Nintendo Abandoned the Core? The Myth Exposed

[fearsomepirate]

Out of sheer curiosity, I decided to see how true this claim was that Nintendo has abandoned its core fans, which for Nintendo means fans of its core franchises (as opposed to self-identified "hardcore" gamers obsessed with first-person shooters and racing sims, to whom Nintendo has never catered). Every time Nintendo announces an expanded audience title, there is a great outcry from the gaming press and fans that Nintendo has abandoned them, implying that the core software support was much better on the Gamecube. I bought into this narrative myself. I decided to compare first two years' worth of Nintendo-published titles on the two consoles and found the opposite of what I expected--Nintendo's "core" support is actually much better on the Wii.

So here you go, the first two years in no particular order:
Gamecube:
Luigi's Mansion
Wind Waker
Mario Sunshine
Metroid Prime
Animal Crossing
Pikmin
SSBM
Eternal Darkness
Star Fox Adventures
Wave Race: Blue Storm
Mario Party 4
Disney's Magical Mirror
NBA Courtside 2002

On Wii
Super Paper Mario
Twilight Princess
Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime 3
Mario Kart Wii
SSBB
Wii Sports
Wii Play
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Mario Party 8
Mario Strikers Charged
Link's Crossbow Training
Warioware: Smooth Moves
Excite Truck
Pokemon Battle Revolution
Battalion Wars 2
Endless Ocean
DK Barrel Blast
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Mario Super Sluggers

I put the "core" titles in bold, where "core" is loosely defined as "the sort of games Nintendo fans have been buying from Nintendo years now." Mario Party is either a core title (because it's on its 8th iteration, and each one sells platinum), or the original expanded audience game, take your pick. Either way, GC and Wii got one in their first two years, so it doesn't matter. Animal Crossing has always been a non-traditional/expanded audience game IMO. DK Barrel Blast, Luigi's Mansion, and Link's Crossbow Training were left off as sort of shallow, throw-away titles. Some people might argue the two cross-platform games shouldn't count, but since they (a) are nonetheless available for purchase on the Wii and (b) core franchise titles, they count.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, Nintendo has actually done a better job of supporting its core fans on Wii than on Gamecube. I count 10 core titles on the Cube and 13 on the Wii. The only thing you can really say is that Nintendo didn't deliver the graphical upgrade we've become used to. But on the software front, there is simply no credible reason to say Nintendo has "abandoned" its core.

 

[RudeCurve]

Most of Nintendo's Wii games are made for kids and younger adults...that's what is relevent not whether or not they're games made for "hardcore" players. At the end of the day Wii's library is mostly shovelware and not for mature players. I'll own a PS3/X360 before I own a Wii. People need to stop defending the Wii, it does what it's supposed to which is make lots of money but it isn't a great console for mature themed games with high fidelity graphics. That's just reality. Look at all the big name franchises from 3rd party developers, they're developed for PS3/X360 not Wii. Wii gets leftovers that no mature gamer really cares about. You won't see RE5 or Assasin's Creed or DMC4 or MGS4 yadda yadda yadda on Wii. Let's move on shall we?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The only thing you can really say is that Nintendo didn't deliver the graphical upgrade we've become used to.

Sadly that is the only thing needed to make it a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned. It's games like Wii Sport/Fit and some such, where the graphics don't really matter, but it's very hard for me to even begin to be impressed of games like the Conduit, which looks imo like crap. The fact is that I'm starting to feel like X360 and PS3 graphics are already starting to look a little outdated, which makes the Wii look like ancient history.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Out of sheer curiosity, I decided to see how true this claim was that Nintendo has abandoned its core fans, which for Nintendo means fans of its core franchises (as opposed to self-identified "hardcore" gamers obsessed with first-person shooters and racing sims, to whom Nintendo has never catered). Every time Nintendo announces an expanded audience title, there is a great outcry from the gaming press and fans that Nintendo has abandoned them, implying that the core software support was much better on the Gamecube. I bought into this narrative myself. I decided to compare first two years' worth of Nintendo-published titles on the two consoles and found the opposite of what I expected--Nintendo's "core" support is actually much better on the Wii.

