Engadget: Some interesting facts about the PS3

[cthellis42]

Yes because it won't work. There are multiple DVI types, DVI-D (Digitial), DVI-A (Analog) and DVI-I (Digitial and Analog) most PC cards output use DVI-I which is why you can add a DVI->VGA adaptor and its works. HDMI is digital only, so at least the reasonable priced HDMI->DVI cables are actualy HDMI->DVI-D and so a DVI-A/DVI-I->VGA adaptor won't work. A HDMI->VGA adaptor is actually a digital to analog convertor box and are not cheap.

Somewhat more expensive, yes, but not out of the price of reason. (Monoprice has a cable with a built-in equalizer for $75, or--better--you get a switchbox with a built-in equalizer [if that works] for about the same. You'll be needing one anyway, because most TV's with built-in HDMI only have one port in general anyway, and what with devices not yet really using HDMI passthrough... Or one built into a PC-based switchbox, if you're planning on using your monitor for a number of devices.)

Or you can use any of the currently existing A/V Multi-Out to VGA methods that have existed for the PS2.

There is also an issue of resolution and timings...

True, but to my knowledge not different from, say, the 360--where the main TV resolutions are supported specifically, and anything else has scaling involved, imperfect representation or "you deal with it" effects until there's a firmware upgrade. This is why I wanted to know if that bullet point meant anything more than "no official hardware cable at launch."

It would be nice if the console manufacturers realize that there will be a LOT of people planning on sticking their HD console next to their PC (like moi!) or repurpose an older PC monitor to avoid the hassle of buying an HDTV and support--at the very least--common PC resolutions as well as common TV resolutions, as doing so would not (to my mind, at least) seem to be particularly burdensome. (Just potentially more confusing for the end user.)

Of course along those lines, any monitor you'd really WANT to use for that right now is probably itself digital, so no fuss is needed other than the one cheap cable. (Certainly it'd be an easy, cheap and desirable upgrade if your PC monitor is NOT digital right now.)

 

[Acert93]

I think it always has been 7 controllers in one room but that doesnt mean good bye lan parties. Only games I can think of using 7 controllers on one screen would be party games and sports games. Dunno about you, but playing a FPS with 7 different boxes on the screen doesnt sound like fun.

It could mean bye-bye to large LAN parties though. e.g. I have been to a couple Halo parties where there were 4 Xbox systems and 16 people playing (4 way split screen). If it was 7 in a room versus 7 to a box, this means the biggest LAN you could have would be 7 peeps without some serious work arounds.

That said, could you not just attach the controllers in non-wireless mode? Problem solved?

 

[Acert93]

Solution: 3rd party Component to VGA adapter. Downside, it is £47.99.

Which makes sense; I use my GCN on my 21" CRT via a modded component cable that has a Dsub connection. So I don't see why a PS3 component cable couldn't either be modded or why a device like the above would not work.

 

[Titanio]

They've been demoing PS3s in close quarters to one another for some time now, and I believe I recall that mention was made that Sony had spent some time ensuring that multiple networks of controllers could operate within reasonable distance of each other. I guess the technical question is how many piconets under the profile used by PS3 for its controllers can operate in a given range.

Can AV multi out not carry a VGA signal? It's the same connector for the PS2, which had a VGA cable later in it's life cycle for linux.

It can, and it's always possible it could be provided later. But the question is how much demand there is in the wider scheme of things.

 

[Bad_Boy]

It could mean bye-bye to large LAN parties though. e.g. I have been to a couple Halo parties where there were 4 Xbox systems and 16 people playing (4 way split screen). If it was 7 in a room versus 7 to a box, this means the biggest LAN you could have would be 7 peeps without some serious work arounds.

That said, could you not just attach the controllers in non-wireless mode? Problem solved?

Not sure I understand you. I dont think the the 7 controllers puts any limits on a lan. Can you tell me which console FPS supports 7 controllers on one tv? You could still have your 4 controllers per box/tv and have several tv's lined up. Infact, I'm interested in how Resistance will handle lans with 40 man lan servers.

7 controllers does not mean 7 controllers per room, but 7 controllers max per box. Take the large e3/TGS events for example. Dozens of controllers working fine with multiple consoles turned on.

