Fall software lineup seems weak

[cthellis42]

Hrm, lemme take a gander and see what sticks out to my eye: (Just looking at sept/oct releases here, too. beginning of "fall" stuff)

For the PS2...

Starsky & Hutch actually intrigues, but I'm not holding out for a hero here
Hunter: TRW (Hey, I liked the first as a $10 purchase. )
.Hack / Outbreak
W40K: Fire Warrior
Dynasty Tactics 2
XIII
Mega Man X7
Jak II
SSX 3
Time Crisis 3
Castlevania: LoI
Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel

For Gamecube...

P.N.03
Viewtiful Joe
Auto Modellista
XIII
Kirby Air Ride
SSX III
Pikmin 2

For Xbox...

Starsky & Hutch
Dino Crisis 3
D&D Heroes
Crimson Skies: HRtR
SSX 3
Sudeki
Fallout: BoS
Kill.switch
Amped


...and this is ignoring pretty much all sports titles and most remakes of popular games and ports, and was just a quick buzzing over to write stuff down that I've heard interesting things about.

"What shall live and what shall die?" Who knows, who cares? But it's always always easy to find good games out there if one is a little less critical of the selection...

 

[Phil]

I now have Wipeout and Wipeout 2097 for Saturn.

The first one is EXTREMELY BORING and the second is still decidedly un-fun but a terrific improvement over the first.

F-Zero X is one of the two fastest racing games I've ever played, right alongside Star Wars: Episode 1: Racer (which I also have for N64). The speed values are about comparable, cruising speed is 500-600km/h in both, but in FZX you can boost way past that much more easily.

The difference with FZX is it's by far the smoothest game I've ever played. It seems to play smoother than any "60fps" GameCube, PS2, or Xbox game I've played thus far... and I've pretty much narrowed it down to motion blur (the game uses a very faint motion blur, you can't actually SEE it working most of the time, only in a select few instances can it be reliably pointed out)... anyway, I digress.

The other difference with FZX, as fox5 pointed out, is 'barren track' syndrome. FZX had 30 vehicles per race... only if you're out front or way behind will you not be pestered by at least 2-3 opponents... and races VERY rarely last more than 2 minutes, with the average race being a minute and a half. It's all really insanely quick. fox5 also pointed out the speed only really comes into play when you're about to mess up a turn - that's when speed is SUPPOSED to come into play. Turns are a landmark to compare yourself to, on a straightaway you don't really have that. But put it this way - the track textures... well, on the edges, there are often lines of dots, and when you're moving at a good clip, they either A. look like they aren't moving at all, or B. look like they're slowly moving FORWARDS. =)

Tag, I wasn't arguing that WipEout is a better game. How could I, as it's merely based on preference and both are really two different games that in my opinion can't be compared that well. While they do have a few things in common, like speed and their futuristic aspects, the games in itself are quite different as both have a slightly different racing objective. While I understand that F-Zero is more like the normal racing game, WipEout is more as it's not only winning the race that is an objective, but also getting through it in the first place (hence surviving the race). You brought up that the game is the "fastest ever" and I am not quite sure that holds true, as WipEout Fusion can reach a point where speed is so fast, that it's literally unplayable (-> ZoneMode). Of course that wouldn't tell you much, as you have not played the game and it takes a lot of skill to get there in the first place. You also talk about "reduced" speed - I think that in itself is evidence enough that you have not played a recent WipEout game and if you have, not above the beginner levels which are slow (as I already said, speed increases proportionally to the level you're in). I trust you have played WipEout 2097, but can't comment on the Saturn version but as in every WipEout game, the speed increases to the level aswell. As said though, where speed is concern, Fusion puts even 2097 to shame and can get to a level where unplayable because of it being so damn fast. If you have any videos of F-Zero X highlighting its speed, I'll be very interested to see it.

 

[a4164]

FF:CC

Cept its not a 2003 title in NA/EU.

you could try the following (sums up my feelings on this regard)

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-07-25&res=l

gamefront.de just reported that FF:CC has already sold 193,569 units (Media Create reports 194,100). And on a more optimistic note from PA:

 

[Fox5]

http://www.valiant-ent.tv/

Uh, what was the point of posting that? I didn't sign up, but I'd say there is a good chance it is one of those dungeon and dragon games...KEEP IT AWAY!