So here you go, the first two years in no particular order:
Gamecube:
Luigi's Mansion
Wind Waker
Mario Sunshine
Metroid Prime
Animal Crossing
Pikmin
SSBM
Eternal Darkness
Star Fox Adventures
Wave Race: Blue Storm
Mario Party 4
Disney's Magical Mirror
NBA Courtside 2002

On Wii
Super Paper Mario Liften from GC
Twilight Princess GC port
Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime 3
Mario Kart Wii pathetic attempt at mariokart, only fun for complete idiots, not a core game anymore
SSBB
Wii Sports
Wii Play
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn lifted from GC
Mario Party 8 Since when is marioparty a core game? besides that it also is a quick cash in as its not a very good game and has lots of things left out (like 16:9)
Mario Strikers Charged Shabby game not to mention its not even that ''harcore''
Link's Crossbow Training
Warioware: Smooth Moves
Excite Truck
Pokemon Battle Revolution This is core?
Battalion Wars 2
Endless Ocean
DK Barrel Blast
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Mario Super Sluggers

I dont think they've done a better job. Most of the core games they did release are screwed up. SMG is great, but way to easy, no challange at all. Mariokart is worthless as its totally unbalanced and sucking actually means you got more chance of winning than when you are actually good and drive upfront.

You only have SMG, mariokart, MP3 and SSBB as the real core games nintendo made for wii alone and didnt just rip away from GC.

 

[obonicus]

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, Nintendo has actually done a better job of supporting its core fans on Wii than on Gamecube. I count 10 core titles on the Cube and 13 on the Wii. The only thing you can really say is that Nintendo didn't deliver the graphical upgrade we've become used to. But on the software front, there is simply no credible reason to say Nintendo has "abandoned" its core.

Just an FYI, you've left Wario Land: Shake It off your list of Wii games.

The flaw with this reasoning is that you presume that their support was good in the GC days. It's not; even if it's marginally better (is it? tongue_of_colicab does bring up a good point in that a good deal of the 'core' games also came out on GC) that doesn't make it good. Hell, in the GC days Nintendo actually created a new IP (Pikmin).

For the Wii, the main new IP is the 'Wii' series, if you can even call it that. Nintendo seems to think that all the enthusiasts want is 'Mario and Zelda'; that's just part of it. MS has been able to continue developing its main IP (Halo) while getting new IP (Gears (though they don't own it), Viva Pinata) and reviving old IP in their portfolio (Banjo Kazooie) while also dabbling in games with more general appeal (Lips, You're in the Movies). Sony is a similar story. Both haven't been entirely successful, but that's not the point: the point is that from the 'core' perspective, if you want to call it that it's hard to complain about their efforts (well, that's not true, it's easy to complain, but in comparison it's fairly solid).

Note, however, that this mainly focuses on the Wii, and in regions other than Japan (especially NoA). Nintendo's track record in Japan isn't spotless (they launch games with hardly any fanfare and let them get trampled), but they put more effort into getting third party games over there, and they publish more games. Nintendo published Fatal Frame 4 there, it published Disaster (gasp, new IP!). I don't believe there's an announced date for either of those in NA. And Nintendo's actually published quirky, interesting, original games for the DS, not just Mario and Zelda over and over. Some even come out in NA, but again, NoA's track record is terrible.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Dont worry about disaster, its not a very good game if you have to believe the reviews. I think you could list that one under nintendo games btw, its made by monolith which is owned by nintendo.

 

[Flux]

Most of Nintendo's Wii games are made for kids and younger adults...that's what is relevent not whether or not they're games made for "hardcore" players. At the end of the day Wii's library is mostly shovelware and not for mature players. I'll own a PS3/X360 before I own a Wii. People need to stop defending the Wii, it does what it's supposed to which is make lots of money but it isn't a great console for mature themed games with high fidelity graphics. That's just reality. Look at all the big name franchises from 3rd party developers, they're developed for PS3/X360 not Wii. Wii gets leftovers that no mature gamer really cares about. You won't see RE5 or Assasin's Creed or DMC4 or MGS4 yadda yadda yadda on Wii. Let's move on shall we?

