First console to let me install all games to HDD will win me over

[pjbliverpool]

Most games you have to get the no CD patch thing, which are illegal. Unless you are talking about Steam and such.

It seems many games are doing away with that requirement these days (UT3 for example).

Still, I certainly have no issue installing a no-CD patch when I own the game and I don't think anyone should. It may be theoretically illegal but its not amoral and your extremely unlikely get into trouble over it. Even if someone could be bothered to take you to court over it they would probably lose.

 

[Skrying]

Well, that doesn't make it any less illegal. Last gen consoles has that kind of illegal method too for this HDD install games thing.

Doing them legit is what we want.

No, doing it the right way is what we want. You simply see this has being constrained inside todays laws which are simply down right silly in the technological age we live in. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a no-cd patch and this is clearly shown by many publishers simply allowing you to run the game without the disc in from the start. Simply fix this issue and we're good to go.

 

[kyleb]

Well, that doesn't make it any less illegal.

Where are you suggesting cracking a game you purchaced to run without a disk is illegal, and under what laws?

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

In my opinion no, sorry i think one of the advantages of the console over the pc is that you don't have to waste time or disc space to play them i've read on gamespot that you need from 20 to 30 min to install devil may cry on ps3 i don't think thats a good thing no way consoles should use hdd for cashe or whatever but not to install imagine the size of disc you would need to install 10 25 gb blu-ray discs on the ps3 even if it was only 10 gb of data.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Where are you suggesting cracking a game you purchaced to run without a disk is illegal, and under what laws?

Yes it's illegal under the law that it's unlawful to crack or remove copyright protection from copyrighted material. Different countries have different mileages on this of course, but the law is clear on this. Just as it's clear that it's illegal to rip DVDs you own to your media PC. And of course, at the same time as being illegal, it's also legal, due to the principle of Fair Use that copyright as per the Berne Convention is governed by. The powers that be are plain useless at managing the Law as an effective platform for justice and fairness...

 

[pjbliverpool]

In my opinion no, sorry i think one of the advantages of the console over the pc is that you don't have to waste time or disc space to play them i've read on gamespot that you need from 20 to 30 min to install devil may cry on ps3 i don't think thats a good thing no way consoles should use hdd for cashe or whatever but not to install imagine the size of disc you would need to install 10 25 gb blu-ray discs on the ps3 even if it was only 10 gb of data.

Its a compromise, but one that easily favours the install IMO.

For a one time only wait of no more than 30 mins (usually much less), you get shorter loading times and potential streaming advantages every time you run the game. Not to mention the advantage of being able to swap games without ever moving from the couch. That is one of the other console advantages isn't it? The comfort of gaming from the couch

But even the initial install time can be avoided via a system like that which Halo 2 uses. Its just a shame more games don't take advantage of it.

 

[acaeus]

Laws are written by men for men... We follow them, as we should, but we don't have to agree with them. Besides, some are just stupid (prob made by stupid men). Specially when they help corporations rather than the consumer (though those were made by very smart men).

Concerning the OP issue, I agree, and it is one of the things i love about MMOs. Click on the icon and play. They could certainly use a login/copy protection server on the net for that (using PKI).

 

[Skrying]

People must realize that this would need to be an option and not a forced switch. Meaning you would have the option to simply pop in the disk and go or the option to install the game to the systems hard drive and simply choose the game from a list (for example) and go. To me installing would most certainly be the way to go for a game you might play often, a multiplayer one for instance. But let's say its a single player game mainly for you and you want to beat the campaign and you might not play it for some time, well just popping in the disc would work just fine for that. You don't have to have one or the other, you can have both and rather easily as well. A simple software patch would make this possible already on todays consoles, hard drive space of course limiting it because the hard drives in todays consoles are ridiculously small in space.

 

[fallguy]

Well since MS limits you to a 120gig drive, thats very overpriced, your 11 games wouldnt leave much room at all.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Well since MS limits you to a 120gig drive, thats very overpriced, your 11 games wouldnt leave much room at all.

