Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[sfried]

Given its commercial availability, is it possible they could license some derivative form of Blu-Ray? Perhaps they'll pull off another mini-DVD like and go with a smaller disk.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Im aware of that. But licensing, i would asume (going by logic here), would be cheaper for them considering HD-DVD is discontinued.

Too bad SSD is expensive for the close future, console systemds would benefit from using it. Wonder if Nintendo is even contemplaiting a mechanical hard drive for the machine.

Yes, licensing could be really cheap (even more as the standard belongs to the DVD Foundation and not a couple of multinational companies) but right now, the production price for both the discs and the drives should be quite a bit higher than Blu-Ray.


Nintendo won't go with mechanical hard drives almost for sure. It'll surely be solid-state, even if it's in a slow-ish eMMC implementation. I'd point at something like 16-32GB as a realistic and quite cheap option for 2012.

 

[Refreshment]

Given its commercial availability, is it possible they could license some derivative form of Blu-Ray? Perhaps they'll pull off another mini-DVD like and go with a smaller disk.

That would be great if it actually happened. Know that blu ray features a hard coating (Durabis?) to prevent scratches but how cool could it be if the mini blu rays came in caddies. Like Sony´s defunct mini disk. Like the feeling because it reminds me of slimmer cartridges... cool retro tech stuff

Of course Laser Discs for the console would be the ultimate trip

 

[Megadrive1988]

2008 article on Wii HD

What They Play has heard from multiple sources in the game development
and publishing community that Nintendo is currently showing early
presentations of its next home console hardware. Apparently set to hit
the market “by 2011” the new device is said to be the true “next
generation” Nintendo console, and far more than a simple refresh of
the current hardware. Unlike previous console transitions from
Nintendo, the new system will be presented as a true successor to the
Wii, and is being dubbed by those that have seen the presentation as
“Wii HD.” There is no indication if this will be its eventual name,
but the nature of the transition has been characterized as similar to
“the shift from Game Boy to Game Boy Advance,” where familiar, key
elements were left intact while the core hardware was made more
powerful. It is expected by all those that we have spoken to on the
subject that the new device will retain the Wii name in part.


While our sources are reluctant to be too specific about “Wii HD,”
they have been able to divulge some (albeit predictable)
generalizations. High definition visuals are assured, as is a greater
emphasis on digitally distributed and backwardly compatible content,
indicating that the new system will feature some form of local storage
medium such as a hard drive or large flash memory solution. It has
also been indicated that Nintendo’s emphasis is again on what the
consumer will hold in their hands and interact with, rather than the
“console” itself.


Nintendo has proven it can be extremely successful by leveraging
processor technology that is not on the bleeding edge, and be more
profitable and more innovative as a result. In a 2006 interview with
Business Week, Nintendo visionary Shigeru Miyamoto stated, “The
consensus [at Nintendo] was that power isn't everything for a console.
Too many powerful consoles can't coexist. It's like having only
ferocious dinosaurs. They might fight and hasten their own
extinction.” Based on our conversations about “Wii HD” this attitude
would seem to still prevail.


But why should you believe this? Everything stated so far could easily
have been the result of educated guesswork or speculation. While a
Nintendo representative provided the expected response that, “Nintendo
does not comment on speculation or rumor,” there is additional
evidence, outside this commentary, to suggest that something is going
on.


In 2003, Nintendo declared that $34 million was spent on R&D. This
figure steadily climbed to $103 million in 2006 and the following year
bumped dramatically to $370 million.


Based on figures from Nintendo’s annual financial reports, the company
is currently spending more than ten times as much on research and
development as it was five years ago, and since the Wii was launched
in 2006, R&D spending has more than tripled. While this could be
attributed to any number of additional projects, the level of spending
suggests that a large project is in the works. In 2003, Nintendo
declared that $34 million was spent on R&D. This figure steadily
climbed to $103 million in 2006 (the year that the Wii launched) and
the following year bumped dramatically to $370 million. When asked to
explain the escalated spending, Nintendo representatives were unable
to provide comment.


