Factor 5 on their Wii engine.

[ninzel]

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/12/factor-5-wii-engine-does-everything-the-ps3-did-and-then-some/

Is he simply trying to attract some attention to his project by being sensationalist,or is there something to his comments?Obviously the Wii is not as powerful as the PS3,so I wonder what he means.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

An engine doesn't necessarily mean graphics alone. He's probably talking about the tools they've built for the engine allowing them to create games as easily as the PS3.

 

[Teasy]

I'm more interested in the fact that Factor 5 have a Wii engine almost finished then these comments. Eggebrecht has always done this kind of PR for his technology, I can't wait to see what they've acheived. Hopefully, if its as good an engine for Wii as there GC engine was, other developers will be able to license it out and produce some decent graphics on the system.

 

[patsu]

I'm more interested in the fact that Factor 5 have a Wii engine almost finished then these comments. Eggerbrecht has always done this kind of PR for his technology, I can't wait to see what they've acheived. Hopefully, if its as good an engine for Wii as there GC engine was, other developers will be able to license it out and produce some decent graphics on the system.

Yes ! That's the spirit anyway. I am certainly glad that their Lair engine and experiences are not wasted.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Eggebeicht should just shut up, TBH. If this comment is right, and Broadway is handling the progressive mesh of Lair to the same detail and draw distance (along with everything else), than his comments that only Cell makes it possible are trash, and he's to be ignored. Whereas if he's completely wrong, and the Wii engine isn't managing what the PS3 was, than his comments that Wii's achieving everything PS3 was and then some are trash and he's to be ignored.

He is the archetypal blow-hard. Shut up and make games, man!

 

[Neb]

Eggebeicht should just shut up, TBH. If this comment is right, and Broadway is handling the progressive mesh of Lair to the same detail and draw distance (along with everything else), than his comments that only Cell makes it possible are trash, and he's to be ignored. Whereas if he's completely wrong, and the Wii engine isn't managing what the PS3 was, than his comments that Wii's achieving everything PS3 was and then some are trash and he's to be ignored.

He is the archetypal blow-hard. Shut up and make games, man!

So many devs says "only possible on..." and I reckon it in most if not all cases are just about hyping up or making their game more interesting. Really in the end I think it is all about selling the game/console and such comments always atracts.

Still as you said, he has cornered himself there unless we have missunderstood him.

 

[PARANOiA]

Eggebeicht should just shut up, TBH.

Bingo. This is the guy that said PS3 games have better graphics because of HDMI

 

[archangelmorph]

Eggebeicht should just shut up, TBH. If this comment is right, and Broadway is handling the progressive mesh of Lair to the same detail and draw distance (along with everything else), than his comments that only Cell makes it possible are trash, and he's to be ignored. Whereas if he's completely wrong, and the Wii engine isn't managing what the PS3 was, than his comments that Wii's achieving everything PS3 was and then some are trash and he's to be ignored.

He is the archetypal blow-hard. Shut up and make games, man!

I wholeheartedly concur..

Surely the guy has learned by now that these kind of statements don't accomplish anything other than coming back & biting you in the ass..

 

[Entropy]

Er...
This is the link to the origin of the article:
http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/851/851287p1.html

I'll quote from the original, where Eggebrecht is quoted as saying:
"We're pretty much at a state where we're almost done with the engine. At the same time, we've also been working on content quite a bit because we had enough running very quickly on the platform that we were able to. But the biggest milestone or mark right now is that we're almost done with the engine and it does everything that the PS3 did and then some, quite frankly. So we're pretty happy with that."
Note that he is very explicitly talking about the engine, and what it offers.

The only statements he does about graphical performance are these:
"I mean, on the graphical side, we're going to try and do everything to outdo everything else on the platform, "
And to some extent here:
""Whatever we're working on will at least blow you away in a lot of the technical aspects. We're really trying to do everything to squeeze the maximum out of the machine," he said. "I'm also hoping we're going to pay respect to what the console is all about, which is the innovation in terms of controls, in terms of accessibility, new experiences, things like that. We're really, really trying hard. I hope it's going to pay off."

He makes NO comparison between Wii and PS3 graphical capabilities whatsoever.

 

[Neb]

So they created a engine that can do everything the PS3 can do or compute but they won't use all the functions for Wii. Or maybe in a smaller scale perhaps? Otherwise it seems a bit strange to create a engine with features you won't use at all in the end.

 

[patsu]

Yeah, F5 guys are trying their best to exploit the hardware and outdo themselves. Even though I am not a fan of his pompous statements, I certainly hope that they learned how _not_ to make a game from the Lair experience.

Eggebeicht also hinted at a Lair patch, I hope they will do more than adding analog control. Remove all the interrupting cutscenes (or put them in PIP) and fix the bugs in the bombing run level please

 

[rekator]

So they created a engine that can do everything the PS3 can do or compute but they won't use all the functions for Wii. Or maybe in a smaller scale perhaps? Otherwise it seems a bit strange to create a engine with features you won't use at all in the end.

May be it's a multi-plateform engine on the artists size, so game asset can be use on both plateform but not with the same quality… or it's only a Buzz like many other…

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Note that he is very explicitly talking about the engine, and what it offers.