Phil- Well, I know in the old wipeouts I played and wipeout 64, even on the hardest levels the speed did not become unplayable. Anyhow, F Zero X is also about surviving a race, later on it gets dang hard to keep from falling off or getting rammed to death, and even half the computer players could die by the end of a race.(and while purposely trying to kill them, I've narrowed the race down to like 5, and I'm aware you can finish a wipeout race without any computers left, but wipeout has a lot less computers racing)

 

[Johnny Awesome]

None of the titles on these lists are really hardware movers though. However, maybe something will suprise me.

 

[marconelly!]

Uh, what was the point of posting that? I didn't sign up, but I'd say there is a good chance it is one of those dungeon and dragon games...KEEP IT AWAY!

That's a website for Rockstar's Manhunt.

Humm, I saw a number of Contra ads on TV - something I can't say for about 90%+ of games on the market.

Really? I haven't seen any. In any case, except for Shinobi (sold pretty good I think) and Rygar I can't think of another PS2 revamped classics at all, much less one that bombed.

 

[chaphack]

I dunno, Xbox has KOTOR now, and then there will be OTOGI..god knows when DOA Online and Ninja Gaiden be coming...cant think of any more cool games. PS2 has FFX2 and hopefully GT4...not muchie...

I think PC might be hot this season. HL2, a good number of crazy PCRPGs...hmmm i must be lagging in terms of knowing new game release...i blame my focus of the grapHiXX.

 

[Paul]

blame my focus of the grapHiXX.

Lmao.. You really do love graphics don't you.

In that case, go check out the 500mb Half life 2 movie, you'll shit your pants.

 

[Tagrineth]

Phil- Well, I know in the old wipeouts I played and wipeout 64, even on the hardest levels the speed did not become unplayable. Anyhow, F Zero X is also about surviving a race, later on it gets dang hard to keep from falling off or getting rammed to death, and even half the computer players could die by the end of a race.(and while purposely trying to kill them, I've narrowed the race down to like 5, and I'm aware you can finish a wipeout race without any computers left, but wipeout has a lot less computers racing)

Yeah, it's SO fun playing aggressively!

To attack in F-Zero X you have to RAM your opponents, making it pretty risky most of the time.

And in Master, there's virtually no hope of "winning" races for the most part unless you are God.

You're expected to win the circuit by killing off your closest competition so they don't get points.

 

[Fox5]

That battle race was a blast too, but unfortunately there was only 1 track and it was single player....

 

[Nick Laslett]

...

 

[Tagrineth]

Oh, another thing about F-Zero X's unique coolness:

Starting on lap 2, you can boost just about whenever you want to... BUT, boosting takes away from your unified energy - which also counts for your shield/structural integrity. So it's a great little balancing act between boosting like mad and surviving the race. ^_^


Added:

OK, I just spent a ton of time playing Wipeout 2097, finished the beginner and intermediate races, and one Hard race.

Rather good looking game, even on the "Crippled 3D" Saturn.

The weapons are rather awkward... but once I got used to them, they made some things too easy (like the "Q" Rolling quake, and the Autopilot).

The steering is really retarded in Wipeout. It's too freaking DRIFTY. It almost puts RIDGE SLIDER to shame. :\ Even when I started to get used to the freaky drifting it was still awkward. F-Zero X's steering is instantaneous.

The speed does ramp up with difficulty. It's a VERY cheap way to make the 'Hard' races even harder, especially with the zero-grip steering. Then also the insanely stupid arcade-style checkpoint time limits. Basically a big pile of useless, artificial difficulty. I have the same problem with 'Classic' F-Zero on SNES and GBA - all those worthless racers littering the track that don't count for position unless you're so far behind you've already lost. Yes, Wipeout 2097 is faster than F-Zero X on the highest difficulty, but it's too artificial. F-Zero X has the same "speed setting" through all difficulties, except for the AI's =)

On another note, I don't very much care for Wipeout's track designs. They're pleasing to the eye but very annoying for actual racing, for the most part... especially with the pathetic drifting. The second Hard race, for example, has one hairpin turn near the end which is IMPOSSIBLE to take without hitting the back wall.