Well it would still leave almost 40GB and that's assuming that all the games are the maximum 7.4GB...
11 games simultaneously is quite many also, I for one never play that many full retail games in a short or medium timeframe so in my opinion the 120GB is more than well suited for the task, I quess I failed to see your point.

 

[PARANOiA]

Isn't this just asking for piracy? How could they control video store rentals or simply "sharing" a game with a bunch of friends?

An online requirement is one thing, however this irks a lot of people at the moment - looks at the "I can't play my XBLA games!" complaints. Having an online registration is another method a la Itunes, so you can tie the install to one console. Whenever you want to put the install onto another machine it must first sever the first tie... but then Bioshock tried this and was largely crucified for it. Go search the PC gaming Bioshock thread for some gamer's thoughts on this concept.

Not sure what the right solution is, however I can't imagine the tiny group of people demanding such a feature would make the piracy floodgate it opens worthwhile to any of the console manufacturers.

 

[Skrying]

An online requirement is fine. People throwing fits about such things are really so ridiculous that once you're the first "Oh this is horrible!" stag its really smooth sailing. Bioshock is a great example of how it was done poorly (a poor way is a poor way, it should be crucified), but a Steam like system that does the check would go over just fine. Really I think Steam is a great example on how you can do such things, when Steam works (which is the vast majority of time, btw) it is really the best gaming experience to be had.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

An online requirement is fine. Really I think Steam is a great example on how you can do such things, when Steam works (which is the vast majority of time, btw) it is really the best gaming experience to be had.

Really? My only experience with 'Steam' has been through KUMA games, which means I never paid for a thing. Perhaps it's for that reason, but I was hardly impressed. The download and install times were fine (and if we're talking about loading off optical media then download times aren't an issue), but the constant checking, the necessary online component, the system always running even when I didn't want it to, etc.. were really consumer unfriendly to me.

Sure, it'd be nice for the consumer (and the Pirate) to be able to go back to the good ole' days of PC gaming and just install a game once and never have to worry about the optical media again. You just store it away some place in case you decide to uninstall the game and want to reinstall it again in the future.

But I have to think that this is a situation that currently works against developers and publishers because of copying/gifting ability, and also works against MS because they want you to use your HDD space on more important things like Microtransactions and HD movie downloads.

So there's two issues, one is a software issue that needs to be overcome.. how to allow full HDD installs while preventing theft/gifting of the optical media once the install is made, and the second is the hardware issue of price/size ratio of available HDD tech.

Also, last I checked, it was a rather large majority of next gen consoles that weren't online, or 'actively' online. I would expect that number to decline slightly (more consoles go on line) and then increase dramatically as the prices fall towards the 'mainstream' consumer.

Is it possible to implement full HDD installation for only those people who are constantly/frequently online?

How would that work? I'd buy a game, I'd install it fully and register it, but then give it to my friend who wouldn't install it and would never be online. So two people could play off of a single purchase.

Because there's no way to write to the optical disc, it wouldn't know it had already been 'fully installed' once, and because you simply can't require an online presence and expect to sell your game to any credibly-sized install base, I don't really see a way to conquer this issue.

 

[kyleb]

Yes it's illegal under the law that it's unlawful to crack or remove copyright protection from copyrighted material. Different countries have different mileages on this of course, but the law is clear on this.

Hum, I haven't seen any law here in the States outlawing such acts.

 

[Skrying]

Steam has an offline mode, it also does not have to run all the time (you can turn it off easily, and also set it not to come on when Windows loads up), it also never checks anything (not sure what you mean by that) except for updates and even that can be set to off I do believe. But just a question, how often is your gaming computer offline? I'm going to say that it is very very rare occurrence.

Also, current protection systems are really pointless. The download of the game almost always includes the tools or readme that tells you how to get around it. So I doubt that allowing this fully would make any real difference at all.

A lot of the consoles not online is because its hard to get one online (Microsoft charging a STUPID $100 for a wireless adapter, and people not realizing a number of much cheaper adapters work just as well), or they simply don't want to play online multiplayer games. If you simply said "You simply need to connect to your network, the wireless functionality is already there, simply follow the wizard" it would go over pretty easily providing your wireless support is quality (which in this case it would be).

