Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[davis.anthony]

Absolutely nothing has changed.

Again, consoles determine what is next gen by definition.

It has changed, RT is making it easier to enhance PC versions of games than ever before and we're already seeing this happening.

PC has been next gen since 2018 with the launch of RTX and over the next few years even the baseline will look better than what PS5 and XSX will offer.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Sure. But at what price? I bought my 2070 super for under 500 dollars. Now you're paying over 800 for a 4070ti. I keep wanting to upgrade my PC but the current prices just make it totally unjustifiable as everything I do on my PC apart from gaming can be done on a low end system (currently using a 11th gen nuc i3 as my daily).

So if I want to buy a decent system I'm spending at least 1500. If I could get a 60fps/decent ray tracing settings console for 700 that would be a much more attractive option. It doesn't have to beat PC, just close enough with a big enough price difference is enough.

 

[davis.anthony]

Sure. But at what price? I bought my 2070 super for under 500 dollars. Now you're paying over 800 for a 4070ti.

The 4070ti offers a better price to performance ratio than the 2070 did at release.

And I have zero regrets moving from a 3060ti to a 4070ti.

So if I want to buy a decent system I'm spending at least 1500.

You can build a PC for double the cost of a console and get double the price/perf ratio in RT games.

If I could get a 60fps/decent ray tracing settings console for 700 that would be a much more attractive option. It doesn't have to beat PC, just close enough with a big enough price difference is enough.

If RT performance is important to you (It is for me) than consoles are incredibly poor value in terms of price/performance ratio.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I don't think you've read what I said? I'm saying that I would be interested in a pro model that is a couple hundred dollars more expensive but does deliver good ray tracing performance as, for me, the current prices of PC hardware make PC gaming unattractive.

Whether that is possible I do not know.

 

[BRiT]

MVG's take on mid-gen rumors:

 

[Seanspeed]

It has changed, RT is making it easier to enhance PC versions of games than ever before and we're already seeing this happening.

PC has been next gen since 2018 with the launch of RTX and over the next few years even the baseline will look better than what PS5 and XSX will offer.

Nothing has changed. If the XSX/PS5 never released, there'd be no next gen. Games would continue to be built for PS4/XB1 as a baseline and some additional RT modes on PC wouldn't be some generational difference in visuals. You need the core graphics to improve a lot more than just some better reflections or better lighting propagation to get a full 'next gen' leap.

I dont even know why I'm having to argue something so obvious on a forum like this. I'd expect this from a PC gaming sub on Reddit or something, but not here.

 

[troyan]

Nothing has changed. If the XSX/PS5 never released, there'd be no next gen. Games would continue to be built for PS4/XB1 as a baseline and some additional RT modes on PC wouldn't be some generational difference in visuals. You need the core graphics to improve a lot more than just some better reflections or better lighting propagation to get a full 'next gen' leap.

I dont even know why I'm having to argue something so obvious on a forum like this. I'd expect this from a PC gaming sub on Reddit or something, but not here.

That must be the reason why Control looks better than anything released on these consoles... Or Cyberpunk with Raytracing or Portal RTX or even Metro Exodus EE with DDGI...

 

[davis.anthony]

Nothing has changed.

Yes it has.

If the XSX/PS5 never released, there'd be no next gen.

They've been out 2 years so where is this next gen?

Games would continue to be built for PS4/XB1 as a baseline.

Is having Series-S any better?

and some additional RT modes on PC wouldn't be some generational difference in visuals.

Dying Light 2 disagrees with you there.

You need the core graphics to improve a lot more than just some better reflections or better lighting propagation to get a full 'next gen' leap.

I would tone down your expectations about this next gen leap you're talking about.

Series-X is barely 2.5x faster than One-X, a console that was struggling to run last gen games at decent resolution at 30fps.

New rendering features and techniques will only get you so far and both next gen consoles aren't anywhere close to the same upgrade PS4 was over PS3.

 

[Seanspeed]

That must be the reason why Control looks better than anything released on these consoles... Or Cyberpunk with Raytracing or Portal RTX or even Metro Exodus EE with DDGI...

I was about to post in agreement, thinking you were being sarcastic, but then I was taken by the idea that you might actually be serious....

 

[troyan]

I was about to post in agreement, thinking you were being sarcastic, but then I was taken by the idea that you might actually be serious....

Show a better looking game than Control without any kind of SSRs artefacts. Ever played Metro Exodus EE on the PC with the Extreme setting? Look so much better than any game on these consoles with open worlds.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yes it has.

They've been out 2 years so where is this next gen?

Is having Series-S any better?

Dying Light 2 disagrees with you there.

I would tone down your expectations about this next gen leap you're talking about.

Series-X is barely 2.5x faster than One-X, a console that was struggling to run last gen games at decent resolution at 30fps.

New rendering features and techniques will only get you so far and both next gen consoles aren't anywhere close to the same upgrade PS4 was over PS3.

"Where is this next gen?" - developers have leant extremely hard into cross-gen development to an unprecedented degree this generation. It's simply taken a much longer time before developers are making the switch, and we've still seen very few titles really being built with the new consoles in mind from the get-go. This again, is extremely obvious to everyone, but you are going to refuse to acknowledge it.