Well thats a false statement in my opinion. Most of the people buying games are 18-25 men. Games targetted directly at children are really rare compared to the core young adult audience. Young adult spend more on stupid sequels and expensive machines. I think women buy nintendos games more than any other console and it is showing in the sales charts.

 

[eastmen]

So here you go, the first two years in no particular order:
Gamecube:
Luigi's Mansion
Wind Waker
Mario Sunshine
Metroid Prime
Animal Crossing
Pikmin
SSBM
Eternal Darkness
Star Fox Adventures
Wave Race: Blue Storm
NBA Courtside 2002


On Wii
Super Paper Mario
Twilight Princess
Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime 3
Mario Kart Wii
SSBB

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Mario Party 8
Mario Strikers Charged
Excite Truck
Battalion Wars 2
Endless Ocean

I fixed your list because things like wii play do not add to the core. To me its just an excuse to charge $10 more for a controller.

That said the gamecube was crap. I'm sorry it really is. The system itself had really uneven releases and you could tell that the era of nintendo was done. The wii brought them back but i don't believe they care about the core now. Its obvious they can put less effort into a wii fit or wii sports and make more than on a zelda. Now that they know that they will continue with that.


I thinik the major thing is the lack of third party traditional games. There are really very few titles to tide over gamers like me and they are spaced so far apart that you sit for months without anything new to play. That is why my wii is my third system. I know I can buy a game 4 months later and still have a buffer befforce something else comes out

 

[Teasy]

Most of Nintendo's Wii games are made for kids and younger adults...that's what is relevent not whether or not they're games made for "hardcore" players. At the end of the day Wii's library is mostly shovelware and not for mature players. I'll own a PS3/X360 before I own a Wii. People need to stop defending the Wii, it does what it's supposed to which is make lots of money but it isn't a great console for mature themed games with high fidelity graphics. That's just reality. Look at all the big name franchises from 3rd party developers, they're developed for PS3/X360 not Wii. Wii gets leftovers that no mature gamer really cares about. You won't see RE5 or Assasin's Creed or DMC4 or MGS4 yadda yadda yadda on Wii. Let's move on shall we?

I always find it strange when someone talks about "mature games" like this. As if robbing and murdering people in a game is somehow mature yet an incredibly fun game like Mario Galaxy isn't because its not gritty and bloody.. A mature gamer wouldn't be put off a game because of the graphics style or content.

 

[obonicus]

Dont worry about disaster, its not a very good game if you have to believe the reviews. I think you could list that one under nintendo games btw, its made by monolith which is owned by nintendo.

Yeah, that's why I listed as a new IP. I don't know much about its quality, but it is an 'upscale' first-party game, and supposedly there's not even much to localize.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

I always find it strange when someone talks about "mature games" like this. As if robbing and murdering people in a game is somehow mature yet an incredibly fun game like Mario Galaxy isn't because its not gritty and bloody.. A mature gamer wouldn't be put off a game because of the graphics style or content.

You can also add insecure to the equation when you think of these so called mature games.

BTW, Fire Emblem is an extremely mature title from Nintendo. Probably their darkest series. That's why it took them so long to bring over the games. They deal with anything from mass genocide of children, to incestuous relationship between nobles, to racial tensions and prejudice. Of course, none of them were ever rated M either.

 

[RudeCurve]

Pokemon is made for mature gamers and RE5 is made for young adults....right.

 

[Cyan]

I always find it strange when someone talks about "mature games" like this. As if robbing and murdering people in a game is somehow mature yet an incredibly fun game like Mario Galaxy isn't because its not gritty and bloody.. A mature gamer wouldn't be put off a game because of the graphics style or content.

Mature games for me are games like Rock Band. A game which has a soul, it's pampered and Harmonix worked hard to create such an amazing game.

But guess what? There are soulless games, only created with the intention of making money with no benefit for the user at all like Wii Music.

