Engaget: 360 v2 'Zephyr' - HDMI, 65nm?, 120gb HDD (picture)

[JeffK]

I do not understand why current xbox 360 owners would feel ripped off in any way. By the time I actually care about HDMI (or anyone else) it will probably be at least a year (probably 2). By that time I imagine that between xbox360 system, controllers, wifi, video cam, live, creators club, hddvd, movies and games I will have spent $5,000+ easily (not including the hdtv + receiver/speakers). In fact, I already purchased most of these since I bought the console in november and have easily spent $1500 so far. If I am really compelled to get the new system, the < $300 its going to cost at that point will be insignificant, especially considering that I could sell the current unit, or just give it to my young siblings and make someone happy. The system itself is of little value without all of the extra money you invest into it Despite the 360 console itself being at the core of the investment hardware-wise, cost-wise its just a small fraction. As long as it is the customers choice to make the upgrade (future games & accessories are 100% compatible with the old console) then who really cares.

 

[Platon]

It was just a question... I know you did not claim it, I was just wondering in addition to your question.

Upscaling is indeed possible with component. You can get 1080p output for games. It's just that upscaling DVDs is illegal over component video but not for the VGA cable.

Any ideas if having a VGA cable for the 360 and then having a VGA to component adaptor could "fool" the TV/xbox and thereby get upscaled DVDs to work on the 360 through the component connection of the TV?

And why on earth is it ilegal to upscale DVDs through component?...

 

[AlNom]

Any ideas if having a VGA cable for the 360 and then having a VGA to component adaptor could "fool" the TV/xbox and thereby get upscaled DVDs to work on the 360 through the component connection of the TV?

Ah... it might?

And why on earth is it ilegal to upscale DVDs through component?...

archie explained it pretty much:

As far as AACS goes if ICT token is enabled you're restricted to 960x540 over component/D-Terminal and 480i over S-Video/Composite. Currently nobody is planning on using it and supposedly there's a gentlemen's agreement not to use it 'till at least 2008 (although Warner is the most likely to use it either before or after).

Beyond that (no pun inteded) there's the DOT token which when enabled prevents any analog output. Currently the exisiting AACS license agreements don't allow for DOT to be enabled although any AACS device (BD players, HD-DVD players) still need to support DOT.

Beyond that, there are analog sunset provisions that by 12/31/2010 new devices will limit all analog output to 480i, and existing devices limit analog output to 480i by 21/31/2011. By 12/31/2013 no analog output would be permitted.

AACS isn't allowing it for analog signals a.k.a. component video.

 

[Supernatural]

Furthermore, some hi-res pics and a video of the HDMI equipped Xbox 360.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=577032

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

Furthermore, some hi-res pics and a video of the HDMI equipped Xbox 360.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=577032

omg, the second I saw that video, it was like

Now those people screaming "photoshopped" can stick it

 

[Rangers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcACuy4x8nA

Some good music in the vid.

These guys think all three items are seperate, that's how I like it..

Note: we can't tell/confirm you if the HDMI port, 65nm CPU and larger (120gb) HD are linked to each other. They might or might not be released together. The 65nm CPU is coming anyway for all Xbox models (confirmed by MS and Chartered long time ago + delay news). And it's also pretty obvious (with current demand and video marketplace) that MS will release a larger HD sooner or later, this requires no change to the motherboard.

 

[infinity4]

so because of this would microsoft be able cut prices for 360 consoles??? they need to sometime in the future definitely in a year

 

[Joe DeFuria]

omg, the second I saw that video, it was like

Now those people screaming "photoshopped" can stick it

Just to be clear, the HDMI port is apparently currently on dev kits. Not on any production models.

While I do assume it will appear on retail models at some point, there is no indication of how soon.

 

[Platon]

While I do assume it will appear on retail models at some point, there is no indication of how soon.

Since they have them on Dev kits they will have to come to retail as well, I guess it depends on how fast they can update all their manufacturing lines and I guess sell old stock...

 

[AzBat]

Furthermore, some hi-res pics and a video of the HDMI equipped Xbox 360.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=577032

Great find SuperNatural! Xbox-Scene is one my fav sites. I loved how they not only confirmed the HDMI port but also published news and photos(hi-res at that) of the new HANA chip. That news seems more like the nail in the coffin for the HDMI cable than anything else we've seen so far. I mean, why make a whole new scaler chip if the current one was capable?

Anyway, time to catch up on that Xbox-Scene thread. It's already 10 pages long.

