Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[eastmen]

What you are outlining is about what happened with PS5 having only RDNA1 and XSX using 'true' RDNA2. Now what actually happened is Sony used the most important RDNA2 feature (hardware accelerated intersection RT) and ignored the rest (the "RDNA2 hardware VRS") because they knew game engines wouldn't need it. And they were 100% right as history proved. RDNA2 hardware VRS is an half-baked feature (textures get blocky, now way around it) and devs actually have better results by doing their own software implementations (COD), and avoiding blocky textures by specifically not using the new hardware block.

And the fact that MS already announced they wouln't do a mid-gen console should be another hint of them knowing that "true RDNA 4" features wouldn't be enough to counter PS5 Pro console which will supposedly (from leaker and patents) use similarly the most important feature of RDNA4: hardware accelerated ray traversal.

It's not really the same since MS wasn't in a place to take advantage of any additional hardware features that the xbox series might have over the ps5. The ps5 is also the lead platform since the previous consoles have sold more than double what ms has and the current console is double. We may still see advantages in the series consoles over the playstation 5 as more of MS's games come out specifically targeting that hardware. All the games that have come out or will be out started development on previous consoles and in some cases like starfield are 8 years in development.

You'd have to believe that the changes between rdna2/3 and possibly beyond rdna 4 (since we are talking 2026) would be insignificant. We already know that ray tracing is extremely poor on rdna 2/3 and we don't actually know if or when AMD will be able to fix that .

 

[Seanspeed]

I think it's obvious, though. If you have a PS5Pro, it plays PS5 games, just better. A PS6 would play PS6 games. Perhaps it's just a marketing difference, but if they launch a PS6, they can make games that don't have to target the PS5 spec at all if they choose not to.

But they're talking about Microsoft doing a 'next gen' machine in response to Sony's PS5 Pro.

And even Sony is getting away from doing next gen exclusives early on now.

 

[fehu]

You don't think that Sony constantly releasing new systems would hurt the brand ?

- Rule 1 of the console market: Whatever sony pushes something to the market, people will buy it and be happy
- Rule 2 of the console market: Whatever sony pushes something to the market, people will buy it and be happy
- Rule 3 of the console market: Someone yells this is microsoft's year, microsoft is over.
- Rule 4 of the console market: Only two winning consoles in the market, none of them can be an xbox.
- Rule 5 of the console market: One console segment at a time, unless you are sony or nintendo.
- Rule 6 of the console market: No god of war, no zelda, you can't win.
- Rule 7 of the console market: A console generation will go on as long as sony sells that console.
- Rule 8 of the console market: If this is your first console generation, you'll have to... to... I can't force a joke for this.

 

[eastmen]

- Rule 1 of the console market: Whatever sony pushes something to the market, people will buy it and be happy
- Rule 2 of the console market: Whatever sony pushes something to the market, people will buy it and be happy
- Rule 3 of the console market: Someone yells this is microsoft's year, microsoft is over.
- Rule 4 of the console market: Only two winning consoles in the market, none of them can be an xbox.
- Rule 5 of the console market: One console segment at a time, unless you are sony or nintendo.
- Rule 6 of the console market: No god of war, no zelda, you can't win.
- Rule 7 of the console market: A console generation will go on as long as sony sells that console.
- Rule 8 of the console market: If this is your first console generation, you'll have to... to... I can't force a joke for this.

Not sure if that is always true. Sony has a legacy of failed products just like any other company. playstation may be a bit insulated from failure but I am not sure how many console releases sony can go through without in rapid succession before they hit a fatigue point in the audience.

Ps5 pro within 1-2 years of ps6 could be pushing it a bit much.

I also see the sarcasm and agree with you


I do find it funny that someone suggested that a ps5 pro in 2024 would have 2026 gpu technology in it. Why even bother waiting for 2026 to put it in their pc parts lol. If amd would have been able to do that wouldn't they just skip rdna 3 and 4 and go right to 5 or maybe even 6 lol

 

[Seanspeed]

It's true the market is very generous to Playstation. They built up a level of goodwill and dominating mindshare from PS1+PS2 generations that has led to them being basically defacto winners. PS4 generation also will have helped them reinforce this again.

