Dell&HP slam "erroneous" Intel/MS HDDVD claims

[Arun]

Err, why does anyone give a flying fuck about whether the facts are right or not? It's not like you couldn't get such information from other places or sources anyway.
The only really interesting thing to see here is that the two biggest OEMs in the world are supporting Bluray and not HD-DVD, even though Microsoft and Intel are doing the exact opposite. I think that's interesting, but fail to see what's the big deal about the rest of the articles and/or press releases.

Uttar

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Of course they're no longer neutral after they've chosen sides, but the fact that they were in limbo until recently, shows that they had to weigh the pros and the cons. I'd just like to see a statement from an independent group to rebuttal the Wintel argument. All we got though was this obviously one-sided statement from the BR group. I thought it was rather weak because they just answered with the typical acronym-riddled "spec sheet rebuttal."

If your enemy's hydrogen bomb is bigger than your atom bomb, "We've got a better bomb in the lab!" isn't going to remove them from your borders.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The only really interesting thing to see here is that the two biggest OEMs in the world are supporting Bluray and not HD-DVD, even though Microsoft and Intel are doing the exact opposite.

Uttar

Thats what I find most interesting to. Everything elses is same old-same old Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD arguments.

 

[London Geezer]

Oh come on man, you posted a thread on the THIRD most devicive topic on this board.

1. PS3/Xbox 360
2. Less filling/better tasting
3. HDDVD/BR
4. Boxers/briefs
5. Me/You

I mean, what did you expect?

uhm hold on... what's that second one again? I thought my personal life was in second place! Hold on... less filling/better tasting.... hey you WERE talking about my life weren't you!!!


Remember i'm a

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Err, why does anyone give a flying fuck about whether the facts are right or not? It's not like you couldn't get such information from other places or sources anyway.
The only really interesting thing to see here is that the two biggest OEMs in the world are supporting Bluray and not HD-DVD, even though Microsoft and Intel are doing the exact opposite. I think that's interesting, but fail to see what's the big deal about the rest of the articles and/or press releases.

Uttar

I think some people have chosen sides. The fact that this is on the console boards gives evidence that people who are diehard Sony myrmidons "support" BluRay come hell or high water. I don't know what the Xbots support since HD-DVD won't be in the Xbox 360. I on the otherhand will ride the DVD wave until the wheels fall off. Wake me up when this "war" is over. *yawn*

 

[Acert93]

Blu-ray hit back today, saying that Blu-ray would be 50GB at launch, although no launch date was mentioned. This would give Blu-ray a 20GB lead over HD DVD's 30GB capcity. However, Richard E. Doherty, program manager in Microsoft's media entertainment technology convergence group, cast a shadow over just when the launch would be.

"HD DVD is proven to deliver 30GB capacity today, with the potential to deliver even greater capacity. The 50GB claim for BD-ROM discs is unproven and will not be available for many years to come, based on discussions with major Japanese and US replicators. Replicators not only do not have test lines running, they cannot even pre-order the equipment to begin evaluating this disc. They cannot judge the cost of these discs, or even whether they can be manufactured at all. Major replicators can mass manufacture 30GB HD DVD discs today and it’s well understood that these discs will cost significantly less to manufacture than the lower-capacity 25GB BD discs."

Since I'm no expert on the subject, I can't say anything in regards to how likely this assesment sounds, but it does seem to describe some of MS's reasoning.

It would be interesting to know how true it is... but it is politics. It almost does not matter. It is interesting that they are saying 30GB DL HD DVD is a lot cheaper than 25GB BD discs.

At this point I don't care. I, like many people, will just wait. Not like many of us have HDMI sets anyhow.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Not like many of us have HDMI sets anyhow.

That I hate most about Blu-Ray. I spent money on a HDTV set and it doesn't have HDMI. Ok. So basically what the supporters of Blu-Ray is asking the general public is to go out and BUY another HDTV with HDMI this time. Its ridiculous and they better change it come PS3 release time...or the only Blu-Ray player i'll be having is my PS3...i'll have a HD-DVD player (separate) in the next room for my High-Def cinema needs.

 

[Acert93]

uhm hold on... what's that second one again? I thought my personal life was in second place! Hold on... less filling/better tasting.... hey you WERE talking about my life weren't you!!! I am a little angel

Yeah, and I am a devil... doh!

