Dell&HP slam "erroneous" Intel/MS HDDVD claims

[Shifty Geezer]

If anything the OEM’s should be the most neutral of all the parties, after all does it really matter to them who wins? You have to ask yourself why exactly they prefer Blu-Ray and why most hardware manufatcurers prefer Blu-Ray.

Because for PC use people want recordability, something BluRay has already and which isn't even on the cards AFAIK for HDDVD. So if HDDVD takes off for films, people will still want a high-density recordable optical format so that'll need BRD. And if you've already got one HD format that you'll keep because it's the only recordable one, and that high capacity is what's needed for movies, why waste time with a second format that adds no functional difference to the existing recordable format? The advantages of HDDVD are purely cost and software implementation (assuming BRD attains the capacities claimed)

 

[avaya]

Because for PC use people want recordability, something BluRay has already and which isn't even on the cards AFAIK for HDDVD. So if HDDVD takes off for films, people will still want a high-density recordable optical format so that'll need BRD.

Recordable HD-DVD's are still in the labs no?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Dunno, but recordable BRDs are out now and AFAIK available in HP and Dell PCs. How'll that look if Dell and HP change sides and BluRay as a format dies, leaving their customers who've paid over the odds for high storage medium being left with a dead standard? And whatever recordable HDDVD can bring to the PC space, it won't be any better then the existing BRD format, so why bother switching and leaving those existing customers in the lurch?

"To our existing High Capacity Optical Drive customers. We're writing to inform you that we (HP/Dell) are no longer supporting the drive we provided you. Instead we are switching to an alternative format. For $n hundred you can switch to a lower capacity recordable drive then the one we've already sold you, at no technical advantage whatsoever over the existing BRD you've already paid for. Thanks you for your cooperation."

 

[a688]

Dunno, but recordable BRDs are out now and AFAIK available in HP and Dell PCs. How'll that look if Dell and HP change sides and BluRay as a format dies, leaving their customers who've paid over the odds for high storage medium being left with a dead standard? And whatever recordable HDDVD can bring to the PC space, it won't be any better then the existing BRD format, so why bother switching and leaving those existing customers in the lurch?

"To our existing High Capacity Optical Drive customers. We're writing to inform you that we (HP/Dell) are no longer supporting the drive we provided you. Instead we are switching to an alternative format. For $n hundred you can switch to a lower capacity recordable drive then the one we've already sold you, at no technical advantage whatsoever over the existing BRD you've already paid for. Thanks you for your cooperation."

Where can you buy BRD recordable drives for PCs? Dell and HP certaintly don't have them. How would it look if they changed sides? It'll look like they made a mistake. Formats come and go. I bet you don't bitch at companies at not supporting the 120MB MO floppies or zip discs, or any other technology that is now "dead". Things come and go. How dare those damn CD player companies NOT make their players able to play records. Dell and HP should say "dear customers, we both took a risk and lost. Time to move on". Also, quit with the appeal to emotion. Its pointless and worthless.

 

[Phil]

I think they're sold in Japan. Someone linked to photos of stores selling BD-disks with up to 50 GB space (in cartridges).

 

[wco81]

Dell and HP are not offering next-gen optical drives yet.

One thing to remember is that they came to the DVD writers later than other companies. Pioneer got the DVD-R drives out there earlier and Apple started shipping the SuperDrives.

Then a few months or maybe even a year later, Dell, HP and others started shipping DVD+R drives. Not sure but I believe the +R/+RW format has at least reached parity marketshare-wise with -R/-RW, if not topped it.

So new PCs are an effective distribution channel for new optical drives.

 

[mckmas8808]

Where can you buy BRD recordable drives for PCs? Dell and HP certaintly don't have them.

For from dead baby. It's just getting started. Let me show you something from IFA 2005 held in Berlin Germany a month ago.

New coming soon HP computer with built-in BD\DVD+-\CD writer with LightScribe technology

http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/hp_04.jpg

Nero was also at IFA demonstrating Blu-ray Disc playback and burning using Philips Blu-ray Disc triple writer. They recently announced that their Nero Burning ROM, Nero Express and Nero ShowTime software packages now support BD.

http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/nero_03.jpg
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/nero_04.jpg

Does Nero support HD-DVD burning?

