Factor5 making exclusives on PS3 because of performance

[therealskywolf]

Not really, 1 maybe 2 months ago there was news that Sony was shipping Ps3 dev kits to the UK, and developers said that the Ps3 dev kist are actually more advanced, meaning that they are much closer to what the final hardware will be than the Xbox 360 kits.

Hmm, so knowing that those kits have SLI GF6s, can we make the assumption that RSX won't be as advanced and different from other NV chips as Xenos is?

Well at the Sony Conference they were saying that the RSX was the equivalent of 2 6800 Ultras.....they say this at the the Conference, wich means IMO that their GPU (RSX) is an evolution and not a Revolution of what they have now.

128 bit Pixel Precision, they were talking about this with the FX series (I own a Fx 5950 Ultra)
Hdr, they have this in current Nvidia GPus

I really think that they are making a "Double Performer" with their next gpu, rather than introducing new Tech...and what will set the RSX appart from the G70 is that the RSX was modified in order to better work with Cell.

What Ati is Doing with Xenos, and possibly the Revolution GPu, is introducing the worlds 1st Gpu with unified Shader, add to that the Edram, and maybe other stuff....

Add to that the Fact that their Dev kits (at E3) are off the self G5 (They need to work with PPC architecture) and the max that G5 have are x800 and 6800....

So not only are they (Developers) being Hold Back by today's available Gpus(and CPUS, albeit to a lesser extent i imagine), they also cant use Dual x800 in the G5 (AMR still isnt ready) dev kits.....

So either XNA is really powerfull, and the Xbox 360 in the end is a cake to develop for, or 1st gen games are going to look sub par in face of what the Final hardware is able to achieve.

 

[Bohdy]

Well..in some general purpose (not math intensive) code the devkits CPUs could be even faster than final X360 CPU.

I'll like to clarify this. This comparison is between the CELL CPU and the X360 CPU? Or is this between a PPU and a X360 CPU?

I think is he is talking about the possiblility that the G5 based devkits could be faster than the simplified POWER processors in the final X360 in some cases.

 

[Qroach]

Well both Sweeny and Deano have verified that their demo work is PPU-only... SPUs haven't come into the picture yet. If there is really a need to be specific, the comparison at this very early stage is actually 1 PPU against dual-X360 prototype CPUs...

It's the cell CPU, not just the one PPU he's comparring. We don't know how much of the CPU he has explored to come to his strange conclusion. regardless he has the entire Cell CPU infront of him.

Also the xbox 360 dev kit is a dual G5 mac. th same kind you can buy in a store. Not exactly what I'd call a prototype CPU.

 

[one]

Also the xbox 360 dev kit is a dual G5 mac. th same kind you can buy in a store. Not exactly what I'd call a prototype CPU.

Well it may be overclocked.

 

[mckmas8808]

To me either way you look at it it's kind of a blow to MS. If the dev kits are less advanced then Sony's then that means that 1st generation games will probably be less advanced. If its true that the PS3 is more powerful than the X360 then that in itself is a blow.
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Rhode Island Dispensaries

 

[passby]

Ah Thank You! I understand now. Anyway from all the hints that have been dropped around, I'll expect performance of most 'non-math-crunching' code - probably AI and 'simulation/control' - to drop due to OOOE being dropped from the final CPUs. That's what nAo was refering to off course.

 

[Kolgar]

Why did Factor 5 develop for N64 and Gamecube in the first place? Was it because of "system power," or because Nintendo gave them moneyhats?

I could see F5 going GC regardless of money, because frankly, their games just wouldn't have been as spectacular on PS2. So it would seem that system power really is meaningful to them.

If going PS3 means system power AND moneyhats - which is what I'm guessing - then hey, they can't lose.

 

[fulcizombie]

Why did Factor 5 develop for N64 and Gamecube in the first place? Was it because of "system power," or because Nintendo gave them moneyhats?

I could see F5 going GC regardless of money, because frankly, their games just wouldn't have been as spectacular on PS2. So it would seem that system power really is meaningful to them.

If going PS3 means system power AND moneyhats - which is what I'm guessing - then hey, they can't lose.

Factor 5 wasn't developing for nintendo,they were developing for lucasarts.Lucasarts had made a deal with nintendo to keep the RL games,nintendo-exclusives so factor 5 were nintendo exclusive by default.They lost their contract with lucasarts after RL3 bombed,both commercially and critically,and then started to look for a publisher.They begun their quest by sucking up to MS but after ,apparently,they couldn't cut a deal with MS ,for whatever reasons,they went to sony.

Oh and sony consoles always had moneyhats,sony bought the GTA time exclusive,the VF franchise during the ps2-era,a good piece of squaresoft shares(during the 32 bit era) and more.

Anyway factor-5 are now a second party to sony and that's all there is to know as far as taking into account any kind of BS they say.

