Nintendo's next gen strategy for home & mobile

[Megadrive1988]

http://www.videogamer.com/news/nintendo_discusses_its_next-gen_strategy_beyond_wii_u_and_3ds.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html


With Nintendo doing R&D on similar architectures for their future console and handheld, I'm wondering if that will mean a change of vendor for the next console's graphics, or if Nintendo will stick with AMD.

Nintendo has been working with some of the same people on console graphics for just over 20 years now, starting with the partnership with Silicon Graphics for Project Reality in fall of 1993.

SGI (Nintendo 64) ----> ArtX (GameCube) ----> ATI (Wii) ----> AMD (Wii U)

 

[Grall]

I think Ninty aiming for common platform is not very new news actually, they've been talking about this loosely for quite some time IIRC.

The real news will be, how soon exactly can we expect to see this new platform...? "Fairly", would be my guess, seeing how the wuu is doing.

 

[RudeCurve]

I would definitely buy a Nintendo console again if they offered comparable hardware performance to SONY and MS. I owned a GCN before and was very disappointed with the Wii being a GC 1.5 and not having games run at 720P and no HDMI output. I did really liked the industrial design and the nunchuk controller.

 

[Rodéric]

What for ?
You don't need amazing hardware to make great games, look at the 3DS...

Sure better hardware open some new possibilities, but not that many, I prefer a better control scheme.
I'm a little tired of the carbon copy but "better gfx" games...

Aslo want more casual games, I don't have more than 20/30 minutes to put into a game at once, so I'd prefer to have games offering that king of gameplay, but that's for Nintendo software dept.

 

[Grall]

Problem with most casual games is that you don't get much actual gameplay from them. A game like pacman (or plants vs zombies if you prefer something from this millennium) can be played for 20-30 minutes sure, but what have you accomplished afterwards? Nothing.

These types of games offer very limited fun, with little in the way of lasting ability.

Any console game could be casual-friendly, were it not for the console industry's insistence on checkpoint saving schemes. A game like skyrim - seemingly almost as far from casual as you can get - you can save and quit anywhere and anytime even right in the middle of a boss fight (although that's perhaps not recommended), then pick up right where you left off, versus say a god of war or an uncharted you'd potentially have to play through the same level again for quite a bit.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Aslo want more casual games, I don't have more than 20/30 minutes to put into a game at once, so I'd prefer to have games offering that king of gameplay, but that's for Nintendo software dept.

No one needs/wants a console for that anymore.

And thank goodness for Nintendo to understand right from the start that the 3DS couldn't be championed by Brain Training and Nintendogs. Otherwise they would really be in trouble right now.




As for the future of their hardware, it looks like they will at least use the same CPU and GPU architecture between portable and home console?
I guess this means PowerPC is out of question. Most likely they will use ARM CPUs from now on.

 

[Megadrive1988]

As for the future of their hardware, it looks like they will at least use the same CPU and GPU architecture between portable and home console?
I guess this means PowerPC is out of question. Most likely they will use ARM CPUs from now on.

Iwata indicted although the next portable and next console would use the same architecture, they would not have the same performance.

So, perhaps, a small low performance, super power efficient APU for the portable, and a faster clocked APU with more shaders / ALUs for the home console?

I suppose we might slowly learn a tiny bit of info from the inevitable leaks over the next few years as development of these two platforms continue. It sure won't be much, though. Nintendo ninjas and all.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Nintendo will only keep it a secret if the new consoles are worse (theoretical) performers than the competition. Otherwise they will brag about it as they should.

It's standard business practice nowadays. Microsoft tried to do the same with the xbone.

 

[McHuj]

I think a good portion of the decision will be based on nintendos vision for third party support. If they was to entertain the possibility of third parties ports of X1 and PS4 games, I think they need to go with an x86 APU, a Kaveri derivative would probably be good enough for ports. I don't think x86 will be a viable solution for their next handheld so if they want to leverage across both platform, I don't think this x86 is the best route.

If I were Nintendo, I'd go with the same mobile SOC architecture for the next handheld and home consoles. I would say a dual core 64-bit ARM @ 800 MHz with 50 gigaflop GPU driving a 720p display would good. And for the home console a quad core ARM @ 1.2 GHz with a ~400 gigaflop GPU and 4 GB of RAM.

The most improtant for both Nintendo's devices will be price point. I think the handheld needs to be under 199 and the home console under $249. If they can hit those prices, it think they will sell enough and be profitable.

 

[BRiT]

My expectations from Nintendo take into account their history. I expect a Tegra 2 level of performance for their portable and a Tegra 3 level of performance for their nonportable console. Why would they suddenly stop their current pattern of woefully under delivering on the hardware front? They tend to target hardware performance from at least 5 years ago. Those thinking it will be anything more advanced are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why would they suddenly stop their current pattern of woefully under delivering on the hardware front?

Because their current pattern doesn't seem viable as a business, and if they don't change they are setting themselves up for disaster.

