enter 'Hollywood' - ATI's Graphics Processor for Revolution

[Carl B]

PS: Thinking Final Fantasy will be launching on anything other than where its core userbase is (the PlayStation platform) is an insult to Square and their ability to make viable decisions.

<sarcasm on>
You mean like the time Square moved from the largest gaming platform where its core userbase was to a new-comer console with no userbase that fitted there vision of gaming more...

God moving to Playstation 1 was such a bad decision, I wish you were running Square back them to stop them making such a horrible mistake... <sarcasm off>

Actually, I remember an article from waaaaay back when that actually discussed the reasons for the split between Square and Nintendo.

It basically went like this: When Nintendo was designing the N64, Square pushed for a system that would be able to hold more data than the cartridges Nintendo was thinking of using could hold; basically they were pushing for optical storage. Nintendo basically told them, no, we're going with the cartridge (for load times). Squares president and Nintendos got in a verbal sparring match, with Square telling Nintendo that without the added capacity of optical, they would not design for Nintendo. Nintendo basically told them, 'who cares, we don't need you anyway.'

And then like a year later, FFVII was released on Playstation.

In my opinion, that was probably one of the costliest mistakes Nintendo ever made. I know it's why I got my Playstation.

Anyway a couple of years later they mended the fence.

 

[London Geezer]

Videogames market version of The Bold and The Beautiful

I LOVE it when people make business look like big soap operas.
It's business, Square was sure they would make more money by releasing a big cinematic easy-on-the-casuals FF7 with lots of FMV, and PS1 was the right medium because of the added capacity. And they made the right choice because FF7 was an immense success that opened RPGs to the masses, not only Japanese fans... The die hard fans will always bitch about them selling out and making FF games all about FMV, but really, from a purely financial point of view, opening FF games to the american and especially european markets was a very good decision. And (sadly?) it could only happen by making FF very pretty with lots of shiny FMV sequences.

All the door slamming, bitch slapping stories are just details.

 

[Phil]

But really, Sony was a new entry, totally unproven and they only had promises.

Not quite:

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps_e.html

Roughly 2 years after the launch of the PlayStation in January of 1997 (the year Final Fantasy launched?) - the PlayStation had already sold

Japan: 5 million units
USA: 3.6 million
Europe: 2.4 million

Totalling ~11 million units. How many N64 did Nintendo sell until then (N64 launched in 1996)?

If you look at the data more accurately, you might notice that the PlayStation brand enjoyed rising sales after Mai 1996. (5 million -> 10 million, 11 million, 13.5m, 17m, 20m and up to 28+m by the end of 1997).


(DeanoC - my reply is a page back incase you miss it)

 

[London Geezer]

But really, Sony was a new entry, totally unproven and they only had promises.

Not quite:

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps_e.html

Roughly 2 years after the launch of the PlayStation in January of 1997 (the year Final Fantasy launched?) - the PlayStation had already sold

Japan: 5 million units
USA: 3.6 million
Europe: 2.4 million

Totalling ~11 million units. How many N64 did Nintendo sell until then (N64 launched in 1996)?

If you look at the data more accurately, you might notice that the PlayStation brand enjoyed rising sales after Mai 1996. (5 million -> 10 million, 11 million, 13.5m, 17m, 20m and up to 28+m by the end of 1997).


(DeanoC - my reply is a page back incase you miss it)

They could have gone to Sega, they were outselling Sony at the beginning. Besides, the N64 was delayed many times. Not saying you're wrong, just saying that if MS magically starts selling Xbox2s like hotcakes, Square will bite into that market. It all depends on when PS3 is released, relative to other platforms.

 

[Carl B]

Videogames market version of The Bold and The Beautiful

I LOVE it when people make business look like big soap operas.
It's business, Square was sure they would make more money by releasing a big cinematic easy-on-the-casuals FF7 with lots of FMV, and PS1 was the right medium because of the added capacity. And they made the right choice because FF7 was an immense success that opened RPGs to the masses, not only Japanese fans... The die hard fans will always bitch about them selling out and making FF games all about FMV, but really, from a purely financial point of view, opening FF games to the american and especially european markets was a very good decision. And (sadly?) it could only happen by making FF very pretty with lots of shiny FMV sequences.

All the door slamming, bitch slapping stories are just details.

Well, that's all good , but what do you mean 'opening FF games' to Americans and Europeans? I know I had quite the awesome time playing Final Fantasy 1, 2, and 3 (6) on the NES and SuperNES, respectively. 8)

I guess you mean, in making them super-appealing to those audiences? I know I love those FMV sequences myself.

And c'mon, you love Japanese business drama, don't act like you don't.

 

[London Geezer]

FF games before 7 were for people who had played RPGs and FF games for years.
FF7 came out with its flashing, gorgeous (for the time) FMV sequences, it was advertised with those sequences (not ingame footage) on TVs and stuff, and EVERYONE got interested.
See what i mean?

 

[Phil]

london-boy:

^^ of course, I'm not arguing that they couldn't have gone to Sega. My point is, there was a reason to move from Nintendo onto a different console (the PlayStation as it turned out) as there were reasons at the time. A risk by all means, but not uncommon in todays business in a competitive market.

Considering that there were reasons that resultet the move onto the Sony platform, I'm questioning the chances of such a move taking place again given the current situation of that both other options (MS, Nintendo) are very distant in market penetration, something that won't change over night.

So, DeanoC, if you wish to continue with sarcastic comments, please be my guest and enlighten what reasons are/would support(ing) another move of the 5+ million franchise. Current market situation and common sense make it hard for me to think otherwise for the time being.