That's for me the difference between mature and non mature games

 

[fearsomepirate]

but it's very hard for me to even begin to be impressed of games like the Conduit, which looks imo like crap.

Nintendo is not publishing the Conduit; Sega is. It's not really relevant at all.

The flaw with this reasoning is that you presume that their support was good in the GC days.

No, I do not. Rather, the people who howl that Nintendo has "abandoned" their core every time they announce an expanded market game are acting as though Nintendo published more core titles on the Gamecube. Since this isn't the case, since Nintendo is actually delivering more, better, and more often on Wii, why do you think the expanded market titles like Wii Fit and Wii Music make gamers so angry?

I fixed your list because things like wii play do not add to the core.

You did not fix it because you did not read my original post. Titles in bold are core titles. Titles not in bold are non-core titles (expanded audience, mostly). Wii Play was not in bold.

Now that they know that they will continue with that.

Do you have evidence? You do not. Nintendo's "core" oriented output has not slowed down at all. This kind of heuristic, hand-wavy, hearsay-based speculation is useless. Unless you have evidence demonstrating that Nintendo is no longer putting out key franchise titles as often as they did on Gamecube, don't say it.

I thinik the major thing is the lack of third party traditional games.

Now we're getting somewhere! The fact is, Nintendo hasn't abandoned its core. It's giving you more, better (btw, Mario Kart Wii is in fact much better than Double Dash, true scientific fact ), and more often than it was on Gamecube and, I suspect, N64. But the 3rd parties have really dropped the ball.

 

[Refreshment]

Fearsomepirate is correct, noticed this trend myself long time ago.

The thing is... a good portion of the enthusiasts of the videogame Hobie are easily manipulated by companies propaganda and tend to take false assumptions, such as this one , as facts.The same could be said about "videogame critics" (or whatever they are calling themselves now).

The flaw with this reasoning is that you presume that their support was good in the GC days.

I dont think they've done a better job. Most of the core games they did release are screwed up. SMG is great, but way to easy, no challange at all.

Adressing this 2 posts:

The value of the GC comparison fearsomepirate is making lays is that Nintendo was heading to its current position even before the Wii was released. Kind of like a multigenerational politic. For those who payed attention they started being vocal about it since the N64 days, talking about games for everyone, ease and time investment for the user, ease and economics of development, etc.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Nintendo is not publishing the Conduit; Sega is. It's not really relevant at all.

It's relevant to the major gripe I have with the system. The machine won't become any more up to date regardless of the publisher. Nintendo said fu to many people by using ancient tech. I used The Conduit as an example, because it is supposed to be one of the technically "impressive" titles.

 

[obonicus]

No, I do not. Rather, the people who howl that Nintendo has "abandoned" their core every time they announce an expanded market game are acting as though Nintendo published more core titles on the Gamecube. Since this isn't the case, since Nintendo is actually delivering more, better, and more often on Wii, why do you think the expanded market titles like Wii Fit and Wii Music make gamers so angry?

But you're being too dismissive. Nintendo's making money hand over fist. And yet their big holiday release was Wii Music, which, according to videos, no matter how much you try, or how much music training you have, you can't make sound better than 'bad', in great part because of incredibly cheap production values. Last year, though, their big release was SMG. Why is it too much to expect one Super Mario Galaxy-caliber game a year for the Wii? (I don't mean Mario itself. Nintendo has a lot of unexplored IP and they're certainly able to create new IP, aren't they?) Nintendo has a huge internal studio and they certainly can afford to spend some of that money to make games that appeal to the the audience that has proven that they won't abandon Nintendo no matter what.

Problem is, Nintendo knows they won't be abandoned by these people. So you have bizarre occurrences where people pretend to actually be happy that the big game this year is Wii Music, while they were just ecstatic about SMG last year. It's incomprehensible to me why Nintendo fans are so happy that Nintendo is branching out into a casual market. I mean, it's no reason to be angry, but it's no reason to be happy either, unless you own Nintendo stock. Especially when again and again, all Nintendo says is 'Fans should be happy, we gave them Mario, we gave them Zelda, we gave them Kart and Brawl, what else do they want?' when they're not going with the 'geeks and otakus' approach.

