Does PSP take the shine off next year's Xbox 2 launch?

[jarrod]

I just don't see people other than kids in school playing wireless LAN games. That's the most likely place where you're going to find so many others with PSP or DS units.

Living in NYC, I have to disagree.

That is why online games, at least in the US, have had some success (not huge success but certainly more than link or LAN kind of games.). More PS2 Network Adapters and XBL Starter Kits have been sold than any link cable accessories have been sold. Probably more than the PS2 multitaps too. And more than whatever the Gamecube uses to connect to the GBA.

Actually, there's more GBA wireless adapters out there than PS2 network adapters or Xbox Live kits.

 

[wco81]

So you meet strangers in the city and play wireless GBA games with them?

What are the odds that any one place you go will have other GBA-toting people and that they will have the same games (or do GBA wireless games not require everyone to have a copy of the game?).

If there are more GBA wireless adapters (is it a Nintendo thing or a third-party thing?), console online gaming sure gets a lot more publicity these days.

 

[jarrod]

So you meet strangers in the city and play wireless GBA games with them?

Nope, I don't have a wireless adapter. I see GBAs everywhere though and a diveristy of people using them.

What are the odds that any one place you go will have other GBA-toting people and that they will have the same games (or do GBA wireless games not require everyone to have a copy of the game?).

Some games do, and DS will as well. Mario 64 (4 players) and Ridge Racer (6 players) being confirmed to have full multiplayer options off one game card for example. I'd assume PSP would have something similar.

If there are more GBA wireless adapters (is it a Nintendo thing or a third-party thing?), console online gaming sure gets a lot more publicity these days.

It's a first party thing, Nintendo's bundled them with Pokemon Fire Red & Leaf Green. That makes roughly 3.5 million out there so far in less than a year while PS2 NAs number around 3 million and XBL kits number 1 million both after 2 years.

 

[wco81]

Sony has sold tons of the standalone adapters. They've also been bundling the adapter for about a year.

Now of course the new PS2 model has the ethernet and modem integrated in the slim design.

Now, most PS2 owners aren't using these capabilities, just as most Xbox owners don't go online despite having the ethernet built-in.

Still, gamers talk more about console online than wireless handheld gaming so a lot of those GBA gamers probably aren't using the wireless features.

Cell phone gaming may trump all of this in the end since those games do allow online gaming through the cell network. They don't have to look for anyone nearby. There are potential gaming opponents or co-op teammates across the whole city, country or world in that case.

 

[jarrod]

Sony has sold tons of the standalone adapters. They've also been bundling the adapter for about a year.

Now of course the new PS2 model has the ethernet and modem integrated in the slim design.

Yes... about 3 million so far worldwide. The PStwo redesign will ensure that number goes up fast though.

Now, most PS2 owners aren't using these capabilities, just as most Xbox owners don't go online despite having the ethernet built-in.

Still, gamers talk more about console online than wireless handheld gaming so a lot of those GBA gamers probably aren't using the wireless features.

Well, the GBA adapter is only a month old in the US and not out in Europe, and there's only a handfull of games that support it so far (Pokemon, Digimon Racing, Mario Golf, Hamtaro Sports & NES Classics). Not to mention everyone seems to be touting the wireless capabilities of DS and PSP... I'm not sure comparing that directly to the consistant promotion of XBox Live/PS2 Online over 2+ years is really a balanced comparison.

Cell phone gaming may trump all of this in the end since those games do allow online gaming through the cell network. They don't have to look for anyone nearby. There are potential gaming opponents or co-op teammates across the whole city, country or world in that case.

N-Gage says "hi".

 

[wco81]

Not even N-Gage.

I'm talking about all those phones with color screens and cameras.

Games aren't even 3D but tons of people are paying to download them, at least in Asia and Europe.

In the US, venture capital money is pouring into mobile game developers. These aren't N-Gage or PSP game developers. These are simple things like bowling and so forth.

 

[wco81]

Not even N-Gage.

I'm talking about all those phones with color screens and cameras.

