But we gamers would need a clear visual difference in graphics to buy a new console. I understand that this extra 25% memory would make the work of the developers easier, but MS is interested in the amount of consoles sold and the related Game Pass. Who would buy a 6-700 dollar console that can barely do more? Not many.
Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?
- Thread starter invictis
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I don't see a scenario why people would need PS5pro or Xbox Pro if they can get Hellbalde 2, Fable, Gears 6 graphics quality on Xbox SX. I didn't say Sony titles because they don't have any serious titles announced and presented for 2024. If people can see that Hellblade 2 and other Xbox games look amazing, how can a mid gen console be sold to the masses?
I don't see a scenario for the mid gen console to exist...
I don't see a scenario for the mid gen console to exist...
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
The reason for Sony to bring out the PS5 Pro is for 60 fps GTA VI. That's all really, and it's probably enough of a reason.
As I said many times, MS should follow a year later with something 25% better, but announce the crap out of it so Xbox fans wait rather than flee for PS5 Pro. It more or less worked for X1 Pro vs. PS4 Pro.
Sometimes in these discussion we forget that on Series consoles you can still play Elden Ring, BG3, Hogwart's Legacy, Resident Evil series, Cyberpunk 2077 etc... a lot of big titles. The Xbox vs. Sony 1st party can be debated, but there's not much difference in 3rd party lineups really. Sure there's a few things like FFXVI, but for the most part the Series consoles have a lot of great games to play.
I've been thinking about it more and have come to the conclusion that for the beginning of this generation (and maybe the whole generation) MS kind of has to play Sony's game as it relates to 3rd party and hardware utilization, but as the 40 studios get cranking, MS having more powerful hardware for 1st party can make more sense over time. So when 1st party output is low, like 2022 where almost nothing is released, you're not going to be able showcase better hardware even if you make it, because 3rd parties aren't really going to bother using more compute or memory when PS5 is the lead platform for practically every game. But as 1st party output increases to 6+ AAA budget games per year over time, then MS can use 1st party games to really showcase new hardware. GTA VI can more or less look the same between MS/Sony platforms, but Gears 6, Fable, State of Decay 3 etc... could really showcase new hardware that MS brings out if they decide to keep up in the tech arms race with Sony.
It all boils down to the games. They need to have the showcase titles that make the new hardware shine, if they're going to bother bringing it out.
As I said many times, MS should follow a year later with something 25% better, but announce the crap out of it so Xbox fans wait rather than flee for PS5 Pro. It more or less worked for X1 Pro vs. PS4 Pro.
Sometimes in these discussion we forget that on Series consoles you can still play Elden Ring, BG3, Hogwart's Legacy, Resident Evil series, Cyberpunk 2077 etc... a lot of big titles. The Xbox vs. Sony 1st party can be debated, but there's not much difference in 3rd party lineups really. Sure there's a few things like FFXVI, but for the most part the Series consoles have a lot of great games to play.
I've been thinking about it more and have come to the conclusion that for the beginning of this generation (and maybe the whole generation) MS kind of has to play Sony's game as it relates to 3rd party and hardware utilization, but as the 40 studios get cranking, MS having more powerful hardware for 1st party can make more sense over time. So when 1st party output is low, like 2022 where almost nothing is released, you're not going to be able showcase better hardware even if you make it, because 3rd parties aren't really going to bother using more compute or memory when PS5 is the lead platform for practically every game. But as 1st party output increases to 6+ AAA budget games per year over time, then MS can use 1st party games to really showcase new hardware. GTA VI can more or less look the same between MS/Sony platforms, but Gears 6, Fable, State of Decay 3 etc... could really showcase new hardware that MS brings out if they decide to keep up in the tech arms race with Sony.
It all boils down to the games. They need to have the showcase titles that make the new hardware shine, if they're going to bother bringing it out.
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And why shouldn't they be able to use their upcoming games, which will soon be ready, to shine on the re-released and cheaper ($400/$250) current consoles of the Xbox Series in 2024? Then, continuing this, each year with 6-8 AAA plus the same number of AA titles. They can do it and bring out the more powerful hardware in 2026 or 2027 as well.
In principle, the Xbox is capable of the FSR3 framerate increasing technology. 30 ~ 60?! Maybe they will solve it (I know the previously described limitations of the technology, but this does not rule out that it is possible) so that it runs well and thus the current Xboxes will also run GTA6 at 60FPS.