 

[DeanA]

HDMI > DVI adaptors are cheap [20-40$]..

But unless your display device supports DVI-D with HDCP (and not so many do), then you're straight outta luck, as PS3 HDMI has HDCP enabled(*)

Dean

(*) And before anyone says about that HDCP On/Off menu item that's on the devkits.. that ain't for the retail kit.

 

[Arctic Permafrost]

Another mistake of Sony, they are wrong about so many things. This just happens to be another mistake of theirs. I've almost lost sight of the many times they were wrong and the bad things they've done.

VGA is (perhaps) better than HDMI, and better than component. Mark Rein recommends VGA over component:

http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24643246&postcount=11

This is very good point. The Xbox360 VGA cable produces a very nice quality picture. When we're at trade shows we try to get Microsoft to use the VGA cables with those Samsung LCD monitors they use.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/triki1/destroyeduglyrz1.jpg

 

[Tim Murray]

VGA is (perhaps) better than HDMI, and better than component. Mark Rein recommends VGA over component:

Wrong. He's saying VGA is better than component because the output will be at the native resolution. He makes no claims about HDMI, and since HDMI is DVI inside a wrapper, HDMI is superior (as an interface) to VGA. Be careful about such claims that you are only making to back up whatever company you like more. I don't appreciate that.

 

[Titanio]

Another mistake of Sony, they are wrong about so many things. This just happens to be another mistake of theirs. I've almost lost sight of the many times they were wrong and the bad things they've done.

VGA is (perhaps) better than HDMI, and better than component. Mark Rein recommends VGA over component:

http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24643246&postcount=11

And if HDMI was available I'm sure he'd be recommending that first and foremost - which it is on PS3.

VGA is a very very niche connection option for most people with consoles. The vast vast majority will plug their PS3s into TVs that don't have VGA. Over its lifetime, many more will use HDMI - for example - on their PS3 than would use VGA otherwise. For those connecting to computer monitors there are alternatives - be it DVI or a converter as outlined above.

In other words, as much as it may irk some individuals, in the bigger picture this is very insignificant. I sympathise with those whom it affects, of course, but this isn't exactly surprising or a big issue.

 

[DeanA]

VGA is (perhaps) better than HDMI

As 360 doesn't have HDMI, Mark Rein's comments that VGA is good are fine - for that platform. But taking that quote and extrapolating a comparison against HDMI is going a bit far (even though you did say 'perhaps').

Dean

 

[Arctic Permafrost]

Wrong. He's saying VGA is better than component because the output will be at the native resolution. He makes no claims about HDMI, and since HDMI is DVI inside a wrapper, HDMI is superior (as an interface) to VGA. Be careful about such claims that you are only making to back up whatever company you like more. I don't appreciate that.

Well, I like this site -a lot, believe me-, so when moderators banned me last time, even some days ago the ban hadn't sunk in yet. I was quite lost with the terminology and standards here.

I am nobody here, maybe not the most intelligent person ever, but now I know very well what I should post and what I shouldn't.

I know this site enforces "political correctness" between the users. That's fine for me, because, believable or unbelievable, I am a sensible human being too.

When someone lies about X360 making up arguments from nothingness, thus every XTS owner is wrong and guilty of having bought such a bad console, because it's broken and CoD2, for example, doesn't run at 60 fps, FSAAx4 is inexistant, etc etc, he is indirectly insulting and calling me an idiot and I can't stand it.

I don't like Sony, I must admit my theories causes gossip, but I do actually try to find arguments and evidence to back up my claims.

Maybe I raised my hopes and expected too much.., now that I am back in reality I am not bitter and I am not angry but quite dissapointed. Perhaps one day I will tell people here about why I hate Sony with a passion, if, hopefully, I don't get banned forever.

 

[Arctic Permafrost]

And if HDMI was available I'm sure he'd be recommending that first and foremost - which it is on PS3.

VGA is a very very niche connection option for most people with consoles. The vast vast majority will plug their PS3s into TVs that don't have VGA. Over its lifetime, many more will use HDMI - for example - on their PS3 than would use VGA otherwise. For those connecting to computer monitors there are alternatives - be it DVI or a converter as outlined above.

