Driver and DLL juggling *spawn*

[dskneo]

That's exactly what I call "driver OCD". There are so many dubious claims there that I won't even start dissecting them, and that's just three driver versions being compared.
Let me just tell you that a driver from 2019 tested on a 2080Ti is not a "newer driver" on "older GPUS".


I'm positive that everyone can read my posts without you constantly screenshotting them and inserting into your own.
That stance remains. Because, as it says, "no benchmark in existence have ever proven this to be the case".
And I'm saying this because I was looking into this myself - until I got bored because there were nothing to find there.

Edit: added more links since I was searching for them anyway.

Unacceptable response at every level. You accused a fellow member of lying.

These are your posts:

And here are examples spanning 2 years of driver releases (not even accounting for PASCAL which had dismal driver releases) proving that you are lying to the members of this forum.


https://www.reddit.com/user/RodroG/posts/


Has there been or not, multitude of cases of regression in performance and stability in new drivers? This is a yes or no question.

 

[DegustatoR]

Has there been or not, multitude of cases of regression in performance and stability in new drivers? This is a yes or no question.

I gave you about a dozen of benchmarks which clearly show that NO, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.
One of them is even from that reddit guy you're constantly referring to.
And Pascal of all things has perfect driver support. Kepler may be seen as being spotty these days, depending on what game you're running on it.

Have courage admitting that you are wrong instead of spamming the thread with screenshots of my posts from this same page and giving links which only further strengthen my point.

 

[dskneo]

There are literally 3 or 4 examples in that user database proving that there was regression in performance and stability in new driver releases.

Its there, written on paper.

you lied.

 

[Rootax]

I gave you about a dozen of benchmarks which clearly show that NO, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.
One of them is even from that reddit guy you're constantly referring to.
And Pascal of all things has perfect driver support. Kepler may be seen as being spotty these days, depending on what game you're running on it.

Have courage admitting that you are wrong instead of spamming the thread with screenshots of my posts from this same page and giving links which only further strengthen my point.

Degustator, if I may, he is doing the same BS with a lot of users recently, don't engage with him, imho

 

[dskneo]

Degustator, if I may, he is doing the same BS with a lot of users recently, don't engage with him, imho

Its with sorrow that I read something like this, as it is not true and I question how such an idea came to be.

I find DegustatoR actively lying across many topics since I started paying attention in the Resident Evil 8 topic. And I only engage when its lamentably obvious.

 

[DegustatoR]

Degustator, if I may, he is doing the same BS with a lot of users recently, don't engage with him, imho

There is nothing to engage with. No matter how many times he will proclaim that I'm lying it won't change the facts which I've presented.

 

[dskneo]

Its visible to anyone above, that you actively lied and rejected the presented evidence with semantics.

 

[dskneo]

In all seriousness, how many users are actually swapping drivers like that?

Its actually very common to update your driver if you intend to play a new game that had a gameready driver, and switch back to the version that works best with your machine or your favorite game.

 

[neckthrough]

Its actually very common to update your driver if you intend to play a new game that had a gameready driver, and switch back to the version that works best with your machine or your favorite game.

The first part is true. The second? I can only speak for myself but I haven't rolled back a driver since I started PC gaming and I have more gray hair than I would like. Since you claim that it is "very common" I assume you have conducted a large scale survey across a cross-section of PC gamers, and your data shows that a majority of gamers (60-70% of your sample set since you use "very common") engage in this practice. Please share this data with us.

 

[Davros]

Some are claiming updating steam and windows is a royal pain (in 2021!).

I uninstalled team fortress 2 (I didnt really play it) because I was fed up with it updating every single time I fired up steam to play a game

 

[PSman1700]

I uninstalled team fortress 2 (I didnt really play it) because I was fed up with it updating every single time I fired up steam to play a game

Which is more of a rareity then something usual though. Its been awhile since ive had TF2 installed (i think i played it 2007/2008 somewhere), but i can imagine something like TF2 has more fequent updates than say some singleplayer game.

 

[pjbliverpool]

If you mostly play AAA games then it's not likely to be something you run into as NV will generally ensure that things are correct in the latest AAA games and the most played AAA games.

Since I play a lot of AA and indie games which don't generally see attention by NV's driver teams, sometimes general fixes in the drivers for some game will negatively impact rendering in other games. since there isn't a per game driver profile for them.

Hell, this is the main reason I stopped upgrading to the newest drivers with each driver release. It was driving me absolutely batty in my most played games at the time (Warframe and GW2). In Warframe, for example, depending on the driver the player character would sometimes be translucent such that you'd see the world through the body. GW2 would have a similar rendering bug depending on driver version (not necessarily the same driver that would make Warframe render incorrectly) but would also sometimes introduce a different rendering bug (I've posted a screenshot years ago in one of these threads) where there would be blocks of "weird rendering" (I don't know how to describe it). At the time I had wondered if it was related to tiled rendering (it wasn't) on Pascal GPUs.

Anyway, when I'd upgrade to a newer driver, either rendering artifacts would go away or come back or new ones would be introduced. So I eventually just settled on drivers that worked well in those games and then I don't change the driver unless I need it for another game that I'd start to play.