Frenetic Pony
Veteran
There's always an audience for "a bigger stick", otherwise people wouldn't be out there buying 4090s and such. But the question is how big that audience is, and how many are willing to buy a console for it.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Latest rumors for MS is that they will shrink X & S in 2024 and sell for $349/$200 and then release their next machine in 2026, which could work for them. It's a little longer after the Pro than I might recommend, but maybe it's fine. I can imagine a pretty nice piece of kit for $499 in 2026. It would keep ME from buying a PS5 Pro, which might be the target demographic - people who bought an X at launch in 2020. They certainly have the 1st party games in development to show off whatever they decide to do. Then if Sony brings out something new in 2027, MS brings out their next machine in 2029. They'll be a lot less reliant on 3rd party games by then and GP will probably have 50+ million subs.
Sony is launching their next console earliest Dec 2027. The Pro is there to finish the second half of the gen. I dont know which games MSFT is developing right now that will launch 2026 with a new Xbox. They'd need a strong line up otherwise the consumers are going to tear them a new one. And its going to be at a time of sub $400 current gen consoles, the PS5 pro as well will be selling at discounts by 2026. We're talking at least 70mn consoles. How are they going to convince devs to utilize that hardware? And what kind of cheap memory will be available by 2026. GDDR7 is coming out next year, 2026 is too soon to see major price drops and for now there's only 2GB and 3GB modules. In order to keep costs down they'd have to make a console with 36GB of unified memory on a 382 bit bus using 3GB modules. In 2027 or 2028 they could get higher amounts of RAM at lower prices. Of course they can lock in a long term deal in 2026 for 4GB modules of GDDR7 or something like that but they would be selling at a significant loss in 2026. All this doesn't mean its impossible but their launch line up would have to be spectacular in order for it to work out in 2026. As well I'd be curious to see if they try launching two consoles again. I would be shocked if they did.
You bring up some good points, But you're talking about a company that paid top dollar for the Series X APU with a powerful GPU and CPU and did absolutely nothing with it. Dont underestimate their ability to come up with some diversionary goal(Home Entertainment system with the Xbox One, Series S+Gamepass deals more important than quality exclusives) instead of just the best gaming experience with high quality releases which Nintendo and Sony are great at. Listening to Seamus Blackely and Ed Fries they've said or hinted in interviews that as soon as the Xbox was born there was always that non gaming thing that was imposed on the Xbox team. It just came out in full force with the Home entertainment agenda of the Xbox One. And its still lingering up to today. Without changing that attitude or direction its always going to be an issue making great games consistently on the Xbox like they did with the Xbox and 360. Under those two there was a clear goal and simple product. But you're absolutely right it boils down to the games. The team just needs to realize that and focus on making one console, one cloud gaming platform at a time. Thats how the original Xbox came to be actually. A realization that multiple configurations of hw on PC were not bringing about the same quality of software as on consoles despite their efforts with Direct X.
Problem with an Xbox pro is theres already two consoles. PS5 pro is going to sell out especially with GTA 6. It will be the best way to play GTA 6 until the game arrives on PC. Devs will simply make a game on the PS5 and with a few changes get higher fps on the pro. Simple. It will be a machine to play your PS5 games in the best possible way i.e a pro way. And people will buy it. And it will be cheap, and it can play all PS5 games and etc etc.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
MS had 5 studios 3 years before the Series launched into a pandemic. Now they have 40 studios 3 years before their rumored next console. That's a world of difference. You might even say it's "meaningful."
I'mDudditz!
Newcomer
Just so you know Johnny Awesome I was amused by your comment because you seemed to suggest Xbox have a new generation lasting 3 years between 2026-2029. Now I see it's possible you are suggesting Xbox should launch a new generation in 2026 and a mid-gen refresh in 2029. I think you don't know/realize Sony plans to launch a new generation in 2028. So that proposed 2029 mid-gen upgrade would be worthless if Sony gen starts in 2028 and a 2029 console has to accommodate a 2026 generation. It would be a terrible strategy all around and that's even before we talk about developer adoption, which isn't insignificant and won't be favorable at all for team green.
Uh this is Sony tho. I don't think it'll be cheap
I think Xbox are appropriately focused on games nowadays. It's just execution they're lacking with. Both in strategy and just general game quality. The purposefully long cross-gen period they went with was a big mistake in my opinion. Having literally zero actual next gen titles at all for years is just a bad look and instantly makes the box lose a fair bit of appeal. And then even with all the studios they had, they basically had NOTHING for all of 2022. It's probably the worst year for 1st party titles for any major console ever.
Then some bigger games like Forza Motorsport which was in the works for six years instead of the usual two finally comes out and it simply came and went cuz it felt little more than an iterative FM in too many ways and even a step back in some others. It made no splash at all. Then the biggest downer for Xbox was Starfield which they really needed to be a megahit and it just wasn't. I still think they got a great deal buying Bethesda, but Xbox itself really needed that game to rejuvenate how gamers perceive the brand and make Xbox Series X/S a console people needed to have. Obviously Starfield isn't all Xbox's fault, but they should have known what they were buying at the same time.
