Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[chris1515]

From Bethesda Starfield, Redfall, Hifi Rush.
From XGS: Age of Empires 2 DE, Age of Empires IV, Forza Motorsport, Killer Instinct AE.

That's 3 new IPs, 3 remasters/rereleases, and 1 sequel. They aren't all bangers, but I think Starfield, Hifi Rush and Forza are all considered good games. Forza and Hifi Rush both won awards at The Game Awards. Starfield won Xbox GOTY at the Golden Joysticks. AOE4 won best strategy game at TGA for it's earlier PC release. It's still more than double the first party output of Playstation Studios this year, 7 times the output if you exclude VR games, 1.3 times the output if you include VR but exclude rereleases, and 3 (vs 0) games that aren't sequels or based on existing IP.


Nokia nGage, Xperia Play, I fell like I used to have a phone (though it may have been a PDA) that had a dpad that was also the grill for the speaker, but I can't remember. But yes, we keep hearing how mobile is the fastest growing gaming market, why aren't we getting a phone with gaming controls built in. Or at least a first party controller or phone case with buttons.

I reject your question.

Right. Microsoft was also the best publisher in 2021 as ranked by Metacritic, where they scored higher than any publisher ever for any year that Metacritic has ranked publishers. And with Sony's lackluster output this year, that means the first party line ups for 2 of the last 3 years has been better on Xbox than Playstation. Yet Xbox is getting crushed in terms of hardware sales. Microsoft can't seam to win the mindshare regardless of the quality or quantity of their software output.

Take out AA games score for Xbox and compare. Same take out VR games on Sony side and compare. You don't need to take out AA games on PS5, Sony prefer have timed exclusive third party on this segment of title. People don't buy a current gen console for VR or AA games but AAA games and Sony is better on this side with Demon's soul's remake (92 MC/92 OC), Returnal(86MC/86 OC), God of War Ragnarok(94MC/93OC), Horizon Forbidden West( 88MC/88OC), Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart(88MC/88OC), Spiderman Miles Morales(85MC/85OC), Gran Turismo 7(87MC/87OC). This year Sony release one PS5 game Spiderman 2 and it is 90 on Metacritic and Opencritic.

The Biggest Disappointments of 2023 - IGN

Video games and films have had a good year, but there were also a few disappointments that we’re still not over.

www.ign.com

Starfield is a good game(80+), not a very good one(85+) or better an excellent game(90+) or a nominee for game of the generation(95+).

Halo Infinite(87MC/86OC), Forza Horizon 5(92MC/92OC), Forza Motorsport (84MC/85OC), Starfield(83MC/85OC) and Flight simulator(91MC/92OC)

This is not bad bad but less game than Sony. And the franchise are declining for the XGS games out of Forza Horizon and Flight Simulator. And no luck for Xbox, flight simulation game and racing game aren't the most popular games cf. Sales of game in the Insomniac leak.

You don't sold a console with AA games, this is the reality of the market...

2024 Preview: Hellblade 2 could be Xbox’s most important exclusive | VGC

For Microsoft, all eyes (and ears) will be on Ninja Theory in 2024…

www.videogameschronicle.com

They need Hellblade 2 to be the new God of War 2018 or the new TLOU a 94 to 96 MC games.

 

[see colon]

Take out AA games score for Xbox and compare. Same take out VR games on Sony side and compare. You don't need to take out AA games on PS5, Sony prefer have timed exclusive third party on this segment of title. People don't buy a current gen console for VR or AA games but AAA games and Sony is better on this side with Demon's soul's remake (92 MC/92 OC), Returnal(86MC/86 OC), God of War Ragnarok(94MC/93OC), Horizon Forbidden West( 88MC/88OC), Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart(88MC/88OC), Spiderman Miles Morales(85MC/85OC), Gran Turismo 7(87MC/87OC). This year Sony release one PS5 game Spiderman 2 and it is 90 on Metacritic and Opencritic.