 

[Acert93]

That I hate most about Blu-Ray. I spent money on a HDTV set and it doesn't have HDMI. Ok. So basically what the supporters of Blu-Ray is asking the general public is to go out and BUY another HDTV with HDMI this time. Its ridiculous and they better change it come PS3 release time...or the only Blu-Ray player i'll be having is my PS3...i'll have a HD-DVD player (separate) in the next room for my High-Def cinema needs.

I *think* HD DVD may require the same. I am not sure... but I don't think that is BR dependant.

If it is, I think that right there is a huge issue for BR. I have a couple friends with HDTVs and not one of them have HDMI and all of them view their HDTV as a longterm investment.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

The only really interesting thing to see here is that the two biggest OEMs in the world are supporting Bluray and not HD-DVD, even though Microsoft and Intel are doing the exact opposite.

Even more interesting than that is that the OEM's hardware runs on Wintel. How's that going to work? You mean to tell me that my brand new Dell comes with a top-of-the-line BDRW drive...but wait, I have to go to TDK's website to download the drivers.

It all seems pointless. I only have one hope: That someone wins and someone wins BIG!

 

[BlueTsunami]

Even more interesting than that is that the OEM's hardware runs on Wintel. How's that going to work? You mean to tell me that my brand new Dell comes with a top-of-the-line BDRW drive...but wait, I have to go to TDK's website to download the drivers.

It all seems pointless. I only have one hope: That someone wins and someone wins BIG!

Why would you have to go to the website to download the driver (if thats that hard to begin with?). Your really blowing alot of things our ot praportion. Also, you can package the drivers with the drive itself...just use the install disk like you would any device Microsoft doesn't support. I would be surprised that for every motherboard you ever installed...that 2K/XP picked up each of the devices flawlessy. Also, it isn't Blu-Rays fault, Microsoft could easily enough integrate the BD players drivers into the OS, they choose not to.

 

[London Geezer]

That I hate most about Blu-Ray. I spent money on a HDTV set and it doesn't have HDMI. Ok. So basically what the supporters of Blu-Ray is asking the general public is to go out and BUY another HDTV with HDMI this time. Its ridiculous and they better change it come PS3 release time...or the only Blu-Ray player i'll be having is my PS3...i'll have a HD-DVD player (separate) in the next room for my High-Def cinema needs.

HDDVD will also output HDCP material, just like Bluray. They're both copy protected, which means they will only work with HDMI (or DVI with HDCP). But don't worry, there are already adapters in the works to overcome that issue, by the time Bluray and HDDVD are out we won't even know what HDCP is. Bit like bloody Macromedia.

 

[NavNucST3]

I *think* HD DVD may require the same. I am not sure... but I don't think that is BR dependant.

If it is, I think that right there is a huge issue for BR. I have a couple friends with HDTVs and not one of them have HDMI and all of them view their HDTV as a longterm investment.

You are correct in your assertion, Toshiba themselves have announced that HD material will ONLY be output at HD over either DVI+HDCP or HDMI, so those of us early adopters with component only...well as we say in the Navy BOHICA (bend over here it comes again)...this is why every time I think about selling my DVHS player I just have to remember component output is NOT the enemy on the machine.

Let me also point out that, while I would love to take sides (I would probably be on the HD DVD side merely because it has the movies I want in HD), both sets of DRM suck, its just that AACS sucks less than BD-ROM+ (which HP and DELL conveniently left out of their argument). How long is it going to take before all Lite-Ons are disabled because their was a firmware "upgrade" that was a "threat" to the movie industries bottom line? You guys also realize that those copy protections effect vga monitors and non DVI+HDCP monitors as well. So essentially both sides are asking, neigh, telling you to buy new equipment for both your PC/MAC and your CE equipment.
I have supported HD since day one in the US and from what I see, the movie industry is basically guranteeing that both next-gen formats are at odds with the general public and assuring that DVD is here to stay. Maybe 01JAN09 when analog goes dark will people really get behind a next-gen format but the average consumer that I used to talk to thought that 852x480 was pretty damn good...

 

[scooby_dooby]

It's funny because of all the new technolgies, VHS to DVD and now HD-DVD/Bluray, not one has ever offered LESS of a step up than HD-DVD/BR does, And at the same time, they are asking the consumer to spend MUCH more money.

