Demos of XNA : Yours opinions

[Megadrive1988]

everybody seems to forget the bullshit demos from nintendo (Metroid with the thousands bugs, the "tree shaped" character in a wonderful forest, the Wave race CG presented as to be "INFERIOR" to the real time one etc..)

thank you. I was just about to bring that up.

 

[marconelly!]

Well, the HDR lighting is something new. So is the deformation physics on the car.

Several games already have very nice looking HDR lighting. Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, upcoming Halo 2 and Killzone... Even the three years old Ico had it, but admittedly it wasn't as technically good as in those games I listed above.

 

[pc999]

Re: ...

But then again, if Xbox can do this, Xbox Next might do it...

You got point I hope...

 

[Farid]

Re: ...

Not only SCEI "demos" were unsurpassed to date, they were jaggy-free(Here is your hint that they ran on anything but PSX2)...

Are you sure you saw the GT2000 demo, the namco's Reiko Nagase demo, the FF 8 demo, the Dream factory demo, the From software demo with your "normal eyes" instead of using your "realtime antialiased eyes"

all thoses demos were packed with jaggies (especially the GT200 demo)
the PS2 did really better than thoses demos (with an exception for the square "old man demo".....it's may be possible but....it looked "early" especially from squaresoft)

 

[nobie]

Well, the HDR lighting is something new. So is the deformation physics on the car.

Several games already have very nice looking HDR lighting. Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, upcoming Halo 2 and Killzone... Even the three years old Ico had it, but admittedly it wasn't as technically good as in those games I listed above.

I don't think any of those games use HDR lighting in any significant way, certainly not to the extent seen in these demos. Actually most of them don't use HDR effects at all, just traditional dark/not dark lighting.

 

[Fafalada]

If anyone needed proof that graphics are well into the point of diminishing returns, these demos should leave you without much doubt about it.
That said, I liked Noir demo, it was cool.

Not only SCEI "demos" were unsurpassed to date, they were jaggy-free(Here is your hint that they ran on anything but PSX2)...

You've either never actually seen ANY of those demos at all, or you're simply in lots of denial about them - or both.
Every single one of those demos was non-filtered interlaced mess, and they were visibly improved upon by the Japanese launch titles already.

R5 basically embarassed every single GT tech-demo, TTT final turned out way better then previous tech demos, etc.
Bouncer clearly looked better then the Ballroom demo too - though we could argue that the ballroom demo was the better game of the two .

 

[Vince]

The demos were kind of neat , no doubt...
but i'm disappointed by the fact that there are ONE car , ONE character (Ok there's a robot with....ONE hand ) by (per?) scene.

In the next generation i'm really looking forward for more complex world , with many full (or fairly) detailed characters etc...

I can't agree more, you took the words out of my mouth. Faf, I agree that you're into the diminishing returns catagory if you keep throwing more and more resources at the same few objects... go concurrent. I'm more much interested in seeing a game like the one Brendan McNamara talked about with a hundred or more AI capable agents in a scene.

 

[Deadmeat]

...

You've either never actually seen ANY of those demos at all, or you're simply in lots of denial about them - or both.

Too bad I have seen and analyzed them all.... I had to in order to compare them against my PSX2 performance estimation, and declared them as frauds...

Every single one of those demos was non-filtered interlaced mess

Your memory's failing you. GT2K demo looked photo-realistic, GT3/4 aren't. The Rubber duck thing, yea right. It's amazing how few people were realizing that they were looking at anything but PSX2....

What SCEI promised back in 1999....

What gamers are actually getting 5 years later...

 

[Paul]

Your memory's failing you. GT2K demo looked photo-realistic, GT3/4 aren't. The Rubber duck thing, yea right. It's amazing how few people were realizing that they were looking at anything but PSX2....

I re-downloaded them a few days ago, they look like total shit. GT2K photo-realistic? Perhaps you never saw it in motion, GT3 looked better.

Alot of shimmering in the demos too, though the shit quality of the videos almost masks it.

But w/e, keep in your fantasy world. Remember, if it's Sony, it must scream conspiracy.

 

[Fafalada]

Too bad I have seen and analyzed them all.... I had to in order to compare them against my PSX2 performance estimation, and declared them as frauds...