Thing is - I think this generation, Sony is not actually doing that well(in terms of actual strategy and quality) and I'm not sure when that will change. Their 1st party output has been 'ok' but not stellar like on PS4, and I get the sense that Jim Ryan and their new strategy of prioritizing live service games is going to mean many more misses and damage of the brand. But we're seeing with PS5 sales that it doesn't seem to matter. Consumer spending is still going crazy and people just desperately want Playstation 5. So they're gonna do really well financially, even when/if people start dinging them for not living up to last generation and start realizing Jim Ryan kinda sucks.

And Microsoft will just let it happen, because they've already accepted defeat. Phil Spencer doesn't believe that great games sells consoles, which is idiotic, so they're basically just trying to convince themselves they can develop their own niche, but without competing. Which is bad, because we need them to want to compete harder and at least make some effort to win.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

- Rule 1 of the console market: Whatever sony pushes something to the market, people will buy it and be happy
- Rule 2 of the console market: Whatever sony pushes something to the market, people will buy it and be happy
- Rule 3 of the console market: Someone yells this is microsoft's year, microsoft is over.
- Rule 4 of the console market: Only two winning consoles in the market, none of them can be an xbox.
- Rule 5 of the console market: One console segment at a time, unless you are sony or nintendo.
- Rule 6 of the console market: No god of war, no zelda, you can't win.
- Rule 7 of the console market: A console generation will go on as long as sony sells that console.
- Rule 8 of the console market: If this is your first console generation, you'll have to... to... I can't force a joke for this.

What in the world.....

 

[Dictator]

I hope MS skips mid-gen refresh (like they say they will) and then just dumps AMD for a radically different next gen console. Nvidia perhaps and not even x86 - something actually interesting and ambitious.

 

[fehu]

My opinion.
Compared to pcs of the time both xbox one and ps4 were disappointing, a refresh was technically possible and helped to retain some user.
This time both consoles looked very competent at launch, and still can compete well with a low/middle gaming pc.
The only way that they can really improve is better hw support for fsr, but at the moment can't see people running to spend 1000$ on a gpu to obtain some more frames and ditch their console.
We are in two different scenarios, so I can see why ms doesn't mind investing in a new midgen upgrade, hope at least in a refresh like the one s.
Sony on the other hand has a fanbase willing to buy their console at double the street price, and even if they officially increased the price, they are still selling any one that can produce at a faster rate than ps4. If you take into account the production problems, is a lot.
They are in the position to launch a midgen at 750$ with roughly double the gpu performances, and people will flock to buy it. Then after 3 years launch the ps6 and people will be happy to sell others organs to buy it.

 

[Karamazov]

Or maybe we should just stop talking gens but now there are iterations, like in the GPU and phone industry, people willing to change can every 3-4 years, others still have the choice to upgrade later, when they want.
In the 80-90s there were many more console releases, with more competitors.

 

[mpg1]

I hope MS skips mid-gen refresh (like they say they will) and then just dumps AMD for a radically different next gen console. Nvidia perhaps and not even x86 - something actually interesting and ambitious.

An Nvidia console from Microsoft would be an interesting and bold move but I'm skeptical it happens.

I just don't see Nvidia caring enough about the console market to deliver a chip that competes economically with whatever AMD can.

The only thing I could see is if MS sold Nvidia on the idea it would help them advance their CPU/APU products and market share.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

I hope MS skips mid-gen refresh (like they say they will) and then just dumps AMD for a radically different next gen console. Nvidia perhaps and not even x86 - something actually interesting and ambitious.

I'd love that for the fun of console uniqueness, but I'm not terribly convinced of a move away from x86.

I'd love to see MS lean into their PC talent some more: the next XBox is just the equivalent of next generations Series S, but has a slot for a dGPU. Opening up the gate for any and all GPU's would be too chaotic, but I think there's scope for "XBox Certified" GPU's from various vendors.

No need for multiple SKU's, so the supply chain's simpler and manufacturing costs lower, with all of the benefits of a multi tier system.

 

[eastmen]

Or maybe we should just stop talking gens but now there are iterations, like in the GPU and phone industry, people willing to change can every 3-4 years, others still have the choice to upgrade later, when they want.
In the 80-90s there were many more console releases, with more competitors.

You would think that but look at all the hate directed at the series s , a console with the same generation of cpu/gpu as the ps5/xsx . Now imagine the shit storm if a new spec console came out every year or two.