Sony has had a solid lineup for this generation, but only Demon's Souls, Reternal, Rift Apart and Spider-man 2 are PS5 games, though. The rest of the games you mentioned were cross gen and appeared on PS4. And only Reternal is a game from a new franchise. I'm not trying to disparage Sony's lineup. But it isn't filled with new experiences that are unlike anything you could play on their previous generation of hardware, with the exception of Reternal and some elements of Rift Apart. The moment to moment gameplay of Rift Apart is still firmly a Ratchet and Clank game, though.

Mathematically weighing review score, an 80% game is 88% "as good" as a 90% game. Even if every Xbox game was only 88% as good as every Playstation game, it doesn't explain the disparity in sales that we are seeing. And that would disregard the quantity of game launches that Microsoft has had this year. People keep fixating on Microsoft's library like it's somehow lacking. I don't actually think it is. They've been releasing quality titles; 88% as good as the competition in fact, with more diversity in genres* with more new IPs, more frequently, on less expensive hardware, but still failing to make any gains in the mindshare department. That's the real problem.

*Sony do not have a first party strategy game (like Age of Empires, or Gears Tactics), flight simulator, fighting game (killer Instinct), Western Style RPG (Starfield, Elder Scrolls, Pillars, Wasteland) or open world crafting/survival game (Minecraft, State of Decay, Grounded). Microsoft does not have a stick and ball sports game (MLB The Show), but the Sony made one is a day 1 Gamepass release.

I also think people expecting Hellblade 2 to be "AAA", whatever that means, will be disappointed. And if they aren't, the Hellblade fans will be disappointed. But I don't think I've ever played a Ninja Theory game that I would describe as a AAA experience. Perhaps DMC is one, but it's the one non-vr, non mobile game that they made that I've never played.

 

[Nesh]

From Bethesda Starfield, Redfall, Hifi Rush.
From XGS: Age of Empires 2 DE, Age of Empires IV, Forza Motorsport, Killer Instinct AE.

That's 3 new IPs, 3 remasters/rereleases, and 1 sequel. They aren't all bangers, but I think Starfield, Hifi Rush and Forza are all considered good games. Forza and Hifi Rush both won awards at The Game Awards. Starfield won Xbox GOTY at the Golden Joysticks. AOE4 won best strategy game at TGA for it's earlier PC release. It's still more than double the first party output of Playstation Studios this year, 7 times the output if you exclude VR games, 1.3 times the output if you include VR but exclude rereleases, and 3 (vs 0) games that aren't sequels or based on existing IP.

That's a very weak lineup. AoE is a niche with zero wow factor. Redfall is mediocre. Killer Instinct AE is niche and old. Hi Fi Rush is a great game but definitely not a system seller. These games barely create enough interest. For the majority they are insignificant. From your list only Forza and Starfield are noteworthy as IPs that define XBOX as a proposal for the market at large.

 

[chris1515]

Sony has had a solid lineup for this generation, but only Demon's Souls, Reternal, Rift Apart and Spider-man 2 are PS5 games, though. The rest of the games you mentioned were cross gen and appeared on PS4. And only Reternal is a game from a new franchise. I'm not trying to disparage Sony's lineup. But it isn't filled with new experiences that are unlike anything you could play on their previous generation of hardware, with the exception of Reternal and some elements of Rift Apart. The moment to moment gameplay of Rift Apart is still firmly a Ratchet and Clank game, though.

Mathematically weighing review score, an 80% game is 88% "as good" as a 90% game. Even if every Xbox game was only 88% as good as every Playstation game, it doesn't explain the disparity in sales that we are seeing. And that would disregard the quantity of game launches that Microsoft has had this year. People keep fixating on Microsoft's library like it's somehow lacking. I don't actually think it is. They've been releasing quality titles; 88% as good as the competition in fact, with more diversity in genres* with more new IPs, more frequently, on less expensive hardware, but still failing to make any gains in the mindshare department. That's the real problem.