Sonic announced broad support for Blu-ray Disc in their Roxio-branded DigitalMedia Archive, Easy Archive and DigitalMedia Studio software products. They also announced support for Blu-ray Disc and BD-J in their AuthorScript development kits (SDK), which will enable third party companies to easily incorporate support for Blu-ray Disc into their products.

http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/sonic_03.jpg

Gotta love that extra online capability.

 

[Thegameman]

It is clear why MS chose HD-DVD if they din't it would be like a dead blow to their own xbox 360.


Imaging MS saying Blue-Ray is the superior format,and Sony saying after that even MS say the format we use for the PS3 is better than the one they will suport.


This is a no brainer.

 

[wco81]

Look how long Sony has stuck with Memory Stick and Mini Disc despite tepid reception for these products. They even stuck with Beta for longer than it made sense.

Even if HD-DVD players outsell Blu-Ray players for several years and HD-DVD has a content advantage, Sony won't give up soon, since they own content as well. Can't speak for how dedicated the other BDA companies will be but this seems to be a company bet for Sony.

Several things would have to go wrong, like HD-DVD winning big, PS3 losing big, all the major BDA companies switching sides to HD-DVD, etc. One way or another, Blu-Ray will be with us for years, probably at least 10 years. PS3 may be the main distribution channel for BD-ROM drives and discs and Blu-Ray drives may only be on 5% of computers but even under this worst case scenario, Sony will stick with it and release SPE movies in the format.

Toshiba better have the same kind of commitment (they're not hedging their bets with HVD are they?). Plus rumors of even Warners wavering makes you wonder if the HD-DVD side is more likely to flinch than the BDA.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Also, quit with the appeal to emotion. Its pointless and worthless.

Huh? I'm not making any appeals. I was responding to Avaya's question as to why should Dell and HP care and presenting a possible reason. If I were CEO of Dell of HP and I already had plans to use 50 gb recordable BRD's in upcoming PCs, I'd have a reason to protest a rival format that could potentially usurp that BRD format and scupper my investments plus make for a few sour customers. I know technology progresses and some people are left with turkeys, but it's not something any business wants and they'll avoid it if possible, I'm sure. Otherwise a company that didn't really care could embrace every new technological fad and get a real reputation for providing long-term useless technologies!

As for HDDVDs, a quick Google shows Toshiba have a working 15gb recordable. Don't know about rerecordables or multlayer recording though, which is one of BRD's key strongpoints.

 

[wco81]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR11...09&cs=1&s=h&p=0

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-Ray in PlayStation 3," Paramount home entertainment prexy Thomas Lesinski said in a statement. "After more detailed assessment and new data on cost, manufacturability and copy protection solutions, we have now made the decision to move ahead with the Blu-ray format."

This means more than the MS and Intel announcement last week, unless they start shipping a lot of products with HD-DVD drives.

If Universal also flips, HD-DVD will be in the ropes.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR11...09&cs=1&s=h&p=0



This means more than the MS and Intel announcement last week, unless they start shipping a lot of products with HD-DVD drives.

If Universal also flips, HD-DVD will be in the ropes.

Interesting given the timing of everything. I think ultimately I'd be happier if whatever format we ended up with wasn't backed by either MS/Intel or Sony. The whole argument seems to be over which would be the lesser of two evils.

Nite_Hawk

 

[wco81]

I don't understand that attitude.

Whatever you may think of Sony, they at least developed this technology and spent millions and a lot of time doing so. They are contributing significantly to advancing the fields of storage, optics, etc.

MS and Intel didn't have any hand in developing either format. MS is mostly a tech. provider. They have no financial stake here because VC-1 and iHP were subsidized by Windows and Office money. If nobody uses these technologies, they just roll it into Windows and it doesn't affect them.

Sony isn't even the biggest CE manufacturer by a long shot. They are stubborn about their technologies though (e.g. Mini Disc, Memory Stick, ATRAC). Even if among standalone players and PC drives, HD-DVD has a huge marketshare lead over Blu-Ray players and drives, you'll have Blu-Ray movies released for many years because you'll have tens of millions of PS3s out there by the end of the decade. Not to mention the fact that Sony controls the Columbia and MGM libraries.