Cell phone owners were conditioned to yearly releases from the very fist phones. Console gamers were not

 

[Karamazov]

the hate on forums you mean ? Because it seems to sell pretty decently, and i'm happy with mine.
we hear the same kind of hatred against PS5 or Series X also.
in the end it's all about money for vendors, if they think there is a market for these, they'll make them.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

the hate on forums you mean ? Because it seems to sell pretty decently, and i'm happy with mine.
we hear the same kind of hatred against PS5 or Series X also.
in the end it's all about money for vendors, if they think there is a market for these, they'll make them.

The "hate" or frustrations from developers is valid. The Series S is great in concept for both Microsoft business and value oriented consumers, but since game development depends on high collaboration and buy-in between hardware manufacturer and development studios, that conceptual value becomes severely cut down by a machine that often impedes the game maker's vision. And before I'm called a platform troll or the like, the same goes for the PS3.

Back on topic. No Microsoft will not construct a mid-gen refresh. They are calling it quits this gen as far as hardware is concerned. PS5 Pro on the other hand is real and it will be a beast. Key DF personnel are on record against it (which is weird for a tech platform imo) but history tells us they'll come around once they experience its capabilities.

 

[pjbliverpool]

PS5 Pro on the other hand is real and it will be a beast.

By what standard? The rumoured spec put it around 6800XT/3080 level launching during the era of AMD's 8xxx series and Nvidias 50x0 series.

 

[Remij]

I hope MS skips mid-gen refresh (like they say they will) and then just dumps AMD for a radically different next gen console. Nvidia perhaps and not even x86 - something actually interesting and ambitious.

Yeah. I mean if you're not going to do something different and unique, why bother? It's boring having the two consoles be the same thing.

AMD ain't pushing any boundaries these days.. they just follow what others have done.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

PS5 Pro on the other hand is real and it will be a beast. Key DF personnel are on record against it (which is weird for a tech platform imo) but history tells us they'll come around once they experience its capabilities.

This is such a weird way for anyone over 15 years of age to talk

 

[Lurkmass]

An Nvidia console from Microsoft would be an interesting and bold move but I'm skeptical it happens.

I just don't see Nvidia caring enough about the console market to deliver a chip that competes economically with whatever AMD can.

The only thing I could see is if MS sold Nvidia on the idea it would help them advance their CPU/APU products and market share.

Would decimate backwards compatibility for sure with such a move and would obsolete their cloud game streaming infrastructure currently ...

 

[I'mDudditz!]

By what standard? The rumoured spec put it around 6800XT/3080 level launching during the era of AMD's 8xxx series and Nvidias 50x0 series.

By $500 console standards. You get a lot of performance and more importantly lowest level optimizations for the money. Nice idea to get a sizeable performance boost for $500 every 3-4yrs or so. I don't really put stock in on paper spec comparisons because I think dedicated RT cores and possibly AI upscaling will provide better results beyond 6800xt and 3080. Maybe CPU gets a useful uplift as well. So no, I'm not necessarily comparing a PS5 Pro to PC cards that release same year, but I am interested to see how it ends up comparing to hypothetical 8700xt and 5060ti class cards.

This is such a weird way for anyone over 15 years of age to talk

Why, because I use the word "beast"? Oh, the horror! Some of you love to start drama for absolutely no reason.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Why, because I use the word "beast"? Oh, the horror! Some of you love to start drama for absolutely no reason.

It's more the insinuation that "Digital Foundry shall be ashamed by their words and deeds" because they weren't sufficiently excited about the prospect of a new console 2 years out when the possibility was brought up, especially after the talk came so soon after Sony had just increased prices in territories outside the US. It's completely reasonable to think it's not a wise move when most people were struggling to still obtain a PS5.

Also, how is it 'weird' for a tech platform to not automatically default to promoting rumoured specs of a hypothetical product? Like I guess by the standard of youtube gaming channels it may be 'weird', but that being the default reaction should not be expected or favoured - any product is judged by the combination of its tech and price. When this was initially discussed it was eminently reasonable to assume this would be a new upper tier of product, vs replacing the existing PS5's price which it may end up doing when it's released, so of course their opinions might change as we get closer to release and we have tangible specs to actually judge the value of it. You don't know it's 'capabilities' any more than they do at this point.