Feasibility of an upgradeable or forwards compatible console *spawn*

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by RudeCurve, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    It's a tough thing to market. It was back then and it will be going forward. It wasn't so much a knock on whether console gamers are more tech savvy or what not. It's just that each generation is more tech savvy than the last and expandable consoles has always been a tougher proposition. You've upgraded the GPU, that's great but that just shifts bottlenecks. It's hard to market something like that because not all games can take advantage of it or would.

    High visual complexity is a factor of both CPU and GPU. Can't just keep upping the GPU and think that both FPS and visual fidelity will automatically improve (to the value of what one will pay for the external add on). But how does ones explain that ?
     
  2. tuna

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    How will this affect memory latency and segmentation? Will not the plugged in GPU have to have its own memory?
     
  3. Davros

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    If it works the same as it does on pc then yes
    a few years down the line you would want the cpu to have the full 8gb (or whatever they are allowed to use) that the consoles have
     
  4. gongo

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    To temper expectations a little.... current eGPU works by disabling the onboard GPU when plugged in...i don't think there is one where you can use both at the same time..and then there is the extra power brick required to power the eGPU.

    Now if we are talking about fixed platform consoles, if Sony wanted to explore this area, i feel they can get away with the eGPU, as a MXM + HBM add-on housed in a compact enclosure, works as a CFX system under the OS (ala DX12), and plugged in using 2 connector ports, that will provide enough power and transfer bandwidth and do away with another power brick!!

    That is the dream and interesting idea for next gen.
     
  5. ToTTenTranz

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    With Optimus on my Ivybridge+GK107 laptop, I am able to use both GPUs at the same time. I can load up Intel XTU's GPU stress test and load Furmark for the nVidia GPU.

    I'm pretty sure that DX12 with explicit multiadapter will make use of Haswell iGPUs and later plus discrete graphics on laptops.
     
  6. Davros

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    but can you use 2 gpu's on a single game?
     
  7. ToTTenTranz

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    I could if there was a game that used OpenCL and the device for it was selectable, for example.
    All I'm saying is that both the hardware and the software support it at the moment.
     
  8. fehu

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    How many Nintendo 64's games used the rumble or the memory expansion?
     
  9. Davros

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    so you mean you could use a 2nd gpu for a dedicated task like physx but not share all the workload like sli ?
     
  10. ToTTenTranz

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    I'm saying the current hardware and software ecossystem has allowed that for quite some time, yes.
    Either it would be feasible and/or efficient from a developer/publisher's point of view it's another story.

    For example, I have successfully used the HD4000 as main graphics renderer and the GTX 650M as a dedicated GPU for PhysX. Obviously the end result was worse than using the 650M for everything because the HD4000 is really weak, but had there been a physics engine based on OpenCL 1.2 I'm sure the HD4000 could've been used for that.
     
  11. Globalisateur

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    Tons of games used the rumble pack, most games I played on N64 used it. Only a few used the memory expansion which was mandatory in fewer games (2 or 3?). Others allowed better resolution like Turok 2 and Star Wars pod racer game (both awesome games). But the fps was then worse I seem to recall (still I preferred the higher res though, much better immersion).

    While the rumble pack was a great idea (optional accessory that you could turn off and probably easy to implement for devs).

    I think the memory expansion was a mistake.
     
  12. function

    function None functional
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    Memory expansion on the Saturn was boss. Unlike the N64, it wasn't used to boost resolution though, only increase quality of assets so it didn't impact on frame rate.

    N64 expansion pack might have been better used to increase texture quality and diversity, and model complexity, instead of trying to boost resolution without increasing system performance.
     
  13. Rodéric

    Rodéric a.k.a. Ingenu
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    The problem with expansions is that it fragments the market, that's not something you're too interested in as a dev, because you want to target the whole market, not a subset, unless it's a massive subset (90%+).
     
  14. AlBran

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  15. novcze

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    Why two years down the road? Release two SKUs from the start and make it dev friendly, just make one requirement and that's double fps for 2xGPU version and leave other possible features for developers who want to take advantage of 2xGPU.
     
  16. eastmen

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    2 years would hopefully give you a micron drop but at the very least a new design on a gpu. Just look at the jump nivida made on the same micron.
     
  17. novcze

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    I don't think that some sort of expansion would sell well. I'm in the same boat as gongo, Sony should be more ambitious and release PS5 in more than one hardware configuration.

    media PS5 = 1xAPU + blu-ray + hdd
    DD only PS5 = 1xAPU + hdd
    DD only PS5 hardcore edition = 2xAPU + hdd
     
  18. eastmen

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    Well 1) I don't think your set up would work. If your going to release one config with optical your going to have to do both as there will be optical fans that will go ape if they can't get the set up they want. So you either have to go whole hog or none of it.

    Also I would wager that they would use some type of thunderbolt or external pci-e type set up for the second APU .

    Release the base system with expansion capability , then two years or three years later release the upgrade that's just a GPU and ram or heck you can even do an APU.

    I think you could see some big gains for software that can take advantage of it.

    If you launch the apu up front your going to be limited by whats avalible at that time.
     
  19. novcze

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    My list was just illustration of an idea, maybe best add-on would be blu-ray drive for those who need it or maybe they can go fully modular with the PS5 ... but I don't think this will happen, because it's just more problems for Sony.

    Anyhow, I wouldn't buy expansion two or three years later with uncertain support from developers.
     
  20. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    Why would they even want to split their market with a supposed 1xAPU machine and one with 2? As if the removal of the Bluray drive would actually do much to offset an extra APU.

    I can see two machines, one with the drive and one without, but the computational power will be the same. It's a console.
     
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