*Sony do not have a first party strategy game (like Age of Empires, or Gears Tactics), flight simulator, fighting game (killer Instinct), Western Style RPG (Starfield, Elder Scrolls, Pillars, Wasteland) or open world crafting/survival game (Minecraft, State of Decay, Grounded). Microsoft does not have a stick and ball sports game (MLB The Show), but the Sony made one is a day 1 Gamepass release.

I also think people expecting Hellblade 2 to be "AAA", whatever that means, will be disappointed. And if they aren't, the Hellblade fans will be disappointed. But I don't think I've ever played a Ninja Theory game that I would describe as a AAA experience. Perhaps DMC is one, but it's the one non-vr, non mobile game that they made that I've never played.

I invite you to read any sales chart with ratio and you will be surprise to see how PS5 version of cross gen games sold much more than PS4 version. I am a good example because I stop to play PS4 the moment PS5 release waiting when the console will be widely available. Strategy games like flight simulation are mostly play on PC not on console. Same Western style RPG have a good part of the public on PC and out of Starfield all the other titles are futur exclusives on Xbox.

Minecraft is multiplatform...

Gamer don't care if it is a new franchise or not, they need a good game... Sony will release more new franchise later with ND, Sony Santa Monica, Sony Bend, Bluepoint game, Ember labs(next title is a new Sony ip and there is a good reason kena did not release on Xbox), Firesprite, Sony London studio and probably some Sony Xdev collaboration.

The journalist want Hellblade 2 to be AAA and a competitor for game of the generation around 95 MC score.

EDIT: I forget another reason to have a PS5 you can play the exclusive From software game like Demon soul's remake, maybe a Bllodborne remaster/remake one day and probably the next PS from software exclusive teased by Hermen Hulst(head of Sony first party studio) after SIE announced they bought 14% of from software.

GameInformer - The Final Level

"You should think of collaborations on the game development side first and foremost, but it's also not unthinkable with our PlayStation Productions efforts that we explore opportunities," he said.

 

[see colon]

That's a very weak lineup. AoE is a niche with zero wow factor. Redfall is mediocre. Killer Instinct AE is niche and old. Hi Fi Rush is a great game but definitely not a system seller. These games barely create enough interest. For the majority they are insignificant. From your list only Forza and Starfield are noteworthy as IPs that define XBOX as a proposal for the market at large.

Show me Sony's first party RTS game and we can compare it to AOE. Show me Sony's first party fighting game and we can compare it to KI. Show me Sony's first party experimental action game and we can compare it to Hifi Rush. Show me a new, non-licensed IP Sony has launched in the last 2 years and we can compare them to Redfall, Starfield and Hifi Rush. Xbox has a diversity of genres advantage when it comes to first party output. They've launched more new IP in the last 2 months than Playstation has in the last 2 years. And yes, not ever game is a home run. But hitting a single is better than sitting on the bench.

This is turning into some sort of discussion that's missing the forest for the trees. People keep bringing up, say, Redfall, and using it as an indication that a "bad game" shows something that it doesn't. I played Destruction All Stars. Sure, it scored higher than Redfall but it wasn't more fun for me. But you don't see people carrying on about it like it's existence has tainted the Playstation's library beyond repair. I commend Sony for trying something new, but it didn't hit with me. DAS wasn't noteworthy, and didn't create interest in PS5 as a platform, but it's existence isn't a detriment to Sony's lineup like people argue Redfall is. At this point I believe Microsoft should port Redfall to PS5 so that they can use it as an argument in their battle with the FTC, and to drag down people's perception of Playstation 5's library, since Redfall's existence is such a liability.

Sure, Xbox only had Starfield and Forza as tentpole titles this year, with Redfall intended to fall into that role but missing. Playstation only had Spider-man 2. Yet the console with 2x the (good) tentpole releases sold 1/3 the hardware units. and this is the point I keep reiterating. It's not about the games, neither quality nor quantity. It's about the mindshare. Microsoft is failing the mindshare battle, despite releasing quality software.

