caught in a fib..

Are you saying Lewis was not entitles to pass Trulli when trulli drove off te track ?

If, as I understand it, the regs allow for this then the biggest mistake McLaren made was to even discuss the possibility of letting Trulli past.

[edit]

The BBC have the actual coms posted. Very cools. Sounds like Lewis was demanding a response from Charlie and McLaren were pursuing - trying to get an answer.

http://marketing.fiapress.com/sendstudio/link.php?&M=26466&N=936&L=402


"Ask Charlie 'cos I already over took him and already let him past..."

WTF was Charlie Whiting doing. He must have known what was going on.

 

[Bludd]

Are you saying Lewis was not entitles to pass Trulli when trulli drove off te track ?

No.

Here's the deal: Trulli drove off the track, Hamilton passed him, Hamilton let Trulli past again on orders from the team. Then Trulli was judged to have overtaken during the safety car even though it was McLaren who told Lewis to let him past. McLaren and Lewis did not tell the stewards that they had let Trulli past on purpose.

Thus if the Trulli penalty had stood, teams and drivers can now steal places under the safety car just by letting the car behind you pass. WHOOPS, HE PASSED UNDER A SAFETY CAR, BETTER GIVE HIM A PENALTY.

 

[Mariner]

So basically, the McLaren team (and Hamilton for that matter) fucked up again by not knowing the rules correctly which eventually has cost Hamilton a load of points after he'd driven a pretty good race.

Regardless of their shenanigans after the race, Hamilton would have taken 3rd place if the McLaren team had done their jobs properly in the first place. The rules may be convoluted but surely everyone is getting paid enough to learn them properly!?! Plonkers.

 

[Bludd]

Yep, I don't think anyone in the teams really knows the rules properly. Maybe the FIA should have some courses for drivers and pit wall decision makers.

 

[pocketmoon66]

Maybe the FIA should have some courses for drivers and pit wall decision makers.

Or maybe the FIA should have some sort of representative at the race ?

 

[infinity4]

FIA are clowns anyway.

Barrichello got away with that 'avoidable' incident and stewards do nothing away with it.

They almost screwed up Hamilton last season as well.

 

[Bludd]

FIA are clowns anyway.

Barrichello got away with that 'avoidable' incident and stewards do nothing away with it.

They almost screwed up Hamilton last season as well.

Kovalainen crashed into the back of Barrichello.

 

[V3]

No.

Here's the deal: Trulli drove off the track, Hamilton passed him, Hamilton let Trulli past again on orders from the team. Then Trulli was judged to have overtaken during the safety car even though it was McLaren who told Lewis to let him past. McLaren and Lewis did not tell the stewards that they had let Trulli past on purpose.

Why should McLaren or Lewis tell stewards they had let Trulli passed on purpose ? The stewards got accessed to their radio recording, telemetry and videos. If they examined all the information they could make the right ruling from the start. They are incompetent and this really showed. Not the spirit of the sport, yeah right. The stewards incompetence is what's not the spirit of the sport.

Thus if the Trulli penalty had stood, teams and drivers can now steal places under the safety car just by letting the car behind you pass. WHOOPS, HE PASSED UNDER A SAFETY CAR, BETTER GIVE HIM A PENALTY.

Yes but in this case the order was to correct the position. Teams have done this before.

Basically Trulli and Hamilton positions were the way it was when safety car started. Sure they had confusion in that period but their positions was correct at the end of safety car. That's that really.

 

[V3]

Kovalainen crashed into the back of Barrichello.

The other incident where Barrichello made contact with a Ferrari for a passed and that was somehow legal ?

 

[Bludd]

Why should McLaren or Lewis tell stewards they had let Trulli passed on purpose ? The stewards got accessed to their radio recording, telemetry and videos. If they examined all the information they could make the right ruling from the start. They are incompetent and this really showed. Not the spirit of the sport, yeah right. The stewards incompetence is what's not the spirit of the sport.



Yes but in this case the order was to correct the position. Teams have done this before.

Basically Trulli and Hamilton positions were the way it was when safety car started. Sure they had confusion in that period but their positions was correct at the end of safety car. That's that really.

The stewards made a mistake in the first decision when they trusted Hamilton's word without checking the data. If they hadn't reversed the penalty on Trulli and disqualified Hamilton, this would mean that you can force people to get penalties under the safety car just by letting them go by you again if they made a mistake where you had to overtake them.

The other incident where Barrichello made contact with a Ferrari for a passed and that was somehow legal ?

Yeah, I don't see why not. No car got destroyed, it wasn't really a collision, more like a tap and Barrichello's front wing lost even more bits and it was Barrichello who had to change his front wing in the pit stop, adding more time to his race.

 

[Kaotik]

Yeah, I don't see why not. No car got destroyed, it wasn't really a collision, more like a tap and Barrichello's front wing lost even more bits and it was Barrichello who had to change his front wing in the pit stop, adding more time to his race.

But it pushed Kimi off the driving lane, allowing Barrichello to overtake him

 

[Bludd]

But it pushed Kimi off the driving lane, allowing Barrichello to overtake him

Did it really? Kimi was on the super-softs and it was lap 9 or 10 or something. Barrichello probably just had more grip on the primes. There's no doubt Barrichello's front wing tapped Räikkönen, but I don't think the tap was the reason Barrichello got past. Rosberg had passed Räikkönen just before and you could see Kimi struggling under acceleration while Barrichello just closed right up on him.

 

[Kaotik]

So on to the next race then, Malaysia

First practice:

Kimi was on fire, quite literally, his car started smoking a lot - including inside the cabin itself, Kimi had to unstrap his seatbelts near the pits to get up and see where he was driving, and was in obvious hurry to get out of the car.
He also slipped one corner wide when he was being talked to on the radio, on then yelled back "don't talk me in the middle of the corner!"