The current Wii hardware is based upon processors and graphics
technology supplied by IBM and AMD. These two companies have a joint
development agreement together, which is described by AMD as being
focused “on delivering a range of integrated platforms to serve key
markets, including … gaming and media computing.”


The joint development agreement between IBM and AMD expires on
December 31, 2011 but “may be extended further by the mutual agreement
of the parties.” This suggests that Nintendo will be leveraging
research and development from the partnership in time to ensure that
it’s new hardware will be compatible with the Wii’s current
“Hollywood” and “Broadway” processors. As Microsoft learned in the
transition from Xbox to Xbox 360, switching hardware vendors can make
running older games on a new system a much more difficult proposition.


The dramatic bump in spending at Nintendo may also be reflective of
Nintendo’s work on a rumored new DS, said to feature a camera and
music player. Iterating on the DS in 2009 would certainly shake up the
market, though given the incredible monthly sales of the device it
hardly needs reinvigorating for the time being. When the Nintendo DS
was launched in 2004, the worldwide installed base of the Game Boy
Advance was 53 million (on top of the Game Boy’s incredibly huge 118
million.) So far, 80 million Nintendo DS units have been sold
worldwide, and demand shows no sign of slowing.


It is unlikely that any official acknowledgement of Nintendo’s new
hardware will come until at least 2009, however company president
Satoru Iwata will be delivering his annual fall presentation this
Wednesday.

http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/

Hopefully Wii HD / Wii 2 / Project Cafe will a huge, huge leap beyond Wii. I'm still hoping for RV770-like power.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I think we should take a step back here and put things into perspective.

There was a very good article about the Wii, near its release, that argued about Nintendo's main goal with that set of hardware. The guy said that N was out of money to get into a competition with the two big players on high budget HD titles, and their strategy for that was to move forward and invent new game genres where they could be the only player. The best tool to enable that and at the same time guarantee a few years of headstart was - as it has been with the analog stick on the N64 - a new input device.

I guess it's safe to say that if that was the plan, it has worked out pretty well. Even though we've seen some first person shooters and 3rd person platformers and such with the wiimote, it was the new kind of games that sold the most units.

Now, the situation has changed in a few ways. Competitors have caught up with the new input devices to various levels, yes; but on the other hand it is now Nintendo who's holding the largest market share and they also sit on a really big pile of money, so they probably aren't as afraid of competition this time.

Then again I don't think they would be willing to return to a loss leader strategy, especially if we consider that both MS and Sony are now getting very very bad returns on all their hw related investments. They might decide to aim for $350 or maybe even higher, the X360 is proof that you can sell something as expensive in large quantities. But you also need something special to move units and the ability to run the next COD games isn't necessarily that.

A touch screen could be a reasonably good differentiator, enabling new game genres again and with a few years of headstart in development they could once again establish themselves without any serious competition on their own playing field.

The only problem is that I'm not sure if touch screen based user input can be made interesting enough for a lot of people to jump on board. It was quite radically new to allow you to play using everyday movement patterns instead of buttons and sticks, compared to that a pointer on the screen feels like a step backwards.
Of course it could also turn out to be a completely opposing case, where motion control ends up being insufficient and a one-time wonder. But I'd rather think that we haven't seen or heard anything about Nintendo's big new thing yet.

The actual hardware specs are only exciting in that they'll decide if multiplatform games can go on two or three systems in the next generation. It is an interesting question for sure - on one hand, if Nintendo invited multiplatform games to their system, it'd require their developers to raise the quality of their own titles to the same quality level. On the other hand it'd bring in a significant income from license fees as well. Maybe someone could do a rough calculation of how much third party related income the PS3 and the X360 has, and then check if it'd outweigh the budget increase for at least 15-20 Nintendo titles...

 

[RudeCurve]

Given its commercial availability, is it possible they could license some derivative form of Blu-Ray? Perhaps they'll pull off another mini-DVD like and go with a smaller disk.

What would be the advantage of going mini-BD??? Please don't say anti-piracy...

Nintendo had to finally admit DVD is better than mini-DVD when they adopted it for Wii.

 

[Squilliam]

I think we should take a step back here and put things into perspective.