Tommy McClain

 

[Dave Baumann]

Great find SuperNatural! Xbox-Scene is one my fav sites. I loved how they not only confirmed the HDMI port but also published news and photos(hi-res at that) of the new HANA chip. That news seems more like the nail in the coffin for the HDMI cable than anything else we've seen so far. I mean, why make a whole new scaler chip if the current one was capable?

Although we can't see the entire motherboard, I can't see another HDMI transmitter chip in there - it looks to me like Ana/HANA are both the scalers and output chips (i.e. it contains the DAC and monitor/CE device timing modes). In the case of HANA it looks like rather than tacking on a 3rd party HDMI chip they have integrated the HDMI transmitter into the Ana functionality and its doing the lot. It'll be interesting to see if there is indeed more chips on that motherboard or thats it and HANA now has an HDMI TMDS [and HDCP] in there as well.

As far as Ana goes, what critical, and still isn't answered, is whether it has a DVO in order to output a post scaled digital stream.

 

[Tap In]

As far as Ana goes, what critical, and still isn't answered, is whether it has a DVO in order to output a post scaled digital stream.

yes.... it will be interesting to see.

I think MS really thought this through from the design stages and have planned through the next few years so that would not surprise me.

 

[A176]

ANA, the analog scaler ... ?

and her digital sister, HANA? :smile:

 

[sumdumyunguy]

Although we can't see the entire motherboard, I can't see another HDMI transmitter chip in there - it looks to me like Ana/HANA are both the scalers and output chips (i.e. it contains the DAC and monitor/CE device timing modes). In the case of HANA it looks like rather than tacking on a 3rd party HDMI chip they have integrated the HDMI transmitter into the Ana functionality and its doing the lot. It'll be interesting to see if there is indeed more chips on that motherboard or thats it and HANA now has an HDMI TMDS [and HDCP] in there as well.

As far as Ana goes, what critical, and still isn't answered, is whether it has a DVO in order to output a post scaled digital stream.

Dave, is that "legal? I thought I read somewhere that Silicon Image said that every HDMI interface that is also HDCP compliant could not be "embedded" within some other device. From what I have read, this is also the reason why a HDMI cable could not be released for the current XBOX 360.

 

[infinity4]

so if microsoft will use hdmi surely it is HDMI 1.3a they will use wouldnt they (i dont know how much effect versions of HDMI will have on playing games and movies in ordinary homes)???

and what are the chances that floating videos are fake??? i mean is it that easy to make another output for anyone who is not involved in constructing motherboard for Xbox 360???

 

[Dave Baumann]

Dave, is that "legal? I thought I read somewhere that Silicon Image said that every HDMI interface that is also HDCP compliant could not be "embedded" within some other device. From what I have read, this is also the reason why a HDMI cable could not be released for the current XBOX 360.

Yes, it can be embedded in any device, all you need is an area where you can burn the HDCP keys into the device.

 

[sumdumyunguy]

Yes, it can be embedded in any device, all you need is an area where you can burn the HDCP keys into the device.

Ok, thanks.

 

[assen]

so if microsoft will use hdmi surely it is HDMI 1.3a they will use wouldnt they (i dont know how much effect versions of HDMI will have on playing games and movies in ordinary homes)???

and what are the chances that floating videos are fake??? i mean is it that easy to make another output for anyone who is not involved in constructing motherboard for Xbox 360???

They are not fake, but they show a devkit, so they mean less than you imagine seeing them at first. They don't show something that's ready, sitting in a warehouse somewhere, waiting to be shipped; they show concrete proof of the intentions and capability of MS someday to order for manufacturing and subsequently ship a HDMI model.

 

[one]

Wall Street Journal allegedly reporting 150,000 HD DVD kits sold which are all people that bought it specifically for a movie player and will buy HD DVD movies.

Now that we see the rumor of HDMI-equipped XBOX 360, will those 150,000 people feel screwed to have bought the add-on?

 

[inefficient]

About 695,000 consumers own either a Blu-ray or an HD-DVD player, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif. But only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 consumers have Blu-ray because they bought a Sony PS3 game console. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 game consoles, Mr. Adams says. He adds that those numbers are well in excess of the 300,000 DVD-player sales in 1997, when that technology rolled out.

I guess they are just analysts numbers. But still interesting since we almost never get to see stand alone player numbers. Only 120k stand alone HD-DVD players and 25k BR players is shockingly low!

Is that just in the US or everywhere?