Games aren't even 3D but tons of people are paying to download them, at least in Asia and Europe.

In the US, venture capital money is pouring into mobile game developers. These aren't N-Gage or PSP game developers. These are simple things like bowling and so forth.

 

[PC-Engine]

PSP doesn't offer a new type of gaming experience. It's all been done before on Nintendo portables and the upcoming NDS. It will sell mainly because of its price and as SONY's first entry into the portable console market, NOT because of system selling titles since the games are just watered down PS2 ports. Yes some people will buy it for certain games, but most people will buy it for the reasons I posted earlier since they know the games they want will eventually arrive.

PC-Eng... tell me which handheld thus far will come close in letting you play titles near on-par of current gen's games on the move? If this is not a new type of gaming, then what is?

Updated graphics is nothing new to gaming. It's a natural evolution. Even NDS has updated graphics including 3D too.

 

[Jov]

PC-Eng... tell me which handheld thus far will come close in letting you play titles near on-par of current gen's games on the move? If this is not a new type of gaming, then what is?

Updated graphics is nothing new to gaming. It's a natural evolution. Even NDS has updated graphics including 3D too.

I'll take that _wink_ as an attempt in skewing my point!

We'll have to wait until the release to see the PSP in real, but from the videos, the images were great for a handheld (albeit most were taken in poor lighting).

Considering the current generation is not over, for any company to bring a handheld to market with (near) current tech is impressive, compared to existing and past handhelds which is at best 1 if not 2 generations behind their living room cousins.

 

[Lazy8s]

Console-level tech -- in fact, better in some ways such as curved surface support and high color/Z precision -- has been available for handhelds for over a year now. There's some really impressive SoCs on Renesas' roadmap, putting to use the efficient SuperH architecture (sparing MBX from the gluttonous XScale CPUs) and showing leading performance characteristics, even at the disadvantage of 90 versus 130 nm manufacturing.

 

[PC-Engine]

Considering the current generation is not over, for any company to bring a handheld to market with (near) current tech is impressive, compared to existing and past handhelds which is at best 1 if not 2 generations behind their living room cousins.

Actually all you need to do is look back over 10 years ago when NEC did indeed release a portable that could actually play console carts on the go on a high resolution active matrix TFT backlit LCD. You could even watch television on it with a small tv tuner module. What the TurboExpress showed was that technology is not the most important aspect of a portable gaming system. Sure PSP isn't $300 like the TE was, but $200 right now is still not a mass market price for a portable. Sure you're getting more (better graphics/bigger screen), but ultimately the mass market will decide if they're willing to pay $200 for it. $200 for a console is nothing because we've been used to paying that much way back during the 16-bit days, but the portable market is a little different. Whether or not PSP will change that we'll indeed have to wait and see.

 

[one]

Considering the current generation is not over, for any company to bring a handheld to market with (near) current tech is impressive, compared to existing and past handhelds which is at best 1 if not 2 generations behind their living room cousins.

Actually all you need to do is look back over 10 years ago when NEC did indeed release a portable that could actually play console carts on the go on a high resolution active matrix TFT backlit LCD. You could even watch television on it with a small tv tuner module. What the TurboExpress showed was that technology is not the most important aspect of a portable gaming system.

The problem is, the screen of TurboExpress was too small to read a text in a game developed for a console In addition to it, its battery (3 hours by 6 batteries) and the price tag ($400) was too much.

Dude, yesterday's technology is different from today's one.

 

[Ty]

Dude, yesterday's technology is different from today's one.

But is that really relevant? Isn't the question, "Is yesterday's consumer different than today's one?" Because if they still aren't ready to buy into the concept, PSP will fail much like the TG-Express did (regardless of what the technology is). FYI I think it will do quite well.

 

[PC-Engine]

Considering the current generation is not over, for any company to bring a handheld to market with (near) current tech is impressive, compared to existing and past handhelds which is at best 1 if not 2 generations behind their living room cousins.