In other words, as much as it may irk some individuals, in the bigger picture this is very insignificant. I sympathise with those whom it affects, of course, but this isn't exactly surprising or a big issue.

Yes, I sympathise with them either. Sony could just mass-produce VGA cables and put the damn thing on sale for their fans, what's the problem with that? The more options the merrier.

 

[Arctic Permafrost]

As 360 doesn't have HDMI, Mark Rein's comments that VGA is good are fine - for that platform. But taking that quote and extrapolating a comparison against HDMI is going a bit far (even though you did say 'perhaps').

Dean

You know, imo, HDMI is not there to improve the PS3, it's just there because Sony wants to create a new optical disc standard. In fact, they don't care about their fans but themselves since the PS3 could be better and more refined if Blu-ray was not cluttered with mostly uninteresting features from a TRUE console's perspective.

 

[Geo]

When someone lies about X360 making up arguments from nothingness, thus every XTS owner is wrong and guilty of having bought such a bad console, because it's broken and CoD2, for example, doesn't run at 60 fps, FSAAx4 is inexistant, etc etc, he is indirectly insulting and calling me an idiot and I can't stand it.

I don't mean this in an unkindly way, but if you can't get past that, your time here will be limited. And I don't mean that for just you and your X360. . . I mean that for anyone who thinks that criticism of their console (or GPU in the other forums) equates to calling them an idiot.

As such, we'd prefer you go away on your own, rather than commit suicide by mod further down the road.

 

[Arwin]

That said, could you not just attach the controllers in non-wireless mode? Problem solved?

Of course. And it's not like we haven't seen lots of PS3s next to each other playing games at the same time on several different trade shows ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Of course.

Do we know that for sure. I have an idea that the USB capable only provides power, and when ocnnected by USB the controller still uses wireless. I think that was said somewhere anyhow, but don't know where.

 

[Bobbler]

Do we know that for sure. I have an idea that the USB capable only provides power, and when ocnnected by USB the controller still uses wireless. I think that was said somewhere anyhow, but don't know where.

I have a feeling the PS3 controllers are always in wireless mode (easy corner to cut by not needing it to switch between modes when its plugged it).

Is there a bluetooth limitation that only allows 8 (7 + reciever) bluetooth devices in a room (or within a certain range of each other)? If there isn't then I see no reason to believe there would be any LAN party issues with having multiple PS3's in the same room.

 

[PeterT]

I have an idea that the USB capable only provides power, and when ocnnected by USB the controller still uses wireless.

For what it's worth, I was under a similar impression. But I can't find any corroboration either, so I guess we'll only know once it ships. (Hey it's just 5 days in Japan now, can you believe it? )

 

[Bad_Boy]

I have a feeling the PS3 controllers are always in wireless mode (easy corner to cut by not needing it to switch between modes when its plugged it).

I'm pretty sure it is, but I can't for the life of me find the source of where I read it.

Is there a bluetooth limitation that only allows 8 (7 + reciever) bluetooth devices in a room (or within a certain range of each other)? If there isn't then I see no reason to believe there would be any LAN party issues with having multiple PS3's in the same room.

AFAIK there is no limitation. Controllers are locked to the ps3 just as bluetooth headsets are locked to cell phones when sync'ed up. I see no reason why you could have multiple ps3's all running 7 controllers each. In the case for an FPS lan, 4 controllers per PS3 would probably be optimal (don't think theres any FPS games that support more than 4 controllers).

Anyways, kinda OT but regarding bluetooth and the ps3; During gamers day it was noted by IGN (I think, maybe gamespot) that the ps3 in the demonstration picked up several bluetooth devices in the audience such as PDA's and bluetooth headsets. I'm kinda interested if a PDA could provide some interesting uses maybe after some homebrew via linux. Maybe as a remote or a way to communicate to another ps3 (for files maybe, reading messages, etc.).

 

[PeterT]

I found something at Wikipedia. Not the most trustworthy of sources, but...

The controller can operate wirelessly over Bluetooth. It also features a USB mini-B port, which can be used to connect a USB cable for internal battery charging and wired operation, although the battery itself cannot be replaced. The controller can be seamlessly swapped from wireless to wired operation, and can be charged automatically upon connection.