 

[Mordecaii]

And MS bought Bungie and exclusive rights to plenty of games themselves... your point? And besides, what do people expect Factor 5 to say? "Yeah we're making games for Sony but their console sucks"??? Of course they're going to hype the system, especially if they want to keep making games. And fulcizombie... you views seem to be HEAVILY skewed, so don't blame me if I don't quite agree.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well if they are helping Guerilla make Killzone then all I can say is great. If they can help make the graphics look incredible then it was all worth it.
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One Vaporizer

 

[fulcizombie]

And MS bought Bungie and exclusive rights to plenty of games themselves... your point? And besides, what do people expect Factor 5 to say? "Yeah we're making games for Sony but their console sucks"??? Of course they're going to hype the system, especially if they want to keep making games. And fulcizombie... you views seem to be HEAVILY skewed, to don't blame me if I don't quite agree.

Hold on a second...we are basically saying the same thing!!!I was quoting another message when talking about money(that seemd to imply that sony hasn't used money hats until now).

You are saying the exact same thing with me...factor 5 are now a sony 2nd party developer so their word is just as "important" as bungie's,rare's,insomniac's and every other developer that has a close relationship(=semi-owned or completely owned) with sony or microsoft(or nintendo).

 

[Mordecaii]

Hmmmm... when reading your post I just got the impression that you were specifically stating that Sony used their money to "buy out" developers more than other companies and thus were somehow an evil corporation compared to MS and Nintendo... if that was not what you were saying, then I apologize. 8)

 

[jonnyp]

Well..in some general purpose (not math intensive) code the devkits CPUs could be even faster than final X360 CPU.

I'll like to clarify this. This comparison is between the CELL CPU and the X360 CPU? Or is this between a PPU and a X360 CPU?

Comparing one CPU in sony's devkit (cell) to a CPU in microsofts devkit (a dual CPU power PC) when he CLEARLY knows that the xbox 360 devkits CPU is NOT the final hardware.

Well both Sweeny and Deano have verified that their demo work is PPU-only... SPUs haven't come into the picture yet. If there is really a need to be specific, the comparison at this very early stage is actually 1 PPU against dual-X360 prototype CPUs...

Noooooo, not PPU! Arrrgh!

They're only using the PPC!

 

[fulcizombie]

Hmmmm... when reading your post I just got the impression that you were specifically stating that Sony used their money to "buy out" developers more than other companies and thus were somehow an evil corporation compared to MS and Nintendo... if that was not what you were saying, then I apologize. 8)

Nope,moneyhats from everyone!!

To be honest,situations like this factor5-Sony one(or the MS-Silicon Knights agreement) can't even be called "money hat".The term "money hat" is used to describe when a hardware manfacturer pays A THIRD PARTY publisher for an exclusive/time exclusive.Buying develpers can not be described as giving "money hats",IMO.

I just find really hypocritical to take the claims of a sony 2nd party as anything beyond just that....the claims of a sony 2nd party.And saying that factor5(again a developer that has only produced complete garbage as far as gameplay goes,IMO) becoming a sony 2nd party is a blow for....MS(for which they had never developed anything) is really stupid,IMO

 

[hugo]

You guys are obviously joking in this thread are you?

 

[ralexand]

Ah Thank You! I understand now. Anyway from all the hints that have been dropped around, I'll expect performance of most 'non-math-crunching' code - probably AI and 'simulation/control' - to drop due to OOOE being dropped from the final CPUs. That's what nAo was refering to off course.

Can someone explain this to me or give me a link to this discussion? Did MS intentionally cripple there system.

 

[hugo]

Can someone explain this to me or give me a link to this discussion? Did MS intentionally cripple there system.

Why would they want to do that?They only have 6 months more to send their systems to shelfs.Productions have very well been started or else they won't be able to meet their datelines.

 

[Kolgar]

Hold on a second...we are basically saying the same thing!!!I was quoting another message when talking about money(that seemd to imply that sony hasn't used money hats until now).

Nope, certainly not what I was implying.

But I'd forgot to mention that obviously, F5 stands to gain a lot if the PS2 userbase buys PS3. So there's incentive above and beyond technology and moneyhats...

 

[MechanizedDeath]

Money hats are assumed for too many things. There aren't many games with the clout of a GTA. Sony no doubt offers them incentives to keep that exclusive, and Squeenix probably gets good incentives to stay on board. But VF? WTF would Sony need to pay for that for when (a) it's not that great a seller, which is the most important thing and (b) they have every other fighter under the sun? I mean, they even had DOA, and Tekken outsells VF everytime. VF is big in Japan, but not anywhere else. And Sony is the only show in town in Japan. Put 2+2 together, and it seemed to me that AM2 was just doing the obvious thing for their company's bottom line. That said, I wouldn't rule out them getting a special discount for VF, but I wouldn't exactly bet on that being the case. When you have a 70M user advantage that's only widening, there's not a whole lot of incentive for you to keep forking over money for exclusives. They tend to come naturally after a while. PEACE.

 

[Mordecaii]

Both CPU's use in order correct? To be honest, I'm not exactly sure why MS/Sony went with this (I could hazard a guess but I'd rather not). Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages, and why MS would do this? (I read why they went with it in the CELL).