I invite you to read any sales chart with ratio and you will be surprise to see how PS5 version of cross gen games sold much more than PS4 version. I am a good example because I stop to play PS4 the moment PS5 release waiting when the console will be widely available. Strategy games like flight simulation are mostly play on PC not on console. Same Western style RPG have a good part of the public on PC and out of Starfield all the other titles don't release on Xbox Series.

I'm not surprised at all. I've read the sales charts, and this just reenforces my point. Sony can release a new piece of hardware and get people to upgrade to it and buy the same games that are available on the previous generation while Microsoft cannot. I'm not trying to spin some "Xbox tax" conspiracy theory. I believe Microsoft is to blame for their inability to execute. And it's genuinely impressive that Sony has been able to achieve what they have this generation. Sony's biggest criticisms this generation have been because they were/are charging for "next gen" patches, and have been squishy on digital ownership. But it hasn't affected their business negatively at all. It's genuinely impressive.

Same Western style RPG have a good part of the public on PC and out of Starfield all the other titles don't release on Xbox Series.

Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all playable on Series. Divinity 2, Risen 1 & 2, The Outer Worlds, The Witcher 2 and 3, Pillars of Eternity... All playable on Series. Lots of western RPGs have been released on Series, and PS5 for that matter. There's a pretty big one that just came out on Xbox but has been available on PC and PS5 for a while now called Baldurs Gate 3. You might have heard of it, it won GOTY at The Game Awards, with sales exceeding 20 million units by some estimates.

 

[Nesh]

@see colon there is no point to show you because these titles are insignificant to even bother. Either People outside of niche don't care about them or they aren't impressive enough. These aren't the titles XBOX needs to attract attention. It's the same reason why we aren't bringing All-Star Destruction or Astrobot into the discussion

 

[chris1515]

Show me Sony's first party RTS game and we can compare it to AOE. Show me Sony's first party fighting game and we can compare it to KI. Show me Sony's first party experimental action game and we can compare it to Hifi Rush. Show me a new, non-licensed IP Sony has launched in the last 2 years and we can compare them to Redfall, Starfield and Hifi Rush. Xbox has a diversity of genres advantage when it comes to first party output. They've launched more new IP in the last 2 months than Playstation has in the last 2 years. And yes, not ever game is a home run. But hitting a single is better than sitting on the bench.

This is turning into some sort of discussion that's missing the forest for the trees. People keep bringing up, say, Redfall, and using it as an indication that a "bad game" shows something that it doesn't. I played Destruction All Stars. Sure, it scored higher than Redfall but it wasn't more fun for me. But you don't see people carrying on about it like it's existence has tainted the Playstation's library beyond repair. I commend Sony for trying something new, but it didn't hit with me. DAS wasn't noteworthy, and didn't create interest in PS5 as a platform, but it's existence isn't a detriment to Sony's lineup like people argue Redfall is. At this point I believe Microsoft should port Redfall to PS5 so that they can use it as an argument in their battle with the FTC, and to drag down people's perception of Playstation 5's library, since Redfall's existence is such a liability.

Sure, Xbox only had Starfield and Forza as tentpole titles this year, with Redfall intended to fall into that role but missing. Playstation only had Spider-man 2. Yet the console with 2x the (good) tentpole releases sold 1/3 the hardware units. and this is the point I keep reiterating. It's not about the games, neither quality nor quantity. It's about the mindshare. Microsoft is failing the mindshare battle, despite releasing quality software.

I'm not surprised at all. I've read the sales charts, and this just reenforces my point. Sony can release a new piece of hardware and get people to upgrade to it and buy the same games that are available on the previous generation while Microsoft cannot. I'm not trying to spin some "Xbox tax" conspiracy theory. I believe Microsoft is to blame for their inability to execute. And it's genuinely impressive that Sony has been able to achieve what they have this generation. Sony's biggest criticisms this generation have been because they were/are charging for "next gen" patches, and have been squishy on digital ownership. But it hasn't affected their business negatively at all. It's genuinely impressive.


Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are all playable on Series. Divinity 2, Risen 1 & 2, The Outer Worlds, The Witcher 2 and 3, Pillars of Eternity... All playable on Series. Lots of western RPGs have been released on Series, and PS5 for that matter. There's a pretty big one that just came out on Xbox but has been available on PC and PS5 for a while now called Baldurs Gate 3. You might have heard of it, it won GOTY at The Game Awards, with sales exceeding 20 million units by some estimates.

They were not new exclusive Xbox Series or cross gen title out The Outer Worlds. We can speak when Elder Scroll 6 release on Xbox.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

I think it's worth noting that it effectively took Sony the entire PS3 generation to build the perception of a strong 1st party, and they rode the wave of this perception with the PS4.

MS didn't build that perception last generation, so hopefully this is the generation where they can turn that around. Their recent output does suggest they're doing so.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[see colon]

@see colon there is no point to show you because these titles are insignificant to even bother. Either People outside of niche don't care about them or they aren't impressive enough. These aren't the titles XBOX needs to attract attention. It's the same reason why we aren't bringing All-Star Destruction or Astrobot into the discussion

Every Xbox first party game might be insignificant if recent history is any indication.

They were not new exclusive Xbox Series or cross gen title out The Outer Worlds. We can speak when Elder Scroll 6 release on Xbox.

Avowed will likely be the next first party western RPG released. But, again, it isn't like Sony has a first party game in the genre. What are we going to say when Avowed or ES6 comes out? Now Xbox has Starfield and this new western RPG, compared to Sony's 0 entries in the genre. What's changed?

 

[rntongo]

That's a very weak lineup. AoE is a niche with zero wow factor. Redfall is mediocre. Killer Instinct AE is niche and old. Hi Fi Rush is a great game but definitely not a system seller. These games barely create enough interest. For the majority they are insignificant. From your list only Forza and Starfield are noteworthy as IPs that define XBOX as a proposal for the market at large.

A Killer Instinct Sequel is one of those non expensive brand defining exceptionally fun titles that oddly enough MSFT has not put money into. $100mn for a KI sequel that they can market for Game pass over the course of 10 years is such a no brainer. Otherwise I agree with you for the most part. But starfield was just not good for me. I was excited for it but I found it terrible. If it had been released on the PS3 or early PS4 maybe it would have been nice but it actually felt like a game made for a time ago. But thats just me.

Sure, Xbox only had Starfield and Forza as tentpole titles this year, with Redfall intended to fall into that role but missing. Playstation only had Spider-man 2. Yet the console with 2x the (good) tentpole releases sold 1/3 the hardware units. and this is the point I keep reiterating. It's not about the games, neither quality nor quantity. It's about the mindshare. Microsoft is failing the mindshare battle, despite releasing quality software.

My only console this gen has been the Series X. Besides Gears Hivebusters, Forza Horizon 5, almost all the other exclusives have either been duds or indefinitely delayed.

• Redfall was down right nasty.
• Halo campaign was mid(Multiplayer was fun but not generation defining, something I could have played on an Xbox One X).
• I laughed at GT 7 for looking and playing mid but Forza motorsport 2023 is not anything to brag about either. In some cases its good in others its not, but most fans of the series have the serious complaints.
• Perfect Dark(another delayed fps).
• Hellblade(was supposed to come out already but still no launch date, otherwise it looks good).
• Starfield is honestly a last gen game through and through the loading times, traversal, gameplay all last gen with some decent textures here and there.
• Hi Fi Rush as others have said is a decent fun game to play but not a system seller or a reason to join a gaming service. It would have been helped if the whole ecosystem was thriving.

Actually I think biggest problem for Xbox is the quality of their software because as the number of exclusives has picked up but the quality has been mid or worse. That should be the no. 1 thing they work on as they bring about their pro or next gen Xbox.