The biggest sinner here is NoA, again. Nintendo actually showed stuff before TGS. NoA's presentation during E3 was terrible; and E3 appeals to the 'core' gamer far more than to their new market. Their new market isn't going to care about a games expo: the purpose of E3 is to draw the interest of the core gamer and Nintendo failed spectacularly at that.

 

[obonicus]

The value of the GC comparison fearsomepirate is making lays is that Nintendo was heading to its current position even before the Wii was released. Kind of like a multigenerational politic. For those who payed attention they started being vocal about it since the N64 days, talking about games for everyone, ease and time investment for the user, ease and economics of development, etc.

So your point is that Nintendo has been abandoning the core for two generations? How many generations it spans doesn't matter if first-party support has been lacking (and again, the GC had actual new IP in Pikmin, which the Wii still hasn't brought unless you consider Wii * to be valid new IP). Nintendo fans are comforted by the Wii taking its place from the SNES days back (Why? I have several theories but they'd sound like borderline trolling, so I won't post here), but I'm sure they'd be happier if they had the first-party lineup the N64 did.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I dont think Nintendo fans keep backing nintendo. I dont think the biggest of nintendo fans can be happy with something like wii music. I'm a nintendo fan, and im certainly not liking how nintendo does stuff now. I stood up for them in the first year, a part of the second year, thinking that with the succes nintendo and 3rd party should have released that there is enough potential for the more core games. But for the last few months for me it pretty much became clear that wont happen. 3rd party still doesnt seem to care and even the few 3rd party titels that are in development and arnt just quick cash ins still seem to be done on a budget but B or C teams. I mean, those games still dont look any better than old ps2 and GC games so for me that pretty much shows the amount of effort they take. The wii might not be super powerfull, but with twice the power it cant be that hard to have every game look atleast like RE4 (which is still just GC power). Same for nintendo. They just dont care anymore it seems because the core games they do release generally are watered down too like SMG and mariokart. Or they just suck like disaster day of crysis (on a little side not, I find it suprising that every time Europe gets a game first from nintendo, its actually not that good...)

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Why is it too much to expect one Super Mario Galaxy-caliber game a year for the Wii?

Why is it too much to expect? Do you know how long Nintendo games take time to make? Do you know the amount of delays to polish a title? Games like Mario Galaxy didn't come from a single year of development. Have you ever seen how long it took to get Ocarina of Time? Plus, what about games coming from Nintendo in the future? Do those suddenly become irrelevant because all they have for X-mas this year is Wii Music?

Pokemon is made for mature gamers and RE5 is made for young adults....right.

I can tell you RE5 doesn't have 1/10th the amount of depth as Pokemon. Have you ever seen battles between 2 skilled trainers? The amount of time they spent raising the perfect Pokemon for combat? The amount of strategy used to outwit their opponent? Can you say the same for RE5? I know plenty of kids who play Pokemon without understanding any of that depth, and I'm sure kids can play RE5 without putting in a second of thought.

In a way, yes, Pokemon is for mature gamers, gamers who aren't too insecure about themselves and can really see beyond what's at the surface of the game, while RE5 is just another shallow game. I can write an encyclopedia on Pokemon battle strategies and still wouldn't consider myself a high ranking Pokemon trainer.

Oh, and I love it when people try to bring up mature using Pokemon Vs X without even the slightest knowledge about Pokemon other than what you see.

They just dont care anymore it seems because the core games they do release generally are watered down too like SMG and mariokart.

SMG is one of the highest rated games right now. If that's your definition of abandoned, I hate to see what you'd consider as support. Besides, watered down? Have you played some of today's game, then turn around and watch the media whine about some of the games being too hard? Look at Castlevania, Megaman 9, and Contra 4. Just look at all the whining. Also, you're like the only person I see who hates Mario Kart. Most people loved the game to death and love the online aspect. They got rid of snaking.