Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2014]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by DieH@rd, Jan 11, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Starx

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    148
    An E3 downgrade?
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ed-4-the-generational-leap-we-were-hoping-for
     
    BRiT likes this.
  2. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    41,649
    Likes Received:
    12,659
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Nothing that hasn't already been said in the UC4 game thread. But when the E3 trailer was shown, plenty of folk were saying it was extremely unlikely the game would look that good with good reason. ND still have a year to refine the game though. It may have just been a bit premature to show the game now, but Sony wanted to show something and UC4 is a flagship title. The game itself looked just as UC fans would like, I'm sure.
     
  3. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,001
    Likes Received:
    6,205
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    Lots can be done in a year. :) I think it's good to have an early critique. Points out things.

    Let's not forget God of War 3's demo vs final. ;)

    Guess we'll see.
     
    Billy Idol, shredenvain and BRiT like this.
  4. HTupolev

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    564
    The game was published by Nintendo, and would had a lot of influence on its goals, but they weren't the developer. It was developed jointly by Namco and Sora.
     
    BRiT likes this.
  5. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,710
    Likes Received:
    2,046
  6. nightshade

    nightshade Interwebz Hijacker !
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    Liverpool
    How many of them were 1080P with 8 characters though?
     
  7. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,710
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    Thats just a tiny fraction of the what is rendered on screen. You should make other questions too.
    How many polygons are the characters made of? How complex is the scenery? What extra effects are enhancing the visuals (i.e hit particles and motion blur)? What is the AA implementation? etc etc etc?
    Could Nintendo make a game as visually detailed as Tekken Tag Tournament 2 with 8 characters on screen at 60fps and 1080p?

    If you zoom into the images at DF you will notice that in order to achieve 1080p at 60fps with 8 characters on screen, they made a ton of compromises.

    Characters are low polygon with visible edges. Many details where could have been polygon based, they are actually textures. The stages have very simple geometry. They are basically made out of platforms and for the empty background they have simple models added. Effects are 2D and the lighting is flat and light sources bouncing on characters are simplistic and few. Normal maps and speculars are almost non existent. Texture detail is just enough to keep the job done considering that the camera is in general far away and visuals are cartoonish

    I wouldnt be surprised if they made even more compromises during 8 player. Since the camera views the action from very far they could use even simpler models without breaking the graphics and anyone noticing

    In general the game benefits from its gameplay style and art
     
  8. zed

    zed
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,513
    Likes Received:
    671
    Yes it's impressive considering the hardware but It looks to have zero AA and simplistic lighting & lots of background is shown
     
  9. blastingthosejets

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Approximation -15000-20000+ Polygons(SF4-TTT2/Tekken 6)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Looks like Samus's suit from Other M which has 14000-15000 polygons

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Tekken 6
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Street Fighter 4
    [​IMG]
    Little Mac would fit well in Street Fighter...

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    You mean Bandai Namco and Sora ltd... Its possible...

    First of all Digital Foundry article does not have any image/picture of 8 player mode except of a video which is on Youtube and everyone knows atrocious compression that is applied that creates artifacts.

    Judging games visuals by using a Youtube video is unforgiving, you don't have any credibility...

    If you have proof then present it, don't make claims without a strong proof.

    Then why did mention TTT2?


     
    #3130 blastingthosejets, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2014
  10. blastingthosejets

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    I know I might get flak for it, but its typical Bandai Namco's lightning in their fighting games... :p

    You can't consider Wii U's hardware since we don't know much about it...
     
  11. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,710
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    The Smash Bros images you posted repeat what was pointed already. You arent exactly making a strong point other than the possibility that some characters may have more geometry than others in Smash Bros..
    Regarding the other games you posted, you were pretty selective with the images you were choosing werent you. On one hand you complain about the compressed nature of the DF youtube video yet you pic the worst examples (including some very low res compressed images) for other games, which also cant highlight some of their other visual highlights such us multilayered stages or object motion blur etc. Please if you are going to talk about credibility do it the right way.



    If you mean through compromises? Yes sure

    And yet TTT2 on Wii U brought us these results from the same creators:
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tekken-tag-tournament-2-on-wii-u-face-off
    You can claim that this was because it was their first game on the WiiU, but thats a speculation at best. You are basically implying that Namco Bandai could fit 8 visible characters at 1080p/60fps in Tekken Tag 2, all battling each other simultaneously without making any visual compromises at all. Ahem.....

    Yes there is some compression, but the conclusions that we can derive from the videos are the same with or without the compression. Stages are simple platforms floating on an almost empty space or simple rooms and viewed constantly from one side. All observations from videos are reconfirmed by the still captures. An HQ video wont suddenly transform those stages from this
    [​IMG]
    or this
    [​IMG]
    or this
    [​IMG]

    to this
    [​IMG]

    or this

    [​IMG]

    or this
    [​IMG]

    Or this
    [​IMG]



    I believe its too obvious for you to ask that question

    Compressed youtube videos of TTT2 and Smash Bros Wii U


    Artifacting or not, the difference is obvious. Both compressed Youtube videos

    Simplistic lighting typical to Bandai Namco fighting games? Not at all. Unless you werent really in touch with their fighting games
     
    #3132 Nesh, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  12. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,611
    Likes Received:
    5,371
    No idea why you're comparing such different games. Yes they're Fighting games but the similarities end there.

    Most importantly, the last few pictures just reminded me... Where's our super duper next gen Virtua Fighter????
     
  13. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,710
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    No idea why either. TTT2 was just mentioned as a reference yardstick for the question "could they have achieved 1080p/60fps 8 player battles without making compromises"? I didnt mention it as a comparison per se in my original post.

    And yes I want a new VF too. I think its still one of the most brilliantly looking fighting games for last gen. Sega did a wonderful job with both visuals and gameplay depth.
     
  14. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    41,649
    Likes Received:
    12,659
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    You've had a handful of posts so far, starting with a bash of the PS2 in the Human Rendering thread. You may want to hold off claiming someone else has zero credibility until you have some of your own.

    We know quite a lot about it. Discussed here.
     
  15. Goodtwin

    Veteran Newcomer Subscriber

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,142
    Likes Received:
    605
    That's your opinion and that's cool. I think a better comparison would be Playstation Allstars compared to Smash Bros U. I believe Allstars ran at 60fps, but did so in 720p. If you look at the quality of assets, Allstars probably edges out Smash Bros, but when resolution is twice the pixels, and you can have twice as many characters on screen, its clear that Smash Bros U is the more impressive. Seeing as how the PS3 and Wii U are comparable in terms of raw processing power, Smash Bros on Wii U is a well produced game.
     
  16. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,710
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    I didnt say it is not a well produced game. Thats a different topic though.
    Cant comment on All stars much as I have only seen the PS Vita version. Perhaps it is more impressive than All stars perhaps it is not. The question in this case is if it was possible to run PS All stars at 1080p/60fps and 8 characters or if it was possible for Smash Bros to retain 1080p, steady 60fps and 8 characters on screen with assets as detailed as those found in All Stars. I dont really have an answer for that
     
  17. blastingthosejets

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    All Stars art style leans towards realism thus its harder to compare it to Smash Wii U...

    [​IMG]

    Dante's model in PASBR... Is it the same from DMC:Devil May Cry? Looks a bit less detailed...
     
  18. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    11,710
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    He most probably is less detailed than DMC.
     
  19. blastingthosejets

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    2
    Okay... He's below 20K...

    Was anyone able to rip models from PASBR?
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...