@see colon there is no point to show you because these titles are insignificant to even bother. Either People outside of niche don't care about them or they aren't impressive enough. These aren't the titles XBOX needs to attract attention. It's the same reason why we aren't bringing All-Star Destruction or Astrobot into the discussion

Spot on. I've spent more time playing ninja gaiden and Killer Instinct on Gamepass than on the niche AA titles. Xbox just doesnt have that 360 era or Xbox One launch quality.

Show me Sony's first party RTS game and we can compare it to AOE. Show me Sony's first party fighting game and we can compare it to KI.

With the lack of support KI has received from Xbox they might as well count it as an L. That game is fun and gold but in dire need of investment. Its really a 2012/2013 game. Its embarrassing how they missed funding it.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I agree that MS has a strong lineup. The way I like to put it is that they put out two 8.5s for every 9 that Sony puts out, but having one of those 8.5s be a 9 would make a difference IMO. It's not hopeless for MS, but their last 9 was Forza Horizon 5, two years ago. They're working on it. IMO Starfield will turn into a 9 over time and Hellblade 2 has that potential.

The digital ecosystem gravity wells are significant. Last generation was 120:60 million. It was never realistic for MS to do better than 100:80. A miracle really, given the situation in Japan. As it turns out they're fighting for 120:60 again. It's still within reach as we're 50:25 right now apparently. MS is also doing much better on PC than they were last gen.

MS job is to keep the 60 million fans they have until they are regularly putting 9s out. Then they can push with marketing to try to expand their reach all while trying to get their GP numbers up.

Then they can shadow Sony on hardware until Cloud takes over 10+ years from now.

 

[Davros]

The Outer Worlds

This is free for the next 10 hours if anyone's interested on epic games store
posted dec 26th 5:36am (u.k time)

 

[Nesh]

Every Xbox first party game might be insignificant if recent history is any indication.

If they are not good enough or what people want to play of course they are insignificant.
For example you mentioned KI AE. It's an old game. Just like Sony's exclusive VF Ultimate Showdown. Which is a much better fighting game than KI. Nobody brings that up. Why? Because it's still old and why should people care when they have newer and better Tekken, SF and MK games? PS5 has ts fare share of niche, mediocre or insignificant exclusives too but we aren't making an argument out of those. If we were, that would have been a sign of trying too hard to convince otherwise because it is lacking.

 

[pjbliverpool]

• Starfield is honestly a last gen game through and through the loading times, traversal, gameplay all last gen with some decent textures here and there.

I have to disagree with this. While I haven't played it personally, I've seen my wife playing it for hours, and graphically I've been very impressed with many parts of it. It's certainly inconsistent, and can definitely look average in many scenes (as to be fair, can any game), but in many other scenes it's a very impressive looking title, and I'm saying that in the context of myself currently playing Ratchet and Clank Rifts Apart, and my wife currently playing Pandora. This is all on a high end PC maxed out on a big 21:9 display, but I can't imagine the Series X version looking that much worse. I also don't think loading time can be used as a defining characteristic of whether a game is next gen or not without looking at what it's trying to do.

 

[JPT]

I did not think there would be a mid-gen device this gen, but then of course the leaks/rumours "confirm" that Sony will release one and MS might not.
Initially I did not see why/what it would be for, officially PS4Pro was to hit 4K with the PS4 platform and I really see no similar reason for a Pro this gen. 8K? Will it even be a big thing before PS6? Imo no. Anything else?

So why a PS5Pro? I keep reading on here about more ram and better gpu and what not, but is there really any tech available that will give anything a big enough lift? If its something people on here can measure or few of the fps/lighting savants on here will notice, I doubt that will be worth the investment for any console vendor. It feels like the the discussion about meaningful price reduction on going to newer nodes.

Again better RT is bandied around on here and I know people are getting wet trousers over CP2077 and its implementations, but at the same time, there seems to be a consensus that there is no realism in getting anything like that for consoles at the Pro timeframes that are rumoured.
So again, why?