Actually all you need to do is look back over 10 years ago when NEC did indeed release a portable that could actually play console carts on the go on a high resolution active matrix TFT backlit LCD. You could even watch television on it with a small tv tuner module. What the TurboExpress showed was that technology is not the most important aspect of a portable gaming system.

The problem is, the screen of TurboExpress was too small to read a text in a game developed for a console In addition to it, its battery (3 hours by 6 batteries) and the price tag ($400) was too much.

Dude, yesterday's technology is different from today's one.

Heh false information as always. Do you have a TE? Didn't think so. TG-16 games ran at 320x256 resolution and on the the TE the text was not a problem to read at all. If the games were natively 640x480 then your argument might hold water. Also it wasn't $400. It was $300. So two of your points just got shot down. The battery life is true but the PSP doesn't seem like it'll be winning any awards in that department either. Regardless the point is still the same. More advanced graphics technology will not be a significant factor in the portable market as far as mass market is concerned.

 

[one]

Dude, yesterday's technology is different from today's one.

But is that really relevant? Isn't the question, "Is yesterday's consumer different than today's one?"

Please don't swap the argument Read what PC-Engine wrote, I only replied to it.

TG-16 games ran at 320x256 resolution and on the the TE the text was not a problem to read at all. Laughing If the games were natively 640x480 then your argument might hold water. Wink Also it wasn't $400. It was $300. So two of your points just got shot down. The battery life is true but the PSP doesn't seem like it'll be winning any awards in that department either. Regardless the point is still the same. More advanced graphics technology will not be a significant factor in the portable market as far as mass market is concerned.

Please don't swap the argument I wrote 'the screen of TurboExpress was too small'. Not its resolution, but the screen size itself (2.2") is too small. Now its screen size is smaller than GBA (2.9") of which screen resolution is lower than NES, then you play a game with higher resolution than NES on TE, you'll get the idea, not to mention artistic decision on TG-16 games without consideration about a small screen.

Besides, PC-Engine GT (the original name of TE) was sold for 44,800 yen in Japan at its release date 01-12-1990.

What PSP shows today is what SCE considers as the criticall mass / bare minimum of the spec with which one can enjoy PlayStation experience. If PSP can hold a meaningful position in the market, if not dominant, thereafter in people's mind a certain concept will form up: THE standard screen size of handheld gaming is the PSP size. Once they become accustomed to a bigger size, it's difficult to go back to a smaller screen (and a weaker hardware) IMO.

 

[PC-Engine]

Please don't swap the argument I wrote 'the screen of TurboExpress was too small'. Not its resolution, but the screen size itself (2.2") is too small. Now its screen size is smaller than GBA (2.9") of which screen resolution is lower than NES, then you play a game with higher resolution than NES on TE, you'll get the idea, not to mention artistic decision on TG-16 games without consideration about a small screen.

Still spreading false information (SONY propaganda) as usual.

Since when did the TE use a 2.2" screen?

You just don't get it man. 1. TG-16 games ran at 320x256 which is NOT a high resolution. 2. The LCD on the TE has a resolution of 400x270 which is HIGHER than what a TG-16 game outputs. 3. The screen is 2.6" so it isn't that much smaller than a GBA. As a matter of fact I have them sitting side by side right now just so I can see if there is any significant size difference. Surprisingly the TE's screen is the same height as the GBA SPs. Only difference is SPs screen is wider. SP aspect ratios is 3:2 TE is 4:3.

TG-16 games didn't have tiny fonts anyway. Why? Because the TG-16 games were low resolution. You can't have tiny fonts in a low resolution game without them getting pixelated. Got it? Therefore when you play them on the TE which has a higher resolution screen, the fonts can be read without any problems even if the game wasn't designed for a portable in the first place. Understand? Also the TE was released in North America at $300 so whatever price it was sold for in Japan is irrelevent since all Japanese consoles were more expensive than the North American variants by a fairly large margin especially the PC Engine line of products and games.

