Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2015]

[dobwal]

Sorry, misunderstood ... By the way, I wouldn't mind a small training on how to determine how many AF from a screenshot?

Take a PC game that has a long brick or very detailed wall. Stand near the edge of the wall (like looking around the corner) to create very oblique angles at very close proximity. It will make it more obvious at how oblique the angle of geometry has to be before 16X kicks in.

It better than looking at ground textures because at 16X AF you have to stare off into the scene where blurring or loss of detail is naturally expected.

 

[AlNom]

Wouldn't it have been better to scale back the 40'ish some cars during competition (maybe 25-30), on both consoles? Especially trying to hit 60fps...

I'm sure there are a lot of things they could tweak with time.

---

Actually, given that it's mostly a landscape-view, they ought to try out the ol' anamorphic upscale.

 

[Cyan]

Yep.

The screenshot capture is capturing the frontbuffer before it is being sent to the TV, in pure full-range RGB. When using limited mode, it appears the full-range game output is converted to limited just before leaving the HDMI.

That sounds very interesting... For general use I prefer Standard RGB, because whiter than whites and blacker than black values are lost in some cases if you use PC RGB (for instance, Halo The Master Chief Collection, the game itself rendered in real tie, looks SO fine at PC RGB, but video cinematics are plagued by black crush because they were rendered at STandard RGB I guess) :/ , so while I'd probably go with PC RGB for general use if I could, I don't use it all the time because of the hassle. Not much of a hassle tbh, and I think it looks better than Standard RGB, but Halo 2 (from Halo TMCC) cinematics are quite difficult to see, lots of detail lost. I completed the game so I will probably return to PC RGB...

As for the DF article, I gave my opinion in the Project Cars thread already.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Digital Foundry Face-Off: Mortal Kombat X

Usually, the PC version of a game manages to brute force its way to the top spot with higher graphics presets, resolutions, and frame-rates compared to consoles. However, this isn't quite the case with Mortal Kombat X. The mild boost in texture decal resolution adds an extra layer of refinement to its visuals, but the game is partially let down by the 30fps performance cap during X-rays and fatalities, which serves little purpose on a constantly evolving platform.​

 

[Cyan]

Is it me or this capture shows black crush? (PC version)

On the framerate, I wonder why companies don't use a dynamic framebuffer to keep a flawless 60 fps framerate all the time.

 

[Cyan]

It's probably not that simple. How do you determine when to increase resolution?

Well, I would ask the new CoD: Advanced Warfare how they achieved it, they use a dynamic framebuffer and it works like a charm. Either them or iD and Rage.

Halo 2 (The Master Chief Collection) seems to use a dynamic framebuffer too, I noticed it the most while playing the mission Metropolis. (3rd stage of the campaign) Lots of smoke and stuff, when on the Scorpion if you shoot at distant enemies the framebuffer uses a so low resolution, it's very distracting.

Doom 3 also used a dynamic framebuffer on the X360 and it turned out fine. Sometimes it happens even on levels where there aren't enemies around, for instance inside a level where you move around on platforms that move on rails.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm playing COD:AW right now and I must say, I'm a bit shocked at how amazing it looks, while running at 60fps at full res? Just amazing. Sure they don't use all the super duper effects some other games have, but when the final product looks this good - some great design choices - and runs this well, you start wondering whether we're not better off like this on games that would allow these design choices.

 

[Cyan]

Gotta mention that when I say that Halo 2 TMCC version uses a very low framebuffer resolution and possibly a dynamic one I meant ONLY for particles, especially when you are driving the Scorpion in the Metropolis stage and confronting foes in the distance.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

MKX is the only game on PS4 I need to raise the 'brightness' slider to get a correct calibration image.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

MKX is the only game on PS4 I need to raise the 'brightness' slider to get a correct calibration image.

Are you sure you're not wearing sunglasses? It has been bright lately.

 

[AlNom]

Gotta mention that when I say that Halo 2 TMCC version uses a very low framebuffer resolution and possibly a dynamic one I meant ONLY for particles, especially when you are driving the Scorpion in the Metropolis stage and confronting foes in the distance.

It's not dynamic as far as I know.

The alpha/transparencies are indeed lower res.

The cool thing is that the smoke receives shadows.

 

[OlegSH]

Is it me or this capture shows black crush? (PC version)

Is this realtime rendering or video?
I completed MKX's story yesterday and I am sure most of scenes are captured on video because realtime fight scenes have much higher resolution and the same gamma as on consoles

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Are you sure you're not wearing sunglasses? It has been bright lately.

Shades off for both images. Lighter of the two is two clicks of brightness. Look at the car rim on the right.

 

[Cyan]

It's not dynamic as far as I know.

The alpha/transparencies are indeed lower res.

The cool thing is that the smoke receives shadows.

Do you have the console then? If so, please add me.

I hadn't noticed that before. On another note, I don't know if you played Halo 3 TMCC version, but remembering the Xbox 360 version, I seem to recall that when Scarabas exploded they left a very blinding halo behind, everything was SO bright. Has it been tonned down in the Xbox One version?

I prefer the new version of Halo 3, overall. The framerate is just perfect.

Is this realtime rendering or video?
I completed MKX's story yesterday and I am sure most of scenes are captured on video because realtime fight scenes have much higher resolution and the same gamma as on consoles

It has to be video. Eurogamer staff noticed it too. This is EXACTLY the same problem with Halo 2 TMCC version when you switch to the PC RGB setting on the Xbox One, the game looks great in real time either at Standard RGB or PC RGB of course, but the details in the new cutscenes are almost impossible to discern because of the black crush (PC RGB) of the video. If you switch to Standard RGB everything goes smoothly, there is no black crush at all in the cutscenes.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Digital Foundry Face-Off: Grand Theft Auto 5 on PC

Putting aside the stutter issues in its v-synced mode, Grand Theft Auto 5 is a quality release on PC. Despite the game's staggered launch, almost 18 months after last-gen versions, the PC at least gets the attention it deserves. Every version to date has impressed, but in the PC's case we have the true pack leader, and its GPU benchmarks at peak settings are sure to give upcoming GPUs firm workout. More than that, Rockstar's multi-platform wizardry here sets a high bar of expectation for whatever project it pursues next.​

 

[dobwal]

Do you have the console then? If so, please add me.