Series S is a console for people who dont care about technical aspects. It will not be the baseline for this generation, plus the main weak aspect of it is something that is more easily scalable(rather than say, CPU demands). Again, something I'm 100% sure you understand fine.

Dying Light 2 does not go from looking last gen to next gen purely with ray tracing on. I mean, you've really gotta be kidding me. It's a decent RT mode, but go look at Uncharted 3 running on PS3 and then Uncharted 4 on PS4 to grasp what an actual next gen leap looks like. Better lighting alone cannot achieve this sort of leap.

"I would tone down your expectations about this next generation" - no, I wont, because I know how this stuff works. If you honestly think some last gen games with ray tracing will be the 'best' these consoles can do, I promise you your takes will age absolutely horribly.

Man, you are seriously exhausting having to argue with, and I get the impression sometimes that is by design.

 

[Seanspeed]

Show a better looking game than Control without any kind of SSRs artefacts. Ever played Metro Exodus EE on the PC with the Extreme setting? Look so much better than any game on these consoles with open worlds.

What an incredibly odd qualifier 'without any kind of SSR artifacts', as if that is literally the most important thing in the world. Graphics and technical impressiveness are a package deal, not defined by any singular feature, much less specific quality level of such feature. lol

Something like Plague Tale Requiem, without any RT at all, looks very obviously more technically impressive as a whole than Control. Control is a last gen game, and with RT, it just looks like a last gen game with RT. Same with Metro Exodus. They're enhanced versions of last gen games, but will get outshined massively by countless next gen titles that will release(if not some that have already released, as I already mentioned one).

 

[davis.anthony]

Dying Light 2 does not go from looking last gen to next gen purely with ray tracing on. I mean, you've really gotta be kidding me. It's a decent RT mode, but go look at Uncharted 3 running on PS3 and then Uncharted 4 on PS4 to grasp what an actual next gen leap looks like. Better lighting alone cannot achieve this sort of leap.

Yes it does.

It some scenes it goes from looking like a game to looking photorealistic.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yes it does.

It some scenes it goes from looking like a game to looking photorealistic.

I just cant take posts like this seriously. I get the impression you will honestly say anything to avoid losing an argument.

 

[troyan]

What an incredibly odd qualifier 'without any kind of SSR artifacts', as if that is literally the most important thing in the world. Graphics and technically impressiveness are a package deal, not defined by any singular feature, much less specific quality level of such feature. lol

Lighting defines image quality. Control's indoors are so far ahead of everything else that this game was Next-Gen before Next-Gen was even a topic.

Something like Plague Tale Requiem, without any RT at all, looks very obviously more technically impressive as a whole than Control. Control is a last gen game, and with RT, it just looks like a last gen game with RT. Same with Metro Exodus. They're enhanced versions of last gen games, but will get outshined massively by countless next gen titles that will release(if not some that have already released, as I already mentioned one).

And The Witcher 3 Next Gen is only possible on the PC. What does this mean? We are now in the next Next-Gen phase?

 

[davis.anthony]

I just cant take posts like this seriously. I get the impression you will honestly say anything to avoid losing an argument.

I've posted many a screenshot of Dying Light 2 in the 'What are you playing now' thread and at certain times of the day it looks a generation ahead of the console version.

Have you played the game maxed with all RT on?

 

[Globalisateur]

MVG's take on mid-gen rumors:

What a bunch of nonsense his analysis was! I couldn't finish watching this because this guy is so completley out of touch with the gaming world.
First he is trying to change history in order to fit his narrative
"[On PS4] Native 1080p gaming was an outlier" Wrong. Most games were actually 1080p on PS4. The worse is that he was saying that while showing FF15 which is 1080p on PS4! I think he must have used XB1 to fit in his argument but the whole discussion is about Playstation, not Xbox.

"And then there was no use case for PS5 Pro other than I want to have more power"
Wrong. On current gen people can play a few games with RT + 60fps (more so on PS5 thanks to Insomniac) and they want those options in others games. This is a recurrent complaint now in a big group en enthusiast players (those who would definitely buy a Pro).

"If I want to ask you guys what people want with PS5 Pro, most people would say I want 8k output"
But nobody is asking for this! Where does it come from? I litteraly have never ever read that in any forums / social media.

"Or Maybe native 4K at locked 60fps"
Very few are asking for this. On PC and consoles almost everybody are already used to reconstruction. People now want better IQ (like in RE4, Dead Space) or better framerate, not "native" resolutions. Players know the future is with reconstruted resolution + VRR. Anybody talking about "native 4k locked 60fps" is completely out of the loop. Is he even a gamer?

 

[BRiT]

Is he even a gamer?

He is a Game Developer (and stated so in the video).

 

[DavidGraham]

Absolutely nothing has changed.

Disagree with this, PC is next gen since 2018, great titles like Cyberpunk, Battlefield V, Metro Exodus, Control, Minecraft RTX, Portal RTX, Dying Light 2, and Warhammer Darktide are proof enough of that.

Path Traced games, mods and demos specifically signaled the complete detachment of PC from consoles. Now even decade old games are path traced even beyond new gen graphics, and it's only going to get better from there.

 

[Globalisateur]

He is a Game Developer (and stated so in the video).

So he is not a gamer.