Engine encompasses graphics. Engine encompasses everything! Engine is the code that supports the assets in creating a game. It's the IO, graphics pipeline, audio, special FX, etc. If the PS3 engine was capable of 3 motion axis input and 4 million tessellated triangles a frame at 30 fps and 1080p upscaled graphics, then for a Wii engine to do the same, it needs to handle 3 motion input, 4 million tris per frame and upscaling to 1080p.

Now he could loosely be talking in terms of features and not scale, so Wii could support normal mapping and tessellated LOD to infinity and blah-de-blah but with fewer objects and less pixels and all, but that's not really the same as the same engine. Kinda like if I have a 6 foot tall quadruple expansion steam engine with 8 cylinders generating 1000 watts of power and you have a 6" tall double expansion steam engine with 4 cylinders generating 2 watts of power, though in design principle you have the same engine working in the same way, you'd hardly say your engine can do everything mine can!

Or I suppose he could be saying that the software on Wii could do everything the PS3 can if the hardware was fast enough - that the engine supports all the same features. I s'pose that'd be fair, and hype, but still all the same it'll come back to bite Julian in the butt when, no matter how good his engine is, the hardware produces results that aren't comparable and people say that game isn't as 'technical' as Lair.

 

[Betanumerical]

Engine encompasses graphics. Engine encompasses everything! Engine is the code that supports the assets in creating a game. It's the IO, graphics pipeline, audio, special FX, etc. If the PS3 engine was capable of 3 motion axis input and 4 million tessellated triangles a frame at 30 fps and 1080p upscaled graphics, then for a Wii engine to do the same, it needs to handle 3 motion input, 4 million tris per frame and upscaling to 1080p.

Now he could loosely be talking in terms of features and not scale, so Wii could support normal mapping and tessellated LOD to infinity and blah-de-blah but with fewer objects and less pixels and all, but that's not really the same as the same engine. Kinda like if I have a 6 foot tall quadruple expansion steam engine with 8 cylinders generating 1000 watts of power and you have a 6" tall double expansion steam engine with 4 cylinders generating 2 watts of power, though in design principle you have the same engine working in the same way, you'd hardly say your engine can do everything mine can!

Or I suppose he could be saying that the software on Wii could do everything the PS3 can if the hardware was fast enough - that the engine supports all the same features. I s'pose that'd be fair, and hype, but still all the same it'll come back to bite Julian in the butt when, no matter how good his engine is, the hardware produces results that aren't comparable and people say that game isn't as 'technical' as Lair.

May I ask how you computed the millions of triangles / frame?.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They're just made up numbers for illustration.

 

[Betanumerical]

They're just made up numbers for illustration.

Oh my bad. But I can see where your coming from. For some reason I doubt the Wii is pushing 200,000 polys on the main character + dragon.

 

[patsu]

Engine encompasses graphics. Engine encompasses everything! Engine is the code that supports the assets in creating a game. It's the IO, graphics pipeline, audio, special FX, etc. If the PS3 engine was capable of 3 motion axis input and 4 million tessellated triangles a frame at 30 fps and 1080p upscaled graphics, then for a Wii engine to do the same, it needs to handle 3 motion input, 4 million tris per frame and upscaling to 1080p.

Now he could loosely be talking in terms of features and not scale, so Wii could support normal mapping and tessellated LOD to infinity and blah-de-blah but with fewer objects and less pixels and all, but that's not really the same as the same engine. Kinda like if I have a 6 foot tall quadruple expansion steam engine with 8 cylinders generating 1000 watts of power and you have a 6" tall double expansion steam engine with 4 cylinders generating 2 watts of power, though in design principle you have the same engine working in the same way, you'd hardly say your engine can do everything mine can!

Or I suppose he could be saying that the software on Wii could do everything the PS3 can if the hardware was fast enough - that the engine supports all the same features. I s'pose that'd be fair, and hype, but still all the same it'll come back to bite Julian in the butt when, no matter how good his engine is, the hardware produces results that aren't comparable and people say that game isn't as 'technical' as Lair.

If it's for Wii's SD resolution, then I think it's a scaled down environment (may be lesser enemies than Lair), plus Wiimote aware. Not sure if it makes sense to do the fluid dynamic water in the new game too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If it's for Wii's SD resolution, then I think it's might be a scaled down environment (may be lesser enemies than Lair)

Further to resolution, limited RAM will also necessitate simple environments, and less power GPU for that matter Another space shooter would be ideal as there's squat environment to worry about then and Factor 5 can go whole hog on modelling and lighting the ships to make something that looks good.

I think the biggest question mark has to be over the LOD. Eggbrecht was clear about only the SPE's having the power to do progressive mesh on absolutely everything (well, he said only SPEs can do progressive mesh at all to begin with IIRC!), and I'm guessing Wii won't be up to that, unless the meshes are dead simple. Again, with a space shooter that same PS3 engine tech could be applied on an order of magnitude simpler assets.

 

[Neb]

Oh my bad. But I can see where your coming from. For some reason I doubt the Wii is pushing 200,000 polys on the main character + dragon.

I certainly dont think the Wii is cappable of what the PS3 is, not in the same scale and same amount. And that dragon + character number is certainly for the cutscene models since the ingame doesn't look to have anymwhere near 200k, more like ~50k or less IMO. :smile:

 

[theafu]

The intent of his comment really should've been said better because if he literally means everything that's just not possible.