I hadn't noticed that before. On another note, I don't know if you played Halo 3 TMCC version, but remembering the Xbox 360 version, I seem to recall that when Scarabas exploded they left a very blinding halo behind, everything was SO bright. Has it been tonned down in the Xbox One version?

I prefer the new version of Halo 3, overall. The framerate is just perfect.

It has to be video. Eurogamer staff noticed it too. This is EXACTLY the same problem with Halo 2 TMCC version when you switch to the PC RGB setting on the Xbox One, the game looks great in real time either at Standard RGB or PC RGB of course, but the details in the new cutscenes are almost impossible to discern because of the black crush (PC RGB) of the video. If you switch to Standard RGB everything goes smoothly, there is no black crush at all in the cutscenes.

I thought I read somewhere that nvidia will output limited range RGB over HDMI by default and for some reason this behavior has found its way into some display port setups. When nvidia released its 347.09 beta driver it added a dynamic range setting to make it possible to output full RGB for these outlying cases.

 

[AlNom]

Do you have the console then? If so, please add me.

Just going off a bunch of footage I've come across. My Live sub ends next month anyway, and I don't plan on continuing on with it.

On another note, I don't know if you played Halo 3 TMCC version, but remembering the Xbox 360 version, I seem to recall that when Scarabas exploded they left a very blinding halo behind, everything was SO bright. Has it been tonned down in the Xbox One version?

There are some gamma/bloom lighting issues that probably weren't accounted for in porting the 360 lighting pipeline over to the new HW.

There are still other issues with TMCC version like audio and... I'm sure @HTupolev has a more complete list. XD

 

[AlNom]

Digital Foundry Face-Off: Grand Theft Auto 5 on PC

Putting aside the stutter issues in its v-synced mode, Grand Theft Auto 5 is a quality release on PC. Despite the game's staggered launch, almost 18 months after last-gen versions, the PC at least gets the attention it deserves. Every version to date has impressed, but in the PC's case we have the true pack leader, and its GPU benchmarks at peak settings are sure to give upcoming GPUs firm workout. More than that, Rockstar's multi-platform wizardry here sets a high bar of expectation for whatever project it pursues next.​

Nice shadow comparison. Not sure I really care for any of the options due to the abruptness of the cascade quality. Soft/Softer might be an ok compromise for least distraction. :3

Tessellation looks goofy.

 

[HTupolev]

Just going off a bunch of footage I've come across.

From what I can tell, Cyan might be right. I've definitely seen spark showers doing things like suddenly changing from small bright dots to big orange squares, that sort of thing. First noticed it while using the Scorpion's machine gun in the tunnel at the end of the Metropolis bridge.

There are some gamma/bloom lighting issues that probably weren't accounted for in porting the 360 lighting pipeline over to the new HW.

There are still other issues with TMCC version like audio and... I'm sure @HTupolev has a more complete list. XD

What I'm aware of:

1-Brightness curves are definitely different, typically producing a less vibrant appearance. This seems like it might be in effect prior to post-processing, because there are cases where small emissive stuff seems to have a bit of visible bloom in the new version where it doesn't in the old.
In a few spots, banding is exacerbated in the new version; the sky on Floodgate looks particularly bad.

2-Audio is messed up. People using surround sound have issues with the channels being scrambled. And the mixing and filtering is somewhat off in general.

3-Dynamic shadows have a small offset that causes them to not be drawn to the left/upper sides of near geometry. It can give objects weird outlines. Look at the shadow of the tank in this screenshot to see what I mean.

4-Some stuff on Sandbox doesn't seem to receive lighting.

And then you have the MCC infrastructural stuff like not being able to save replays, and not being able to change gametypes in Forge (this one is supposedly being fixed soon).

 

[Cyan]

From what I can tell, Cyan might be right. I've definitely seen spark showers doing things like suddenly changing from small bright dots to big orange squares, that sort of thing. First noticed it while using the Scorpion's machine gun in the tunnel at the end of the Metropolis bridge.


What I'm aware of:

1-Brightness curves are definitely different, typically producing a less vibrant appearance. This seems like it might be in effect prior to post-processing, because there are cases where small emissive stuff seems to have a bit of visible bloom in the new version where it doesn't in the old.
In a few spots, banding is exacerbated in the new version; the sky on Floodgate looks particularly bad.

2-Audio is messed up. People using surround sound have issues with the channels being scrambled. And the mixing and filtering is somewhat off in general.

3-Dynamic shadows have a small offset that causes them to not be drawn to the left/upper sides of near geometry. It can give objects weird outlines. Look at the shadow of the tank in this screenshot to see what I mean.

4-Some stuff on Sandbox doesn't seem to receive lighting.

And then you have the MCC infrastructural stuff like not being able to save replays, and not being able to change gametypes in Forge (this one is supposedly being fixed soon).

The effect happens most of the time, but I noticed it the most exactly at the same exact point you are mentioning, by the end of the Metropolis bridge.

The feeling you get from it is that the game seems to be rendered at a very low resolution where distant vehicles explode and I've felt the onset of a motion sickness like feeling while looking at it, without actually triggering motion sickness, of course. It's been years and years ever since I got motion sickness.

The game that always always triggered motion sickness for me was Heretic (Hexen too).