 

[BRiT]

Because their current pattern doesn't seem viable as a business, and if they don't change they are setting themselves up for disaster.

I completely agree with that, but do you think the Nintendo executives believe that? After all, they have the highest selling portable game system, the 3DS.

 

[tuna]

Problem with most casual games is that you don't get much actual gameplay from them. A game like pacman (or plants vs zombies if you prefer something from this millennium) can be played for 20-30 minutes sure, but what have you accomplished afterwards? Nothing.

What do you want to "accomplish" exactly?

 

[Sonic]

I completely agree with that, but do you think the Nintendo executives believe that? After all, they have the highest selling portable game system, the 3DS.

And the lowest selling console. Their current management has got to be kicking themselves in the ass right now for the mismanagement of Wii U. If they can't learn from their mistakes they may be better off not releasing a new system and just sticking to portable where they kick ass in. There's little point in releasing a new system that's weaker than the competition (as they should learn by now) and that a more powerful console is the way to go. Why not innovate and have bragging rights at the same time? Hopefully the new system will use the portable machine as the tablet controller and the home console has oomph to it to bring Nintendo in the new generation.

Since they want the same architecture for both handheld and home then that puts a limit onto what they're able to do. As others have said that pretty much sticks them with ARM. I would very much like to see ARM + PowerVR in their next handheld and so want to see a console part from Imagination.

I'm not sure if it's possible they'd be able to make the Wii U as a SoC with low enough power usage for a portable. That would allow them to stick with IBM for CPU and AMD for graphics and allow backwards compatiblity.

But since ARM is the most likely...

Portable:

Quad Core ARM at 1 - 1.5 Ghz
Whatever Rogue configuration that exceeds Vita level performance
2 GB of RAM

Home:

8 or 16 core ARM at 2+ Ghz
Whatever Rogue configuration that exceeds PS4 level performance (minimal double the performance if released in 2016)
8 GB of RAM
HSA I imagine would be a possibility if this imaginary machine is an APU since Imagination is part of it.

 

[dobwal]

Nintendo's problem isn't hardware performance. You can overcome that with a cheaper price.

Nintendo's biggest problem is that porting over to the Wii U isn't all that attractive to developers. That could be remedied by simply adopting PC hardware across the board and making porting as simple as possible.

If the Wii U's third party library was no different than what you found in the PC space and Nintendo's first party developer was able to get back on track, then its possible for Nintendo to maintain a niche but profitable state in the console market. You can even say that a lot of the quirky independent titles we see in the PC space would fit quite nicely into a library of any Nintendo console.

Also, Nintendo could do something like pair a cheap AMD apu with a Snap Dragon processor and allow its console to support typical wares found in the PC and mobile space.

 

[RudeCurve]

Since Imagination Technologies owns MIPS now maybe Nintendo could go back to using a MIPS CPU....

A monster multicore TBDR console from Nintendo would be a true Megaton announcement. They could also get a discount by using both PowerVR and MIPS.:smile:

 

[arijoytunir]

with nvidia bringing kepler into mobile soc next year with i guess will be powerful than x360/ps3 , how much powerful will the mobile gpu will be in 2015-16 time span?
will it be as powerful as a xbox one's 1.3 tf gpu?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No. Not in a mobile device anyhow. Plugged in and clocked high, perhaps.

 

[Cyan]

And the lowest selling console. Their current management has got to be kicking themselves in the ass right now for the mismanagement of Wii U. If they can't learn from their mistakes they may be better off not releasing a new system and just sticking to portable where they kick ass in. There's little point in releasing a new system that's weaker than the competition (as they should learn by now) and that a more powerful console is the way to go. Why not innovate and have bragging rights at the same time? Hopefully the new system will use the portable machine as the tablet controller and the home console has oomph to it to bring Nintendo in the new generation.

Since they want the same architecture for both handheld and home then that puts a limit onto what they're able to do. As others have said that pretty much sticks them with ARM. I would very much like to see ARM + PowerVR in their next handheld and so want to see a console part from Imagination.

I'm not sure if it's possible they'd be able to make the Wii U as a SoC with low enough power usage for a portable. That would allow them to stick with IBM for CPU and AMD for graphics and allow backwards compatiblity.

But since ARM is the most likely...

Portable:

Quad Core ARM at 1 - 1.5 Ghz
Whatever Rogue configuration that exceeds Vita level performance
2 GB of RAM

Home:

8 or 16 core ARM at 2+ Ghz
Whatever Rogue configuration that exceeds PS4 level performance (minimal double the performance if released in 2016)
8 GB of RAM
HSA I imagine would be a possibility if this imaginary machine is an APU since Imagination is part of it.

That sounds good, although I think that Nintendo should be patient enough to wait til 2015 at least to release a competitive hardware at a good price, and they could be onto another winner. That and a better support for 3rd party publishers, giving Iwata the final pensionable pay.

 

[wco81]

Is 4K going to be required for a next gen console?