One of F-Zero X's honestly most endearing traits is its mind-bending track design... I honestly can't think of a single track (outside of the X Cup, which I'll cover in a moment) which isn't an excellent race... including the super unfair Half Pipe design.

FZX also has a cup which is made up entirely of semi-randomly generated tracks ^_^ Every once in a while it'll make an AI murderer (one I did recently had a 90 degree turn with a sharp peak in the middle. Halfway through the first lap, I was down to two opponents), but otherwise it's neat.

Edit 2: Another thing. Wipeout 2097's music sucks. F-Zero X's is the greatest music ever to grace a racing game. 8)

 

[Goldni]

As a PS2 owner, I'm not familiar with the GC and Xbox titles due in the next few months. Maybe something significant will come along and persuade me to invest in another system. I had a Saturn, PSOne and N64 during the previous generation, but even Zelda has failed to make me buy a GC this time.

Well Zelda may not be for everyone but good gosh man you mean you've never played Metroid Prime? You have my deepest sympathies. Truly some of the most fun I've had (by myself). I'd play till 2:00 in the morning many of times. I've never had "game time" pass by like that..you know when you are enjoying a game so much and 5 hours seems like it went by in 30 minutes.

 

[marconelly!]

Edit 2: Another thing. Wipeout 2097's music sucks. F-Zero X's is the greatest music ever to grace a racing game.

* Makes a mental note to never ask you for a music suggestion *

I know they say opinions can't be wrong, but saying that Wipeout 2097's soundtracks sucks, is basically pissing on some of the best bands and some of the best work one music genre has ever seen. It's literally like saying that Mozart and Bethoven 'suck' just because you don't like classical music, IMO.

 

[ChryZ]

Edit 2: Another thing. Wipeout 2097's music sucks. F-Zero X's is the greatest music ever to grace a racing game. 8)

Psygnosis had excelled themselves and licenced some of the finest techno/dnb/electro artists (FSOL, CHEM. BROS., PHOTEK, UNDERWORLD, FLUKE, THE PRODIGY, COLD STORAGE). Licensing tracks usually eats a good part of your profits, so even more respect to them. If someone dislike this style of music, fine ... but to claim, that the music "sucks" is ignorant.

Hell, comparing F-Zero to WipeOut is so pointless. Both games are brilliant in their own way ... I loved every title of the WipeOut series and my F-Zero GX is pending on pre-order.

 

[Tagrineth]

I know they say opinions can't be wrong, but saying that Wipeout 2097's soundtracks sucks, is basically pissing on some of the best bands and some of the best work one music genre has ever seen. It's literally like saying that Mozart and Bethoven 'suck' just because you don't like classical music, IMO.

I usually like Techno, but Wipeout 2097's music is just really, really bland. It could also be the pitifully skewed volume settings (it's REALLY QUIET in races) affecting my judgement though.

One last side point after spending a little more time with *playing* 2097 earlier... I noticed it's impossible to "leave the track" (in the sense of flying off into the void)... and in some cases where I can slide up along the shoulder of a turn, if I pull too far off, the camera freaks out but I can still get back onto the track.

F-Zero X has no such 'force field' stopping you from dying a brutal death because a bump caused your vehicle to leave the track. 8)

 

[Fox5]

Hey what kind of music does F Zero GX have? From the movies I've seen, it appears to be rather weak techno.

I'd prefer it if sega had gone with the rock inspired theme of fzero x, but I didn't notice the music much in fzero x multiplayer....did it have music playing in multiplayer? However, I did notice the lack of music in F Zero Maximum Velocity on the Mute City single pak link race. Maximum Velocity also had some cooler courses, they lacked the insane '3d stuff'(loops, tubes) of fzero x, but had better jumps and track obstacles. Unless you count the wreckage of dead cars(which has caused me to lose races), fzero x rarely had obstacles. Maybe some minor use of mines on 1 track, dirt on 1 or 2, and ice on at least 2, yet there where like 20-30 tracks in the game.(I think closer to 30)

 

[Phil]

I usually like Techno, but Wipeout 2097's music is just really, really bland. It could also be the pitifully skewed volume settings (it's REALLY QUIET in races) affecting my judgement though.