Unless the PS3 has a meltdown and loses the marketshare battle badly, you can expect Blu-Ray drives in the PS4 as well, or something which will be able to read all the BD-ROMs and Blu-Ray movies.

Once Blu-Ray is released, it's going to be with us for a long time.

Now does Toshiba have the same kind of commitment and resolve to HD-DVD? (they seem to be heding their bets with HVD) Does even Warners? Or the other HD-DVD studios?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I don't understand that attitude.

Whatever you may think of Sony, they at least developed this technology and spent millions and a lot of time doing so. They are contributing significantly to advancing the fields of storage, optics, etc.

MS and Intel didn't have any hand in developing either format. MS is mostly a tech. provider. They have no financial stake here because VC-1 and iHP were subsidized by Windows and Office money. If nobody uses these technologies, they just roll it into Windows and it doesn't affect them.

Sony isn't even the biggest CE manufacturer by a long shot. They are stubborn about their technologies though (e.g. Mini Disc, Memory Stick, ATRAC). Even if among standalone players and PC drives, HD-DVD has a huge marketshare lead over Blu-Ray players and drives, you'll have Blu-Ray movies released for many years because you'll have tens of millions of PS3s out there by the end of the decade. Not to mention the fact that Sony controls the Columbia and MGM libraries.

Unless the PS3 has a meltdown and loses the marketshare battle badly, you can expect Blu-Ray drives in the PS4 as well, or something which will be able to read all the BD-ROMs and Blu-Ray movies.

Once Blu-Ray is released, it's going to be with us for a long time.

Now does Toshiba have the same kind of commitment and resolve to HD-DVD? (they seem to be heding their bets with HVD) Does even Warners? Or the other HD-DVD studios?

yay... years of overpriced sony only support, wouldn't that be just swell.

 

[darkblu]

congrats Alpha, you take the prize for stupidest flamebait in this thread.

 

[AlphaWolf]

congrats Alpha, you take the prize for stupidest flamebait in this thread.

Oh I should cheer Sony's altruistic motives of supporting proprietary design (yay for $20 8meg memory cards) and single vendor support? I must have missed that memo.

 

[randycat99]

Oh I should cheer Sony's altruistic motives of supporting proprietary design (yay for $20 8meg memory cards) and single vendor support? I must have missed that memo.

Absolutely no one here has suggested any such thing. That being what you "think" is expected here tells much of you. What you should be concerned about is that the opposite extreme from this premise (where you currently reside) is not particularly useful or wanted here, either.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hold on guys!! Just hold the hell on!!

When did Paramount place their faith in Blu-ray? Alpha you just want to argue but what's up with this new news? Is it real?

Well time to Google.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Absolutely no one here has suggested any such thing. That being what you "think" is expected here tells much of you. What you should be concerned about is that the opposite extreme from this premise (where you currently reside) is not particularly useful or wanted here, either.

Yes they have, read back a few posts.

I don't care who 'wins' the format war, but until there is a winner I won't be buying anything to do with either media (ps3 included). Suggesting that the 'loser' may provide long term support is of no significant benefit.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes they have, read back a few posts.

I don't care who 'wins' the format war, but until there is a winner I won't be buying anything to do with either media (ps3 included). Suggesting that the 'loser' may provide long term support is of no significant benefit.

Of course not to you but to this discussion and others here it does mean something.

And lets talk about this new Paramount deal shall we.

Many in the industry have observed that momentum seems to be swinging toward the Blu-ray camp recently, particularly after the HD DVD studios abandoned plans to release their first batch of DVDs in the format by this holiday season. Toshiba also pushed back the release of the first HD DVD player until next year.

Wow and now Blu-ray picks up Paramount. And thanks to the PS3 and some other great points too like new low cost of Blu-ray discs.

We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-Ray in PlayStation 3," Paramount home entertainment prexy Thomas Lesinski said in a statement

Amazing how me and some other people have been saying this for months and others just stuck their nose up at the facts. Open your eyes people the PS3 actually helps. You can't argue with the president of Paramount Home Entertainment can you?