Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2014]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by DieH@rd, Jan 11, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. zed

    zed
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,790
    Likes Received:
    931
    yes from my quickly looking it seems as if what theyre talking about is a straming problem (which resolution effects in no way, texture res yes but not screen res)
     
  2. FATBOT

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    4
  3. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    22,295
    Likes Received:
    6,711
    I always find it funny when people pass judgement on anything without having seen the product in question. In this case no one here has seen the game on ps4, let alone on both consoles and PC, to make any kind of comment on the validity of DF's analysis.

    Not speaking of you in particular.
     
  4. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    22,295
    Likes Received:
    6,711
    I personally found Metro as one of the best looking games I've played on ps3. Game full of pretty shameful bugs but some aspects of the graphics were really lovely. For a ps3 game, that goes without saying. Lighting, shadows and shaders for sure. Detail textures and normals also quite nice, if not a bit out of place on people's skin for example.
    My opinion anyway.
     
  5. betan

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,315
    Likes Received:
    0
    Having played Last Light recently (too?), I can tell you the game has its visual moments but the discussion is kinda moot since most of the time you are playing underground.
     
  6. function

    function None functional
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    5,340
    Likes Received:
    2,797
    Location:
    Wrong thread
    This comment is a new low for B3D.
     
  7. taisui

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    The mindset of if I dislike the result it means the source is wrong this time and only this time fascinates me.
     
  8. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    22,295
    Likes Received:
    6,711
    Sounds like some people would rather play Crash Bandicoot at 4k than TLOU at 720p...
     
  9. Strange

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    196
    Location:
    Somewhere out there
    We're not comparing two different games.

    If we were to simply offer two options:

    A 900p, worse frame rate, better AF
    B 1080p, better frame rate, worse AF

    Which would you vouch for?

    So basically all the PS4's advantages are overshadowed by larger issues across all three platforms to the point that they don't matter and that the AF stands out so much that they give the XB1 version the recommendation.

    I find that difficult to believe.



    Also, the oddities of the 30fps is very fishy. two unique frames followed by two duplicates? 122234445666??

    It look to me that they can simply just go 60fps...
    Putting the issues together it seems like they had more power to spare but wasted it in bad optimization for both platforms. Maybe they'll fix it in a patch like the various other titles.
     
    #489 Strange, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  10. shredenvain

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Somewhere in southern U.S.
    I own this game for the X1. The framerate tends to be pretty smooth through most of the gameplay. The drops come mostly in the realtime cut scenes and oddly enough in a video cut scene at the end of the tutorial level. I did see some drops during gameplay while I was beat to death by 4 cops with billy clubs.I have only seen texture popin on a couple of levels at the begining right after the level loads. This happens in quite a few UE3 games. I cant speak on the Ps4 version of the game or the Pc version but as late as Df's faceoff was I would think they would have noticed if the X1 version was missing Occlusion mapping and tesselation. In fact they state all 3 versions share the same settings of Pom and tess. I do find it quite funny though that people constantly use DF results to champion their console of choice but when the results dont match their point of view the are really quick to bash DF and call them out as biased. Everyone can make mistakes but just because you dont like the results dont make them wrong.
     
  11. Betanumerical

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    168
    Location:
    In the land of the drop bears
    They clearly missed the missing occlusion (parallax?) mapping in there own screenshots, not to mention other comparison videos that show it missing in other areas. How thorough is a technical review when the material they capture shows differences they don't even bother to mention.
     
  12. Lucid_Dreamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3
    Exactly! How do you miss what's in the video evidence that you, yourself, provide? How do you choose "winners" in the past based on 4fps alone and yet go the opposite direction on this one (with resolution, etc added on top)?

    Never declare any group to be correct or incorrect all the time. It is just ridiculous. No individual or group is correct all the time. Worthiness should be judged on a case by case basis. If your article adds up, based on the evidence you provide, a pat on the back is in order. If not, the article should be condemned. Anything else is asking for trouble and article quality will likely decrease (as seen here).