 

[London Geezer]

Agreed, there was a good reason then and there might be a good reason next gen.
Personally, seeing how next gen architectures will be somewhat similar (everything considered), and considering the efforts put into providing good tools and libraries from the beginning (XNA and Sony's whatever) i wouldn't be surprised if Square just goes multiplatform. Which they already are anyway.

 

[Carl B]

FF games before 7 were for people who had played RPGs and FF games for years.
FF7 came out with its flashing, gorgeous (for the time) FMV sequences, it was advertised with those sequences (not ingame footage) on TVs and stuff, and EVERYONE got interested.
See what i mean?

Japanese business drama. You love it. 8)

 

[PC-Engine]

MS and Nintendo came to the party 18 months later than PS2. PS3 will be wedged between Xenon and Revolution. Revolution will be BC with GCN. Next generation everything starts from ground zero. Halo 2 sold how many software units? If you think Square/Enix will stay exclusive not to mention even being a factor considering the above then I think you're delusional too.

Keep hanging on to that bigger PS2 installed based as if it will have any significant impact next gen.

 

[Phil]

london-boy

Agreed, there was a good reason then and there might be a good reason next gen.

There always *might* be a reason, but the person I replied to originally certainly didn't name any sain ones.

A quote that I missed btw:

if MS magically starts selling Xbox2s like hotcakes

Very doubtful given their image in Japan and how big the RPG/Final Fantasy userbase is there. Unless they can sell an incredible amount of Xbox2s there, don't even think about it.... which brings me to one point:

Is it realistic to expect the above? If anyone wants to counter argue like that, why not bring up earthquakes into the equation? Or terrorists attack against Square employees or something along those lines? If if if if.... can't we keep this discussion at least somewhat based around realistic situations?

Realistically speaking, it will take something huge for the PlayStation brand to not dominate next generation simply on the grounds of its massive mass market appeal and brand-recognition. Inspite of this very fact that can't be overlooked and the fact the Final Fantasy brand has extended into a multi million franchise, what realistic arguments are there supporting a move?

Sure, if Xbox2 starts selling like hotcakes.... but for the time being, Xbox1 is far from selling like hotcakes so on what basis do you think it will start selling like that next generation (and that hot hot hot that it would be attractive to move your franchise). Of course, you can replace Xbox in that above paragraph with Nintendo - same reasons of course.

 

[pahcman]

how about SE goes multiplatform?

that will please everyone right

 

[Phil]

[Edit] actually, PC-Engine, you're nothing but a waste to my time.

 

[one]

An interesting GDC anecdote from an entry in the blog of Turumi 600 (producer of Michael Jackson's Moonwalker at SEGA and R&C at SCEI) -

* He met Kaz Hirai, president of SCEA at the rest room. Hirai was at GDC to hear Iwata's keynote speech. Tsurumi asked him if he went to J. Allard's speech yesterday and Hirai answered no as he'd get into a trouble if he went there (Tsurumi asks himself how it's OK if it's Nintendo's speech )

* In another entry, he talks about Samsung HDTV as a prize at Microsoft keynote speech. Apparently Hiroshige Goto of Impress who often delivers interesting technical articles I quote here at b3d forum often got one for him. Even SOCOM producers of SCEA, Luisi brothers, and SCEI CTO Masa Chatani could got them

 

[London Geezer]

Easy tiger,
the only thing i can think of right now is time, if Xbox2 has a significant lead over PS3 (12 months+) , i can see many "Sony friendly" publishers willing to release their starters on Xbox2 while they wait to release something on PS3.

 

[London Geezer]

No need to get confrontational guys, we're having a very good civil discussion. For once.

 

[PC-Engine]

The sales potential of Xenon, PS3, Revolution at launch will obviously depend a lot on the launch line up. You're basically arguing that despite PS3 launching between Xenon and Revolution with unkown launch titles, it will sell at the same ratios as the PS2 is selling relative to Xbox and GCN?

How does Square fit into all of this? Will Square have a PS3 launch title? Will anyone outside of Japan really care about FF? Seems to me the MAJOR reason why games on PS2 sell fairly well is due to the fact it has a nice lead in installed base. This lead allowed a bigger game library and a bigger game library sustains hardware sales. This has been argued forever already. Why some individuals keep hanging on to bigger installed base as some kind of advantage nextgen is baffling...

[Edit] actually, PC-Engine, you're nothing but a waste to my time.

Nah, I just think you don't have valid rebuttal like always...

 

[pahcman]

stranger things happen, SNES + NES is what 100m sold? i can call that massive mass market appeal and brand recognition no. (and that before what ps generation want to so term "console becomes mainstream")

hell GBA + GB is what 200m already? that mean psp need a earth quake to get major sales games?

so realistcally look forward, userbase Xenon - 0 Revo - 0 ps3 - 0

but multi platform is the bet i call

 

[DeanoC]

(DeanoC - my reply is a page back incase you miss it)

Yes I seen it and it completely besides the point, you stated that Square would be foolish to jump ship to the non-leading vendor. [EDIT] Removed, I was being a bit of an arse, sorry Phil[/EDIT]

Square were very clever, they saw what was important and went with it. I wouldn't insult Squares intelligence to do the same if they saw it as the right move.

Believing there is much loyalty in Square to Sony (besides the ownership issues now...) is a dream.

 

[Carl B]

Everything else aside, I think it's more than likely that Square more or less keeps their flagship games on Playstation. The Japanese installed base is the only one that really matters, since the way JRPG's normally work is they get released in Japan, and if they do well there, THEN they go to the US and elsewhere. Though granted, Square more than other RPG-centric companies knows they will be shipping certain titles overseas anyways. (FF and Kingdom Hearts come to mind)

I really feel though that the Japan installed base is the most important in determining if a console gets JRPG support or not.

And a little off-topic, but if anyone would be able to utilize the capacity of a blu-ray disk, it'll be Square.