Can it be that Sony is using a Pro to test tech for PS6? If we look at the PS4Pro it had some bits that might not be in HW in PS5, like checkerboarding hw support, but most likely is emulated in software etc.
Can a PS5Pro do the same for for PS6 in regards to RT? Of course we are not getting PT etc, but they get a headstart in seeing what how it might work in wild ie when it gets into the hands of developers? Or what is good enough without having to have a 4090 like GPU in a console.

With that said, I see people "complain" about RT not begin perfect in that title or lacking in certain ways in another title etc.
But looking at the Avatar interview Dictator did, I think RT is less for getting perfect realistic light, but more for saving time/money in development of game, at least in the begining. If I was a project lead on game I would ask the tech/art people what we could save on doing RT instead of baked and live with worse shadows and what not than the bleeding edge of none RT lightning if it would save us X % of time/resources/money.
But in regards to a Pro console, are you willing to drop to real bad RT for main console and get okish for Pro? Then again Avatar and Alan Wake 2 are good enough right?
Would be interesting to find out what normal people see when they see Pandora and Alan Wake2 etc vs the people on here.
Normal people might be able to see/feel it, but do not know what it is or how to articulate it.

I remember when I joined this board, I read something about jaggies which had never bothered me (I grew up playing on Atari 2600 and painting in delux paint on the amiga) but when I started playing GTA4 and there was those creaping jaggies on the car windows it suddenly annoyed the hell out of me
Are normal people there when it comes to lighting and fps?

Any way, happy holidays to everyone.

 

[rntongo]

I have to disagree with this. While I haven't played it personally, I've seen my wife playing it for hours, and graphically I've been very impressed with many parts of it. It's certainly inconsistent, and can definitely look average in many scenes (as to be fair, can any game), but in many other scenes it's a very impressive looking title, and I'm saying that in the context of myself currently playing Ratchet and Clank Rifts Apart, and my wife currently playing Pandora. This is all on a high end PC maxed out on a big 21:9 display, but I can't imagine the Series X version looking that much worse. I also don't think loading time can be used as a defining characteristic of whether a game is next gen or not without looking at what it's trying to do.

You have to play it, its frustrating the amount of loading screens. It feels like a PS4/Xbox One game with higher quality textures. I was speaking objectively about the loading times which ruin the experience. You enter an elevator, loading screen, you enter a certain room loading screen, you want to travel to another plant, loading screen. Its a mid game for me. But objectively the loading times are really immersion breaking for a 2023 game. I dont know how it got anywhere near 80 on Metacritic with that. They didnt design it around the higher disk throughput. Its not a terrible game as enjoying it is a subjective experience. But its a last gen game(likely using a very old engine which is why it has so many loading screens) thats being released this gen. Built for a time when consoles had harddrives or discs. But with that said, my younger brother played it and finished it, he gravitates been saying he enjoyed it and he didn't. Otherwise glad your wife is enjoying it, there are some aspects of it that are compelling. The idea was great, the execution was mid.

I did not think there would be a mid-gen device this gen, but then of course the leaks/rumours "confirm" that Sony will release one and MS might not.
Initially I did not see why/what it would be for, officially PS4Pro was to hit 4K with the PS4 platform and I really see no similar reason for a Pro this gen. 8K? Will it even be a big thing before PS6? Imo no. Anything else?

As soon as I saw the GPU specs of the PS5 I was certain there was going to be a PS5 pro. Like 100% certain. It wasnt overly powerful but powerful enough to usher in the new gen as the base configuration on which games would be developed. In hindsight was exceptionally smart from Sony. Consider the longer software development cycles for games and a pro console with higher fps performance makes sense. People are going to want to play GTA 6 at 4K and higher fps. Thats going to be the play on pro consoles, you get higher performance. And they're going to sell out. Sony is basically doing what it did and worked well with the PS4. They're going to drop the OG PS5 significantly in price then release the pro console at the current PS5 price or around there and then ride out the last 3-4 years of the gen offering gamers excellent performance. Everyone gets 4K gaming so whether its the base PS5 or the pro you're both playing 4K games. The difference is fps.

