Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

[Rootax]

I get this, but DF explaining why something looked bad does not equate to defending Microsoft/343. DF analysis often include explanation for why some effects in games are missing, implemented poorly or create issues.

I guess at some point it's about tone / "vibe" ? In Alex video, it sounds to me like an excuse, and like "oh it's only the lighting, don't panic, here is why", like he wants halo to look great. While in some others videos, yes they explain why a game looks this way, but with a more neutral vibe, just talking about facts without any "judgement" about what it should be ... ?

Honestly, to me it's an uneeded video, like many of Alex's : / They are very well done, but I don't think they belong on DF.

 

[BRiT]

I find it telling that anyone would suggest DigitalFoundry is being anything less than professional, but it says more about the poster than about DF.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It's likely not damage control however his wording is really bad.

He could've have easily said, "'So I am just going to cut to the chase here. Did you feel underwhelmed by the graphical presentation found in Halo Infinte and shown off in the Xbox Series X showcase? Would you say it looks flat and current-gen? Well this video is for you. Let's jump right into it'

Then he should've given more time to other issues with the trailer.

Almost 14 minutes of the 18 minute video was about lighting. He mentions pop-in for about 30-45 sec then hopped to shadows(which you can attribute to lighting) then some 'art design decisions' which last about 1m30s. That was it.

There was certainly more issues that just those few.

 

[PSman1700]

They are very well done, but I don't think they belong on DF.

His videos are very well done, and they are about gaming tech. Sounds like a great fit for digital foundry.

Again, what would motivate him damage controlling for any console manufacturer?

I think Alex wants to see the positive side, its a negative subject (game looking flat and current gen), what should he do then, a 18 minute rant-only video that it looks bad? He instead did a video on WHY it looks bad, and lighting seems one of the biggest problems, it generally has a big impact on how a game looks.

They should take a page out of Gamers Nexus

If you want biased ’analyses’, ye.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

He clearly said at 15 minutes that there are pop ins?!

Yep he does but it's was so quick. I blame watching the video into the early hours of this morning having missed it. Watched it again now and rectified.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I guess at some point it's about tone / "vibe" ? In Alex video, it sounds to me like an excuse, and like "oh it's only the lighting, don't panic, here is why", like he wants halo to look great.

I think a lot of us want Halo to look great!! The graphics looked, at times, PS2-level flat. I appreciated this video because Alex explains that this is mostly a consequence of area/location, time of day and the lighting solution. There are often spells in open world games that model 24 hour day/night cycles that the lighting isn't as dramatic as dawn/dusk and/or during dramatic weather because the lighting it directly above casting few shadows or is covered by cloud.

I took this video as DF explaining that there isn't fundamentally impossible to fix issue with Halo's tech.

 

[Rootax]

His videos are very well done, and they are about gaming tech. Sounds like a great fit for digital foundry.
Again, what would motivate him damage controlling for any console manufacturer?
....

Note that I didn't say it was damage control.

 

[PSman1700]

Note that I didn't say it was damage control.

Ok it wasn’t directed at you, il edit my post

 

[Xbat]

There are often spells in open world games that model 24 hour day/night cycles that the lighting isn't as dramatic as dawn/dusk and/or during dramatic weather because the lighting it directly above casting few shadows or is covered by cloud.

And you think Microsoft would choose those times( the worst times to showcase there game ) to show there game? I just can't wrap my head around that.

Surely they have picked the best possible situation to showcase there game at the current build used.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I think Alex wants to see the positive side, its a negative subject (game looking flat and current gen), what should he do then, a 18 minute rant-only video that it looks bad? He instead did a video on WHY it looks bad, and lighting seems one of the biggest problems, it generally has a big impact on how a game looks.

I don't fault him for that. Except how many meme's, complaints of the demo etc. was about lighting? I personally thought at the time that the lighting was the smallest issue(no refraction etc), I noticed it but it didn't register as being a big issue. I agree it's a big issue now but it shows just how much 343 Studios stuffed up and why this demo trailer should never have been green lit. But you have to agree that there are more issues than what he mentioned.

 

[PSman1700]

But you have to agree that there are more issues than what he mentioned.

Certainly, but the video would be longer then 18minutes if he had to explain all of them in detail perhaps. Lighting is one if not the biggest problems and he choose to dive into that one the most.
I think Halo isn’t ment to be that stunner, they shouldnt have advertised it as such. It’s their ’fortnite/apex legends’ i think. They want to capture that market, it needs to run on older hw for that to work.

Forza, hb2, fable etc i think are the ones that take advantage of the xsx, but they didn’t show any of it, which means we basically got nothing. Well i think its going to take a couple of years for Xbox to see those next gen games, its the 1/2 year cross gen era they talked about.

 

[techuse]

Not sure how people are seeing bias in DF's work. They are a professional outlet and are going to do their best to remain respectful of a developers work. The entire video was consistent criticism and disappointment with nearly every game shown.

 

[Rootax]

Not sure how people are seeing bias in DF's work. They are a professional outlet and are going to do their best to remain respectful of a developers work. The entire video was consistent criticism and disappointment with nearly every game shown.