Then you're just blind.

Your memory's failing you. GT2K demo looked photo-realistic, GT3/4 aren't. The Rubber duck thing, yea right. It's amazing how few people were realizing that they were looking at anything but PSX2....

I don't need to rely on my memory, I still have the discs with actual GT demos.

As for rubber ducky, I seriously suggest you try and play a few PS2 games(there's quite a few with good looking water) before passing judgement on platform without ever seeing the software.

 

[Deadmeat]

...

Then you're just blind.

Does this look like 15 million polys/s you promised us??? Maybe one of us is blind....

 

[Vince]

Too bad I have seen and analyzed them all.... I had to in order to compare them against my PSX2 performance estimation, and declared them as frauds...

What's the name of the guy from the Inquirer that people in the 3D Forum are ripping on? DM reminds me of him.

 

[archie4oz]

Does this look like 15 million polys/s you promised us??? Maybe one of us is blind....

Yeah and I know (since I've seen the demos as well, and happen to know Mr. Rubber Ducky writer) it's the one who needs to rely on screenshots rather than real demos running who's blind...

 

[zidane1strife]

After SCEI and MS's bullshit demos in the last generation, I don't have any faith in them...

Correction:After Nintendo and MS's bullshit demos in the last generation, I don't have any faith in them..

PS The old man face, was taxing the system badly, as indicated by the figures, showing that it could not be done in-game.

If anyone needed proof that graphics are well into the point of diminishing returns, these demos should leave you without much doubt about it.
That said, I liked Noir demo, it was cool.

...

As a pure software implementation OpenRT runs on any high-performance PC without special graphics hardware. Recently OpenRT was used to directly render the entire model of a Boeing 777 with over 350 million polygons at interactive rates on a single PC

Judging by the performance obtained out-of 1B verts sun-flower field real-time ray tracing demo, the ps3 should easily be able to achieve it, if the speculated numbers are real... and that demo, IMHO, is a substantial jump....

With the software ray tracing techniques... 400Gflops("I'd say it's less than 200Gflops"*)... can deliver four frames per second on an image composed of one billion polygons per frame...

Zid quote in parenthesis, that is that particular comment is my own... heheh

Judging by the numbers, and with a little extrapolation... those numbers should be viable at a decent framerate in next-gen h/w... Now that would be impressive wouldn't you say?

PS That is, unless the people selling this s/w are out-right lying... or their site's filled with massive typos

PPS
Based on those figures, assuming they're real, and on ps3 patent perf.... one could estimate that ps3 could do in some scenarios 500M verts per frame at 60fps.... or 1000 x 500k verts per frame at 60fps(ps2 criterion numbers)....

edii

 

[Steve Dave Part Deux]

The "rebirth" video was meant to show off the GC's ability to stream video. And the metroid demo didn't even look as good as the final game. Besides, unlike PS2, they're aren't many developers pouring their heart and soul into pushing the visual envelope on GC. I'm not saying that the image quality of the demos wasn't higher than most GC titles but it certainly wasn't BS. If you're looking for BS try the old "Project Reality" demos.

 

[Farid]

What's the name of the guy from the Inquirer that people in the 3D Forum are ripping on? DM reminds me of him.

FUaD Abazovic...
but if you ask me thoses DM assertions reminds me of groucho marx more than anything else...

 

[akira888]

What's the name of the guy from the Inquirer that people in the 3D Forum are ripping on?

Fuad Abazovich.

 

[marconelly!]

What gamers are actually getting 5 years later...

Oh, if it isn't the case of "let's find best pics of one side and shittiest of another side, trying to prove our point". Especially when you consider that when you use screens that tiny, everything tends to look photo realistic...

So let's be a bit more reasonable, shall we?

Demo pic:

Actual Tekken Tag: (shitty video capture, though)

Demo pic:

Actual GT4:

 

[Farid]

Actual Tekken Tag: (shitty video capture, though)

here a few where you can actually see nice jagged hair

and the RR4's Reiko Nagase With nice aliasing and shimmering , the character doesn't even have a shadow

edit:
just found a bunch of GT2000 pics

photorealistic?

 

[nelg]

I didn't know that Vanilla Ice was featured in a video game.