If Microsoft think they can bypass all these problems by simply by hitting some 'reset' button by releasing new hardware in 2026, which will be highly premature in both technical advancements and what developers are actually ready for, it will be a death spiral desperation move for the Xbox division as a whole.
Literally the only thing they need to do from now until like late 2027 or 2028 is just focus on releasing a moderately steady stream of great exclusive games. That's it.
Starfield and FM are only two games, two. And both are very good games. They may not be perfect, but they are still very enjoyable games and many people play them. Motorsport is an auto sim based on online and has a very enjoyable driving model. Among the professionals, it is much better regarded than the previous arcade Forzas. And Motorsport is a GaaS game that has only just been released and will continue to be developed in the coming years.
Starfield is actually a much better game than some online circles make it out to be. I myself have over 100+ hours in it and it's grandiose and addictive. Also, it is constantly being developed by listening to the needs of the players, and I am sure that in 2024, thanks to the new content, the game will be much better judged even by people who were critical of it before.
However, IT'S ONLY TWO GAMES!! It would be foolish to think that two games can change the world. A LOT of games are needed, especially in seasons like the last third of the year, when 5 AAA titles are released covering all needs, then we can talk about a system seller situation.
Charlietus
Regular
I don't think that Xbox games are the problem. When the ps3 was underperforming, Sony started working on it's platform and studios as soon as possible, and it even managed to sell more units by the end.
On the other hand, Microsoft decided to try and compete starting in 2017-2018, after years of playstation domination. Every console that gets sold by it's competitors will probably remain in that ecosystem, be it Sony or Nintendo, since people now build digital libraries.
They should have gone all in as soon as possible after the Xbox one failure, but here we are 10 years later, and I don't see a bright future for Xbox consoles.
Of course Microsoft isn't getting out of the gaming business, but how long will they accept to trade profits for remaining in the console market?
On the other hand, Microsoft decided to try and compete starting in 2017-2018, after years of playstation domination. Every console that gets sold by it's competitors will probably remain in that ecosystem, be it Sony or Nintendo, since people now build digital libraries.
They should have gone all in as soon as possible after the Xbox one failure, but here we are 10 years later, and I don't see a bright future for Xbox consoles.
Of course Microsoft isn't getting out of the gaming business, but how long will they accept to trade profits for remaining in the console market?
You can defend those games all you like and they could be your favorite games of the year and it wouldn't change that the general perception of them is not terribly positive, much less the big critical hits that Xbox needed them to be. I'm also not even mentioning that Redfall, their only other big exclusive this year, was pretty much universally panned. Hi-Fi Rush was probably their only convincing 'win' at all, but this sort of mid-tier game also doesn't garner the prestige that full scale AAA games do in the gaming market.
The fact that this disappointing slate of releases(from a critical perspective) followed the worst year in 1st party history, really just adds insult to injury for Xbox, its brand perception, and importantly its momentum for this Series X/S generation as a whole. I wasn't suggesting that those two games alone were all that Xbox needed and would ever need.
Momentum has to be sparked again from somewhere though.
PS3 was underperforming, then Playstation started releasing a bunch of good 1st party games and it turned the platform around.
Sounds like it's very much about the games.
It would be a mistake for Xbox to admit defeat simply because of digital libraries. People WILL buy a console for some must-play exclusives. This has literally been the main selling point of every successful console so far and there's little reason to think it will change. Xbox may have no chance of 'winning' the generation, but they can definitely put themselves in a better position going forward compared to where they are now, to where they dont have to resort to any desperation moves like trying to cut this gen short and releasing new hardware in 2026.
Charlietus
Regular
PS3 was underperforming, then Playstation started releasing a bunch of good 1st party games and it turned the platform around.
It would be a mistake for Xbox to admit defeat simply because of digital libraries. People WILL buy a console for some must-play exclusives. This has literally been the main selling point of every successful console so far and there's little reason to think it will change. Xbox may have no chance of 'winning' the generation, but they can definitely put themselves in a better position going forward compared to where they are now, to where they dont have to resort to any desperation moves like trying to cut this gen short and releasing new hardware in 2026.
It would be a mistake for Xbox to admit defeat simply because of digital libraries. People WILL buy a console for some must-play exclusives. This has literally been the main selling point of every successful console so far and there's little reason to think it will change. Xbox may have no chance of 'winning' the generation, but they can definitely put themselves in a better position going forward compared to where they are now, to where they dont have to resort to any desperation moves like trying to cut this gen short and releasing new hardware in 2026.
Charlietus
Regular
Sorry, ignore this post, f****d up on mobile
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