 

[rntongo]

If they are not good enough or what people want to play of course they are insignificant.
For example you mentioned KI AE. It's an old game. Just like Sony's exclusive VF Ultimate Showdown. Which is a much better fighting game than KI. Nobody brings that up. Why? Because it's still old and why should people care when they have newer and better Tekken, SF and MK games? PS5 has ts fare share of niche, mediocre or insignificant exclusives too but we aren't making an argument out of those. If we were, that would have been a sign of trying too hard to convince otherwise because it is lacking.

Solid points. Funny thing all MSFT has to do is put like $100mn in KI and they'll have a solid title for Gamepass for another decade. Its a good comparison comparing it to VF Ultimate Showdown. Both very old games at this point no matter how MSFT may try to spin the Anniversary edition. I enjoy playing it and its one of those games I play with my siblings. But we spend most of our time on the new MK(MK 1), Tekken 8 demo, Injustice 2, will get SF6 when it gets cheaper. We play KI when playing other older classics like MK X. Bottom line is we cant spend as much time with KI because of how old it is despite being really fun. Its not worth bringing up as an achievement for this gen.

And this is the problem with Xbox. Bringing up really old titles or very niche AA titles that people dont really care about and putting so much marketing on them. Sony actually puts more emphasis on delivering actual amazing gameplay and graphics. Xbox has gems like Quantum Break and Ryse and KI but they dont invest them or their sequels. When Sony sees how well something works they build on that, When Xbox realized players didnt like the movie tie in scenes of Quantum Break they simply quit the whole thing despite it having amazing gameplay, graphics and story.

One thing Sony really needs to work on now is restarting the Killzone and Socom franchises. Because they're really lacking in the shooter space. Those would be some nice system sellers on the PS5 pro.

 

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If they are not good enough or what people want to play of course they are insignificant.
For example you mentioned KI AE. It's an old game. Just like Sony's exclusive VF Ultimate Showdown. Which is a much better fighting game than KI. Nobody brings that up. Why? Because it's still old and why should people care when they have newer and better Tekken, SF and MK games? PS5 has ts fare share of niche, mediocre or insignificant exclusives too but we aren't making an argument out of those. If we were, that would have been a sign of trying too hard to convince otherwise because it is lacking.

VF US isn't a first party Playstation game. I'm only talking about first party releases. Nobody brought up Virtua fighter in this conversation because it's out of the scope of a discussion about first party output. The only time I brought up KI when you asked what 7 games were exclusive, and when I made the point that Xbox has a more diverse first party library. But you seam to think I'm saying all of XGS output are all perfect games, when all I'm saying is that Xbox has a diverse first party time up, with plenty of "good" titles and more releases this year than Playstation. But that hasn't been enough to capture the mindshare of consumers.

 

[Nesh]

VF US isn't a first party Playstation game. I'm only talking about first party releases. Nobody brought up Virtua fighter in this conversation because it's out of the scope of a discussion about first party output. The only time I brought up KI when you asked what 7 games were exclusive, and when I made the point that Xbox has a more diverse first party library. But you seam to think I'm saying all of XGS output are all perfect games, when all I'm saying is that Xbox has a diverse first party time up, with plenty of "good" titles and more releases this year than Playstation. But that hasn't been enough to capture the mindshare of consumers.

And I pointed "diversity" doesn't have any value if it's consisting of rereleases of old games, niche, and mediocre or bad games. In addition, what diversifies a console are the total of exclusives while their quality and level of interest adds value. Whether they are first or third doesn't make much of a difference. Hence why people pointed both first and non-first party AAA exclusives as well in the discussion.

 

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And I pointed "diversity" doesn't have any value if it's consisting of rereleases of old games, niche, and mediocre or bad games.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, then. As I contend that Forza, Hifi Rush and Starfield are all good games. And while you can dismiss Hifi Rush as being too niche, I don't think racing games nor western RPGs are niche genres. Forza is clearly one of the best racing games released this year. And Starfield falls behind BG3 in the WRPG genre, it's still a good entry in the genre.