Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2014]
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I'm not seeing how that's weird. If the dev says it's 1080p, and the image doesn't have a very "upscaled" look, but it's lacking clarity and has more temporal artifacts compared to the single-player (which is known to be native 1080p with sophisticated TAA)? Without somewhat deep analysis, blaming low-quality ppAA is arguably a fairly reasonable guess, especially if you're the typical person using an LCD TV where the occasional combing artifacts might not be very clearly identifiable as combing.
And nobody is suggesting not using those metric in technical analysis.
The issue that's being brought up is that placing particular end-user value on those things adds subjectivity.
Lol, how is "looks blurred" not an "upscaled" look?
That IS EXACTLY the "upscaled" look, according to the 1080p camp anyways.
Because even if it's been softened in some kind of funky way, it's still resolving sharp details with an 1920x1080 spatial frequency.
Look at really sharp specular aliasing, for instance. If you have a 1:1 mapped 1-pixel-wide bright specular stairstep, it'll still look kinda/sorta like such a stairstep if you smear a small amount of its brightness into neighboring pixels.
In practice, there are different sources of softness which have different impacts on visual makeup.
L. Scofield
Veteran
Just raising the possibility.
And he's just lowering it.
I am not gonna defend or attack those people. And i am not even sure if I care enough to invest in a thread of burthurt like this one. But if mp looks worse than sp then it's a given that something is going on. Bad AA or whatever. It then turns out that it was low res, I find it pretty amusing to be using that as a example on how resolution doesn't matter. There was a difference and it mattered, but those that complain about resolution didn't notice that it was the low res that made it look blurry, so now they can't complain about resolution ever again?
They actually made the point, resolution matters, even if they didn't know it
How this can be a shitstorm like this is bewildering, imho we should be having a word with Guerilla, first and foremost tell them to be less like real politicians and then let us in on how this new vertical interlace thing works.
hesido
Regular
Talking about framerate dips: Lowest frame rate metric can be quite informative but if the game performs 20fps in less than, say, 1% of the game time, those should be discarded. Maybe, metrics such as time spent under 29 fps, 28fps, 27fps... down to 20 could be given as a simple 2D graph, for a 30fps game, and a similar chart for 60fps games.
They actually made the point, resolution matters, even if they didn't know it
That's precisely the problem, people actually knew something's off but then they still shrug it off when it comes to "their" platform but would put the same shit under a microscope when it's not.
I think GT4 did the same trick on the PS2 for 1080i?
I wonder, given 1080p output, how would the following compare:
1. 960 x 1080, stretched 2X horizontally
2. 1358 x 764, scaled up
3. 960 x 1080, with frames blending
The assumption is that the cost are comparable (it might not be), obvious GG chose 3 over the other 2, but is it because it's the best looking solution?
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djskribbles
Legend
Who is shrugging it off? Look at the reactions at GAF... people are disappointed. Fact is, there were many people that suspected something was off because MP was blurrier. No one can confirm it but pixel counters, which there are only a select few people that can do that sort of thing.
I just don't get why people are trying to rub this into people's faces. I guess it's towards the people that were bragging about full 1080p MP? If so, there were only a select few people doing that AFAIK.
I just don't get why people are trying to rub this into people's faces. I guess it's towards the people that were bragging about full 1080p MP? If so, there were only a select few people doing that AFAIK.
Shrug it off when they believe it's 1080p because they were told it's native 1080p, even when it looks odd.
djskribbles
Legend
So people are rubbing it in the faces of people who believed it was 1080p just because they were told so, even when it looked odd? I've MAYBE seen one or two people on these boards do that (won't name names). Seems to me that people are generalizing too much and are trying to rub it into the entire 1080p crowd.
As it has been said above already, there are other things that can contribute to a blurrier image. But not many people can confirm the resolution.
As it has been said above already, there are other things that can contribute to a blurrier image. But not many people can confirm the resolution.
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The point is that those crazed about 1080p (not your entire 1080p crowd) had no idea what 1080p is supposed to look like, they know who they are. Even if the rubbing is happening, karma's a bitch, and the rubbees today get to rub at the rubbers. If anything, it's not the resolution, it's FRIGGING DOUBLE STANDARD.
You're trying way to hard to prove an point that has already been shown to be inaccurate. Anyone can go over to GAF (as was already pointed out) or any other number of forums for what its worth and see that people did notice there was something going on the visuals.
People don't have to count pixels or use a technical term to know there is an issue. Nor do issues have to be described by the public in technical terms to valid. Most gamers couldn't correctly list any of the shader effects being used in a scene but that doesn't make their opinions any less relevant than someone who can't read music commenting on Bach or Metallica. Gaming is a pop culture medium anyone can appreciate or criticize what they see even if they don't use the words you want them to describe their opinions. Why is this so hard to understand? As far as the motivations behind post, you are a lot smarter than most if you can somehow divine it....
Edit:
The 'face rubbing' should be directed at GG for saying the MP was 1080P when it wasn't... They had an AP moment and should be taken to task for it.
djskribbles
Legend
If so, then that's fair. HOWEVER, there are people (ie function) who seem to be trying to rub this into the faces of the entire 1080p crowd... THAT's what I have a problem with. Saying it like it's a fact that ALL of the '1080p chearleaders', as they've been labeled, can't tell the difference between full-1080p and sub-native res because a select few bragged about 1080p without knowing that it actually wasn't. That BS is just as bad as the people blindly bragging about 1080p IMO.
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Is there any doc someplace describing what they did? In the ps3 days Guerrilla were very open about their tech and had nice slide shows describing everything, maybe someone can dig one up for their current game? Maybe this temporal 960x1080 can be used by others. If it can work for a shooter that has lots of rapid side to side motion then it should be nicely applicable to racing games or other games that have less horizontal motion than shooters do.
Is anyone at Guerrilla presenting at GDC this month? Maybe they'll talk about it there.
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