One last side point after spending a little more time with *playing* 2097 earlier... I noticed it's impossible to "leave the track" (in the sense of flying off into the void)... and in some cases where I can slide up along the shoulder of a turn, if I pull too far off, the camera freaks out but I can still get back onto the track.

F-Zero X has no such 'force field' stopping you from dying a brutal death because a bump caused your vehicle to leave the track.

I suggest you go back and play a bit more of 2097 - I recall many tracks where it's quite possible to "leave the track" (one night track comes to mind). I wish I could go back and play 2097, but the copy I owned was lost by a friend I borrowed it to. On a side note, Fusion uses some other physics engine which will have you flying off the track pretty easily.

On another note, I don't very much care for Wipeout's track designs. They're pleasing to the eye but very annoying for actual racing, for the most part... especially with the pathetic drifting. The second Hard race, for example, has one hairpin turn near the end which is IMPOSSIBLE to take without hitting the back wall.

WipEout has always been a game that requires a lot of skill. There's not one single turn that is IMPOSSIBLE to take without hitting the wall - you might have missed the fact that you have two air brakes that are ESSENTIAL to getting through the game at high speeds - basically, using the air brakes correctly will turn the ship similar to how a speed boat reacts in water when you take a hard turn.

The speed does ramp up with difficulty. It's a VERY cheap way to make the 'Hard' races even harder, especially with the zero-grip steering. Then also the insanely stupid arcade-style checkpoint time limits. Basically a big pile of useless, artificial difficulty. I have the same problem with 'Classic' F-Zero on SNES and GBA - all those worthless racers littering the track that don't count for position unless you're so far behind you've already lost. Yes, Wipeout 2097 is faster than F-Zero X on the highest difficulty, but it's too artificial. F-Zero X has the same "speed setting" through all difficulties, except for the AI's =)

I'm happy to inform you that Fusion on PS2 is a MAGNITUDE FASTER than 2097 and that at steady 60 fps most of the time. Play ZoneMode and the ship will go faster and faster every 10 seconds. Air brakes is a must, but you can't use them to slow down the ship - also, pit stops are disabled, so you can't repair your ship. Basically, the goal is to get through as long as possible. Once you reach ZoneMode level 50 or more, the games is so fast, it's practically unplayable unless you know the tracks by heart. Probably the fastest experience yet to grace a video game.

As for checkpoints - you may not like it, but like the weapons and very agressive AI - it's what makes WipEout the challenging game it is. If you dislike it that much, I won't recommend Fusion, as the game targets pretty much the hardcore WipEout fans with its incredible challenging and difficult gameplay. Even many WipEout fans dislike it, due to the difficulty level, which to some point is understandable.

Psygnosis had excelled themselves and licenced some of the finest techno/dnb/electro artists (FSOL, CHEM. BROS., PHOTEK, UNDERWORLD, FLUKE, THE PRODIGY, COLD STORAGE). Licensing tracks usually eats a good part of your profits, so even more respect to them. If someone dislike this style of music, fine ... but to claim, that the music "sucks" is ignorant.

Hell, comparing F-Zero to WipeOut is so pointless. Both games are brilliant in their own way ... I loved every title of the WipeOut series and my F-Zero GX is pending on pre-order.

*nods in agreement*

Most memorable track from 2097 for me is definately Firestarter by Prodigy. Fusion has some excellent electronica aswell, mainly thinking of the tracks by Amethyst, Fluke and of course FSOL.

BTW; have you been playing ZoneMode? I was once ranked among the top 50 world wide first track unter 'Phil', but that was a while ago and I wouldn't be suprised if I'm not on the scoreboard anymore. Still haven't gotten past all the levels though... I should really get back and practise a bit again - it's been a while since I've played it last.