It was more aimed at the latest Alex video on Halo, I believe.

 

[techuse]

It was more aimed at the latest Alex video on Halo, I believe.

I dont see the issue in that video either. He doesn't say lighting is the only problem, hes responding to the specific complaint of the game looking flat. Lighting is one of the primary culprits for that. Can people pinpoint when/where hes being apologetic/making excuses for 343?

 

[Deleted member 2197]

He mentions pop-in but didn't linger too much on it.

Wasn't it mentioned pop-ins (and some other anomalies) would be the subject of another video? Kinda distinctly remember something to that effect.

 

[zed]

I appreciated this video because Alex explains that this is mostly a consequence of area/location, time of day and the lighting solution.

Mate go back and look at the video again, not alex's take but the actual gameplay video, note how much is actually taking place where large portions of the screen is in the sun light

I just did with the actual gameplay

// 0:00 - 2:20 intro video
// 2:20 - 3:03 sun
// 3:03 - 3:13 CGI map
// 3:14 - 6:27 90% in sun
// 6:28 - 6:40 indoor
// 6:40 - video

Fact: The majority of the gameplay footage takes place in sunlight, Does anybody disagree with this?

Alex is bangin on about it a lot of it taking place in the valley, just aint correct if one looks at the video, do yourself a favour and rewatch it if you disagree with me.

I'm guessing they choose having the sun down low cause artistically this looks better, light through trees, lots of shadows creating contrasts etc.
True they should of upped the sunlights strength to make the contrast between the lit & nonshadowed parts greater thats a mistake on their part.

 

[Dictator]

It's likely not damage control however his wording is really bad.

He could've have easily said, "'So I am just going to cut to the chase here. Did you feel underwhelmed by the graphical presentation found in Halo Infinte and shown off in the Xbox Series X showcase? Would you say it looks flat and current-gen? Well this video is for you. Let's jump right into it'

Then he should've given more time to other issues with the trailer.

Almost 14 minutes of the 18 minute video was about lighting. He mentions pop-in for about 30-45 sec then hopped to shadows(which you can attribute to lighting) then some 'art design decisions' which last about 1m30s. That was it.

There was certainly more issues that just those few.

No offence to you, but I am not going to spend the time on the weekend to make a 30 Minute Video disecting every Single Thing wrong in the demo. That would, for one, be unprecedented for DF to go so Hard into a Trailer, and two, be a waste of time and beyond nitpicky. I also cannot give as eloquent logical deductions to explain why other aspects are the way they are, lighting is much more easily explained from a how and why stand point. Beyond saying that the LOD distance and Art decisions were questionable, what more can I really say that is informative and gives context to them? I already sacraficed my saturday and Friday after working last weekend and covered the topic I personally viewed as most egregious.
If me spending 18 minutes to explain why a Trailer looks poor (which df has literally never done, we have never done a video about a Trailer that only describes all of it's faults) comes off as sucking up to MS or going easy on it, then I am not sure what I can say. The fact that people think this video is about excusing something boggles my mind, it is one of the most negative and sobering things I think I have ever produced.

 

[Dictator]

Mate go back and look at the video again, not alex's take but the actual gameplay video, note how much is actually taking place where large portions of the screen is in the sun light

I just did with the actual gameplay

// 0:00 - 2:20 intro video
// 2:20 - 3:03 sun
// 3:03 - 3:13 CGI map
// 3:14 - 6:27 90% in sun
// 6:28 - 6:40 indoor
// 6:40 - video

Fact: The majority of the gameplay footage takes place in sunlight, Does anybody disagree with this?

Alex is bangin on about it a lot of it taking place in the valley, just aint correct if one looks at the video, do yourself a favour and rewatch it if you disagree with me.

I'm guessing they choose having the sun down low cause artistically this looks better, light through trees, lots of shadows creating contrasts etc.
True they should of upped the sunlights strength to make the contrast between the lit & nonshadowed parts greater thats a mistake on their part.

I am gonna double post because the Edit function here is not friendly, but every Single "in Sun Light" shot you mention has 1/2 of a Model casting it's self shadow and darkening itself and the area around it. If one half of a Model has its sunlit side looks ok, but its self shadowed side looks decidedly poor, then yes, the lighting of shadows is affectIng visuals heavily. The Sun is near horizontal here so models self shadows are massive and - 1/2 of their Profile is in shadow. At a high noon or similar Tod their self shadow and the general length and size of shadows im screen space would be much smaller, minising the intensity of the issue but not actually solving it.

 

[Jawed]

There were a lot of issues with Halo.

Let me help you here: it looked like a PS3 game.

 

[zed]

Heres a screenshot from my game, btw I notice similar flowers and trees to the halo scene, just pure coincidence, now heres what I believe they should of done (no baked lighting btw so the same as halo), upped the brightness of the sunlight and decreased the ambient of the shadows, like I have in the first screenshot, what they have is like the 2nd screenshot.
Simple fix