What PSP shows today is what SCE considers as the criticall mass / bare minimum of the spec with which one can enjoy PlayStation experience. If PSP can hold a meaningful position in the market, if not dominant, thereafter in people's mind a certain concept will form up: THE standard screen size of handheld gaming is the PSP size. Once they become accustomed to a bigger size, it's difficult to go back to a smaller screen (and a weaker hardware) IMO.

I don't think this is the case at all. A 3.5" screen is the perfect size for a pocketable game console. PSP is not pocketable. If you asked the average gamer if they would rather have an SP sized portable or a PSP sized one, most would pick the SP form factor.

 

[one]

Still spreading false information (SONY propaganda) as usual.

Since when did the TE use a 2.2" screen?

You just don't get it man. 1. TG-16 games ran at 320x256 which is NOT a high resolution. 2. The LCD on the TE has a resolution of 400x270 which is HIGHER than what a TG-16 game outputs. 3. The screen is 2.6" so it isn't that much smaller than a GBA. As a matter of fact I have them sitting side by side right now just so I can see if there is any significant size difference. Surprisingly the TE's screen is the same height as the GBA SPs. Only difference is SPs screen is wider. SP aspect ratios is 3:2 TE is 4:3.

TG-16 games didn't have tiny fonts anyway. Why? Because the TG-16 games were low resolution. You can't have tiny fonts in a low resolution game without them getting pixelated. Got it? Therefore when you play them on the TE which has a higher resolution screen, the fonts can be read without any problems even if the game wasn't designed for a portable in the first place. Understand? Also the TE was released in North America at $300 so whatever price it was sold for in Japan is irrelevent since all Japanese consoles were more expensive than the North American variants by a fairly large margin especially the PC Engine line of products and games.

What PSP shows today is what SCE considers as the criticall mass / bare minimum of the spec with which one can enjoy PlayStation experience. If PSP can hold a meaningful position in the market, if not dominant, thereafter in people's mind a certain concept will form up: THE standard screen size of handheld gaming is the PSP size. Once they become accustomed to a bigger size, it's difficult to go back to a smaller screen (and a weaker hardware) IMO.

I don't think this is the case at all. A 3.5" screen is the perfect size for a pocketable game console. PSP is not pocketable. If you asked the average gamer if they would rather have an SP sized portable or a PSP sized one, most would pick the SP form factor.

OK, 2.6", fine.
If your PC resolution is 17" CRT @ 1280*1024

For 17" CRT @ 1024*768

My eyes hurt

 

[PC-Engine]

My screen CRT is 19" 1280x1024.

Anyway trust me dude, I have a TE, I should know. Reading text is not a problem on a TE. As a matter of fact I have the US version of R-Type and played it frequently back in the day. It's a very difficult game even after using the IIRC 9 credits cheat.

 

[Jov]

You just don't get it man. 1. TG-16 games ran at 320x256 which is NOT a high resolution. 2. The LCD on the TE has a resolution of 400x270 which is HIGHER than what a TG-16 game outputs. 3. The screen is 2.6" so it isn't that much smaller than a GBA. As a matter of fact I have them sitting side by side right now just so I can see if there is any significant size difference. Surprisingly the TE's screen is the same height as the GBA SPs. Only difference is SPs screen is wider. SP aspect ratios is 3:2 TE is 4:3.

Check this site out for specs:
http://www.totalgames.net/pma/20618
Res: 256 x 256

Anyway it sounds like an impresses piece of hardware for its time, but looking at the release dates, its still (just) one generation behind. 16bit era started when the MD came out, which was a year before the PC-Eng GT.

On a side note, the PC Engine page is interesting as well:
http://www.totalgames.net/pma/18750
Res: 256 x 216

 

[one]

Check this site out for specs:
http://www.totalgames.net/pma/20618
Res: 256 x 256

Anyway it sounds like an impresses piece of hardware for its time, but looking at the release dates, its still (just) one generation behind. 16bit era started when the MD came out, which was a year before the PC-Eng GT.

On a side note, the PC Engine page is interesting as well:
http://www.totalgames.net/pma/18750
Res: 256 x 216

PC-Engine had the hi-res mode (320*224), though not sure how PC-Engine GT had handled it.