The only problem is that I'm not sure if touch screen based user input can be made interesting enough for a lot of people to jump on board. It was quite radically new to allow you to play using everyday movement patterns instead of buttons and sticks, compared to that a pointer on the screen feels like a step backwards.

If buttons are better than waggle and a touch screen is a better and more comfortable pointer compared to the pointer on a Wiimote or Move then surely a touch screen with buttons would be the best interface?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I don't think it's something we could decide here. Noone expected such success from the Wiimote and most were sceptical about Kinect as well, and look how those turned out. Maybe a simple touchscreen is going to be enough, after all Nintendo has experience with it from the DS.
Or maybe that's why the rumor is about a touch screen - but in reality it's completely wrong and we're going to get something that's a mix of Wiimote, Kinect, Wii Fit and whatever.

 

[Refreshment]

Yes, licensing could be really cheap (even more as the standard belongs to the DVD Foundation and not a couple of multinational companies) but right now, the production price for both the discs and the drives should be quite a bit higher than Blu-Ray.


Nintendo won't go with mechanical hard drives almost for sure. It'll surely be solid-state, even if it's in a slow-ish eMMC implementation. I'd point at something like 16-32GB as a realistic and quite cheap option for 2012.

Oh i don't know how i skiped by withouth noticing this. Thanks for the reply ToTTenTranz.

but right now, the production price for both the discs and the drives should be quite a bit higher than Blu-Ray.

Interesting... the drive i could imagine but production of disks more expensive? One of the claimed advantages of the HD-DVD format was how easy it is to shift production to the HD disks using the same DVD factories. Or your claim comes from the scarse availabilty of the disks because the format is extinct now?

I don't think it's something we could decide here. Noone expected such success from the Wiimote and most were sceptical about Kinect as well, and look how those turned out. Maybe a simple touchscreen is going to be enough, after all Nintendo has experience with it from the DS.

That's the hole think thats driving people nuts, the screen. I speculated in other posts the one way the touch screen beats the Wiiremote for poiting is if Nintendo decides to stream the video signal to both the touch screen and TV, but then player focus becomes a problem. The only other thing (that crosses my mind) Nintendo could do is finger tracking close to the touch screen so the user can focus on the TV. But thats not very atractive or even as useful as what they already have.

Always thought the safest bet was the marriage of their 2 handed split controller with a 3D camera. Are patent locks too strong to employ a 3D camera in other videogame device not belonging to MS?

 

[sfried]

What would be the advantage of going mini-BD??? Please don't say anti-piracy...

Nintendo had to finally admit DVD is better than mini-DVD when they adopted it for Wii.

Seek-times perhaps? I know they have always aimed for consoles with low load-times. Also when they had adopted DVD it was because it had already been widespread.

 

[Rangers]

Nintendo won't go with mechanical hard drives almost for sure. It'll surely be solid-state, even if it's in a slow-ish eMMC implementation. I'd point at something like 16-32GB as a realistic and quite cheap option for 2012.

I am sure there will be no such thing. Standard hard drives are a crippling expense and Nintendo will avoid them like the plague. Especially since they hate online anyway. There will be no hard drive in this machine.

You'll already have an apparently expensive controller sapping a lot of cost in this console...

Edit: on second thought 8GB of flash MIGHT happen, maybe...

 

[RudeCurve]

Seek-times perhaps? I know they have always aimed for consoles with low load-times. Also when they had adopted DVD it was because it had already been widespread.

Nope, seek times would actually be slower. With a full sized disc you could duplicate data. There's also the advantage of being able to put more data on the outer circumference of a full size disc which results in higher data throughput per revolution.

DVD was already widespread when GC launched...see PS2...besides a GOD IS a DVD. When they adopted fullsize DVDs for the Wii it was a day late and a dollar short...couldn't even play DVD movies...lol.

I am sure there will be no such thing. Standard hard drives are a crippling expense and Nintendo will avoid them like the plague. Especially since they hate online anyway. There will be no hard drive in this machine.