And don't even get me started on bugs that different drivers introduce in Windows. They don't usually exhibit themselves until the PC has been used extensively. So that was fun finding a driver version that was both relatively bug free after extended use in Windows AND didn't have rendering artifacts in those 2 aforementioned games. And now, I just don't play a game if it shows artifacts since I don't have time to juggle drivers.

Hell, one driver was so bad that it would mess with my internet connection. Installing a different NV driver made that issue go away. Reinstalling that driver made the issue come back. Why that driver was messing with my internet connection? I have no idea why a GPU driver would need to even touch internet functionality. This was easily reproduced, so something with how that particular driver interfaced with Windows was doing some weird ass things.

That more than anything has me wanting to get a newer GPU. The hope is that maybe either a newer NV GPU wouldn't have so many driver problems or that AMD hasn't started having so many driver problems (I almost never ran into this with the Radeon R9 290, my last AMD GPU). But I don't know that I'd trust that they don't also have these issues now. Bleh.

Regards,
SB

I only have time to play the big budget games so I guess that's why I've never come across this (that I've noticed at least). I'm not overly concerned about the low single digit performance gains you might be able to get from certain driver versions so I tend to just upgrade when I can be bothered or perhaps if I'm starting a shiny new performance hog of a game just to eek out the last bit of performance that I may (or may not) get from the latest driver. Out of interest I've just checked and it seems I'm currently running 469.92. 471.11 is waiting for me in GeForce Experience to click install when I can get round to it!

 

[dskneo]

The first part is true. The second? I can only speak for myself but I haven't rolled back a driver since I started PC gaming and I have more gray hair than I would like. Since you claim that it is "very common" I assume you have conducted a large scale survey across a cross-section of PC gamers, and your data shows that a majority of gamers (60-70% of your sample set since you use "very common") engage in this practice. Please share this data with us.

Firstly I find it quite absurd that suddenly the requisite of certain people over here to accept the existence of a practice they never heard of, requires a large scale survey as evidence. I suspect its because of the heresy of the slightly negative connotation that nvidia can make bad driver releases once in a while.


As for commonality, its more common across the communities I frequent specially the ones with VR games, simulators, older competitive multiplayer games. And it doesn't stop at the drivers. Windows versions, steamvr versions. Everything counts.


Its common enough that I was aware of benchmarks being done between drivers versions for years, as i academically proved above in this thread. Pick any of the comparisons that were done and read the comments from actual users sentiment.

 

[Kyyla]

These people benchmarking drivers and recommending them with minuscule random differences between runs are idiots. Just disregard and use the latest driver.

 

[dskneo]

It's not very common at all. At all. This is some absurd nonsense you might see from some console gamers on resetera trying to pretend he knows something about gaming on computers and trying to make it sound like its some nasa engineering thing to play on pc and proping up his console of choice.

The site you are mentioning is this one:

https://babeltechreviews.com/geforce-471-11-driver-performance/

Quite literally, the only one who tests drivers. The only one. Its a thing for that particular guy i guess. Under no circumstance is this a common thing that everyone does. In fact, looking at those tests, all of them, the worst case scenario is that one game out of three dozen might have 3 extra frames with the previous driver than the new one. Something to the tune of 123 vs 126. In one game. Nearly every time the results are margin of error. Juggling drivers is common ... = ))

These people benchmarking drivers and recommending them with minuscule random differences between runs are idiots. Just disregard and use the latest driver.

This debate is why would some people juggle back and forth between driver versions. Its not a judgement of people. Its not up to you or anyone here to judge them as idiots for doing something particular to their situation. By calling them idiots you both are being one yourselves.


Your "minuscule and random differences" claim serves more as evidence of your low effort in this discussion, than the truthfulness of the claim. Differences at were times of 5~10% which are not minimal, as seen in examples I posted above.



Someone asked why would one juggle between drivers, and it was respectfully and academically answered. And not only by me.
Someone claimed there was not in existence one single example of performance regression between old and newer drivers, and it was respectfully and academically answered and proved.



Your inability to maturely accept new concepts, ideas, and evidence, is not my problem. Its yours. Its it does indeed reeks of resetera in there.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I uninstalled team fortress 2 (I didnt really play it) because I was fed up with it updating every single time I fired up steam to play a game

But how else were you going to get all those new hats?

 

[Dictator]

These people benchmarking drivers and recommending them with minuscule random differences between runs are idiots. Just disregard and use the latest driver.

A massive amen from me.

Use the latest driver.

 

[dskneo]

Agreeing with someone calling other people "idiots" is not far from being one himself, when the situation as been well documented above.

 

[PSman1700]

These people benchmarking drivers and recommending them with minuscule random differences between runs are idiots. Just disregard and use the latest driver.

Well said, the days of swapping or rolling back drivers for users not looking for some % of performance deltas is loooong gone. Heck even in 2003 i didnt bother all that much with drivers, had just the latest ATI drivers, never a problem then either. One could say the mid to late 90's could be called struggling perhaps.

 

[HLJ]

Its actually very common to update your driver if you intend to play a new game that had a gameready driver, and switch back to the version that works best with your machine or your favorite game.

Citation needed...