In a perfect world you could simply "unregister" the game from yourself and then the next person could register it in their name. Real simple.

People seem to have a hard time seeing these things simply because not all the tools are there already. Just takes a bit of imagination and a system that is simple and usable can be easily found.

 

[fallguy]

Well it would still leave almost 40GB and that's assuming that all the games are the maximum 7.4GB...
11 games simultaneously is quite many also, I for one never play that many full retail games in a short or medium timeframe so in my opinion the 120GB is more than well suited for the task, I quess I failed to see your point.

A lot of games, are compressed on the disc. Making the install bigger. Also, there are demos to be downloaded, music to have on the HD, photos, etc. And thats assuming that you have the 120gig HD. Im kinda a pack rat... I keep demos forever. Downloaded trailers, etc forever too.

Hey, Im all for it. I use steam every chance I get, for this reason. I detest changing discs out, even though its not that big of a deal really. I just dont see it happening any time soon at all for the consoles. Even though a few games are already sold that way, Warhawk for instance. But then you cant resell it, I dont think?

 

[Skrying]

Install not the right word, just simply put an image of the disc on the hard drive. No real reason you must uncompress it that I know of.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

A lot of the consoles not online is because its hard to get one online

I disagree. I think the majority of consoles will not be online this generation because the majority of owners will not have broadband access.

Even with the current situation that is made up mostly of 'early adopters' who do have broadband access, they don't have their consoles online. As the price point hits 'mainstream', a smaller % of consoles will be online, regardless of the ease in doing so.

In a perfect world you could simply "unregister" the game from yourself and then the next person could register it in their name. Real simple.

Sorry, either not simple or I don't understand.

As I said, I have internet and I buy the game. I install the game fully to my HDD. I register the game online with the registration code that comes with the game.

How does the GAME DISC know when I give it to somebody else who doesn't have internet and isn't online that it shouldn't allow itself to be played?

Isn't that the main problem that needs to be overcome?

 

[3dcgi]

I would love to be able to install to the hard drive. Around the time of the 360 launch I was talking to some Microsoft developers and I suggested this. My suggestion for copy protection was to require a connection to xbox live though maybe there's another solution.

The hard drive vendor should push Microsoft and Sony for this. They'd sell more big hard drives.

I didn't get the feeling this was a feature Microsoft was considering at the time and I have no idea if they've considered it since, but hopefully threads like this will help console makers determine if there is enough demand to make development of this feature worthwhile.

I used HD loader for my PS2 and it worked great with most of my games.

 

[Skrying]

I disagree. I think the majority of consoles will not be online this generation because the majority of owners will not have broadband access.

Even with the current situation that is made up mostly of 'early adopters' who do have broadband access, they don't have their consoles online. As the price point hits 'mainstream', a smaller % of consoles will be online, regardless of the ease in doing so.

So phone in, one time thing, not to hard. I find it hard to think that many people don't have access to broadband at this point. In the US (I've always thought we were on the worse part of the scale, forgive me for not having any real first hand knowledge of other countries) even those decently out of towns have access to broadband for the most part, not all mind you but most. I live a bit out of town and have broadband for instance and out of all my family and friends I only know one person who does not have broadband internet due to location. Price is a bad reason not have to have broadband in my opinion (again, more my experience) as DSl service is really super cheap, at least in my location. I personally use a $20 a month 1.5/384 connection. But even against all this, a simple one time phone call would work just fine.

Sorry, either not simple or I don't understand.

As I said, I have internet and I buy the game. I install the game fully to my HDD. I register the game online with the registration code that comes with the game.

How does the GAME DISC know when I give it to somebody else who doesn't have internet and isn't online that it shouldn't allow itself to be played?

Isn't that the main problem that needs to be overcome?

How does the game disc know you installed the game? It doesn't. That data is stored on the companies server. Send the request via internet or by phone, it'll have the same outcome. The disc is totally unknowing of the entire process.