I would love for Nintendo to have an optional non-proprietary mass storage solution eg HDD for installing games using USB 3.0. Something like PS360 but external and stackable to keep the WiiHD small.

 

[AlphaWolf]

When they adopted fullsize DVDs for the Wii it was a day late and a dollar short...couldn't even play DVD movies...lol.

And they saved several dollars on every unit because of that. They didn't want to pay the licensing fee.

 

[theLonely1]

Anyway: Does anyone think its worth a discussion on say the Wiimotes actual pointer vs a hypothetical touch screen interface, I.E. which is the better of the two overall for the kinds of things you do with a modern console.

I don't see the touchscreen being a good replacement for the pointer. Maybe the gyros in the tablet?

 

[Squilliam]

I don't see the touchscreen being a good replacement for the pointer. Maybe the gyros in the tablet?

I don't think its actually that clear cut. When I think of a touch screen I immediately think it'd be useless for an FPS game because it would be too easy to simply point and kill and that because of that fact FPS games would be boring. However if the interface is too easy for an FPS game because it's too easy to point then maybe that makes it the perfect interface for everything else, do you see my point?

It can display either a contextualised display OR a 1:1 relative representation of the screen and I assume that so long as everything is proportional people would have no more trouble poking a touch screen as they would using a mouse or a pointer like the Wiimote and perhaps with the added comfort of being able to use it from rest which has been one of the downsides of the Wiimote which requires line of sight.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I'll be happy if Nintendo's console can do stuff like this in real-time @ 60fps 1080p


CG portions of Mixcore's "Rebirth" used to demo GameCube's FMV playback

Of course it'll look even better in HD resolution(s)

I am aware that some portions were done real-time on GameCube, so I selected the CG stuff as examples

 

[Dregun]

I agree that Nintendo's purpose of having a HD screen on a controller is to use it as an extension of the Wii2 as a mid-portable device. The console would just be able to stream the content to and from the controller freeing up the TV, basically a more closed version of On-Live.

HOWEVER,

Wouldn't have it been in Nintendos best interest to have included that functionality on the 3DS as a hidden feature? That way they would have had the possilbity of selling additional more expensive handhelds for future Wii2 owners who didn't have one at that time. Although I loved the VMU for the dreamcast I can't see this being that great of an idea for the company who wanted to "Free" the player from the controller.

This type of design is completely contrast to the Wii, the Wii sold because of its casual style of play and without it Nintendo would be a 3rd party studio as NOBODY would have bought such an underpowered piece of tech just to play a few first party games. Waggle made the Wii and unless Nintendo wants to compete with the big dogs on cutting edge tech they have to rely on what got them to this point... casual gamers.

 

[Rangers]

I dont see the screens and cpu's onto controllers adding anything compelling to the experience (just look at Kotaku speculating about game ideas using the controller screen, and they all sound terrible), but they will add a lot to the cost, which in turn will pull dollars out of the main console's graphics capability, which is always what needs to be focused on imo.

2012 release date means it's a guaranteed tweener system destined to be Dreamcasted.

To me the whole project seems terrible. I mean I'm interested to see details, glad Nintendo is kicking off next gen, etc, but Nintendo, and it seems Japan in general, has lost the plot.

 

[Refreshment]

Look what i dug up while surfing around:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2006/tc20061116_750580.htm

The DS handheld gaming console, released in 2004, is now the hottest-selling portable video game machine. Did the success of the DS influence your design decisions?

Ashida: The DS had a huge impact on the Wii's design. We had the DS on our minds as we worked on the Wii. We thought about copying the DS's touch-panel interface and even came up with a prototype. But then we rejected the idea, since the portable console and the living-room console would have been exactly the same.

Miyamoto: The DS prepared the way for the Wii. The DS's unique interface had traction with nongamers. That made us think we had a shot at reaching a broader audience. But if the DS had flopped, we might have taken the Wii back to the drawing board.

Its incredible that no gaming site picked this old gem

 

[Teasy]

Being able to play my console anywhere in the house sounds compelling to me, not to mention the extra control possibilities that will come from a touch screen on the controller. I've never understood why some people want all console makers to do the same old thing, diversity is a good thing.