    Gamers have mainly been concerned with three things from last/current gen:

    1. Resolution
    2. Frame rate
    3. Texture work

    The first two has always outweighed the third, so why is that different now? This is based on DF's own articles from the past. It's just odd.
     
  13. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,286
    Likes Received:
    3,543
    I think they are testing with low resolution for the AF benchmarks. When the GPU is outputting insane amount of frames, any increase in the load of one area of the GPU pipeline is going to be obvious by the loss of some frames. The process is very sensitive in that case.

    However when the load is shifted to other areas, like max settings at 1080p, an increase texturing load is not going to matter at all, since the pipeline is now bound by something else, (ie, shaders).
     
  14. ultragpu

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,242
    Likes Received:
    2,298
    Location:
    Australia
    While it is true the slope angled surface would get blurred but other surfaces would still benefit from a higher native res by being sharper, less jaggies and shimmering. I guess it's also context biased from scene to scene so if you compare a shot looking at a flat wall, it would obviously tip the favor to the ps4 version than a shot when looking at a sloped angle.
    In the end I feel like the overall technical prowess in the PS4 version outweighs the AF advantage in the XBone version if only by pure quantity or amount of processing power required. The Xbone version may look more appealing in certain scenes but to say it's more technically advanced than the PS4 version is disingenuous.
     
  15. djskribbles

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    5,257
    Likes Received:
    667
    PS4:
    +Better framerate
    +Native 1080p
    +Better use of POM?
    -Worse texture filtering

    XB1:
    +Better texture filtering
    -Lower resolution
    -Less stable framerate
    -More selective use of POM?

    It looks like a clear win for the PS4 version. But I suppose poor texture filtering can make quite a difference in an open world game, enough to make some (ie DF) give the edge to the XB1 version. However the lack of AF on PS4 almost seems like a mistake and that they simply forgot to enable it. If the framerate on PS4 was the same or worse, then I could maybe understand. But during gameplay, there are many instances where the delta is 3-5fps in the PS4's favor, which is a considerable amount in a 30fps game.
     
    #495 djskribbles, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  16. taisui

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the PS4 has texture pop issues, and it sounds like it happens enough to be annoying.
    Also while the PS4 has better frame rate, it's not as if one is locked at 30 and the other at 25, both are stuttering frequently.
    PS4 also has frame rate issue in some of the cut-scenes when X1 is at 30...

    on a side note, this game is not worth even a rental, so who cares...
     
    #496 taisui, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  17. djskribbles

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    5,257
    Likes Received:
    667
    But there's also that GIF that shows shadows disappearing on the XB1 version, so I don't know if we can conclude that the PS4 version is worse with limited footage. But I'll give you that. Could be caused by the playgo system, or the particular HDDs used in the systems.

    Whenever there's no clear winner I suppose it's debatable which is better. DF are neither right or wrong. But I think people should understand why PS4 owners are questioning the decision. It doesn't help that the issues with the PS4 version seem like they could easily be fixed.
     
    #497 djskribbles, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  18. taisui

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am assuming DF spent hours testing and comparing the different platforms, given 1 GIF doesn't really show the whole picture, neither are the vids and imgs on DF. It could be just bugs that'll get patched, could be coding skills, could be time constraints. Fro example, the red hanging banner show the PS4 has horrible texture, but from the video it gets loaded when the camera moved further back, and the former image doesn't show the whole picture, is what i am saying.
     
  19. Cjail

    Cjail Fool
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    210
    DF should simply correct/update the face-off.
    They did it in the past, they can do it now.
    BTW DF made mistakes in the past, they are not infallible...they are only human after all ;)
     
    #499 Cjail, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  20. Betanumerical

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    168
    Location:
    In the land of the drop bears
    Is it possible to have some sort of texture filtering that improves as the camera moves away from the object? because I only just watched the video for the thief article and the texture seems to pop in suddenly, wouldn't this been indicative of a streaming issue and not a texture filtering issue?.

    Indeed, the person who wrote this article also thought the AO on the XB1 version of NFS was better because the HBAO on the ps4 was subtle. It was only corrected after Ghosts told them they were wrong.
     
    #500 Betanumerical, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...