With VHS you had playback pf movies, recordable movies, pause, rewind etc all in the comfort of your own home. All you needed was the player.

With DVD you got increased interactivity, much better user interface(no more rewinding etc), better quality video's, and all sorts of bonus features. Still, all you had to buy was the player. Adapters could be bought for older TV's for ~$50.

Now HD-DVD gives you.....crisper images, and fancier menu's..... .....and for this people should shell out THOUSANDS of dollars on new TV's?? Even if they have a HD TV already, they need to buy one cause the 16 connections they have in the back are not sufficient? It's kinda ridiculous....with that said....doesn't bother me! I got HDCP-compliant DVI.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

It's funny because of all the new technolgies, VHS to DVD and now HD-DVD/Bluray, not one has ever offered LESS of a step up than HD-DVD/BR does, And at the same time, they are asking the consumer to spend MUCH more money.

With VHS you had playback pf movies, recordable movies, pause, rewind etc all in the comfort of your own home. All you needed was the player.

With DVD you got increased interactivity, much better user interface(no more rewinding etc), better quality video's, and all sorts of bonus features. Still, all you had to buy was the player. Adapters could be bought for older TV's for ~$50.

Now HD-DVD gives you.....crisper images, and fancier menu's..... .....and for this people should shell out THOUSANDS of dollars on new TV's?? Even if they have a HD TV already, they need to buy one cause the 16 connections they have in the back are not sufficient? It's kinda ridiculous....with that said....doesn't bother me! I got HDCP-compliant DVI.

TV and media standards are converging. That's reason enough. DVD was a stupid standard to begin with. How many people complained about the lack of support for HDTV resolutions when it first landed? HDTV has been in the works for what seems like an eternity. While the resolution standards were still being worked out, we still had an idea of what the upper-bound was. That DVDs didn't support that resolution was the writing on the wall. The eventual upgrade was stamped on DVD from birth. BD and HD-DVD offer the first chance to present a new media standard with a new tv standard. Both should last decades the way NTSC did. All HVD offers is more storage and thus, higher bitrates. But BD and HD-DVD can cover that from Day1 and offer the ultimate longevity.

People waiting for HVD are waiting for Godot. It's not gonna matter. It's down to BD and HD-DVD, and a good thing IMO. I'm getting a 1080p set when they are cheap enough, and never looking back. PEACE.

 

[Acert93]

TV and media standards are converging. That's reason enough. DVD was a stupid standard to begin with. How many people complained about the lack of support for HDTV resolutions when it first landed? HDTV has been in the works for what seems like an eternity. While the resolution standards were still being worked out, we still had an idea of what the upper-bound was. That DVDs didn't support that resolution was the writing on the wall. The eventual upgrade was stamped on DVD from birth. BD and HD-DVD offer the first chance to present a new media standard with a new tv standard. Both should last decades the way NTSC did. All HVD offers is more storage and thus, higher bitrates. But BD and HD-DVD can cover that from Day1 and offer the ultimate longevity.

People waiting for HVD are waiting for Godot. It's not gonna matter. It's down to BD and HD-DVD, and a good thing IMO. I'm getting a 1080p set when they are cheap enough, and never looking back. PEACE.

DVD's are a significant consumer success, not to mention they offer a superior image on existing TVs and functionality and features. So I would completely disagree with your comment about DVDs being a stupid standard.

Because they did not cater to a segment of the market (HDTVs) that were in major limbo should not be used against them. How many times has HD media and signals been delayed? It is a miracle we are even seeing it now as it is.

Anyhow, your response is not contradicting Scoob at all. He conceeds HD media is offering high definition output. But he asking, "What else? VHS and DVDs gave us a lot of bang for buck on top of image quality".

And most significantly, those backing HD DVD and BR are asking people like Scoob (and my parents and best friend) to trash their HDTVs to get the primary benefit of HD Optical media because they do not have HDMI or DVI+HDCP.

Using a VCR or DVD never made me dump a brand new TV bought in the last 3 or 4 years to take advantage of their features--especially if my TV already offered the feature. Sony and Toshiba are asking people to pay more to argueably get less than they have in the past.

The fact they are telling people with HDTVs they cannot get HD content because, "You bought the wrong TV" is rediculous. HD Optical already has one significant disadvantage compared to DVDs: The HDTV install base is significantly smaller than the TV install base when DVDs were introduced to the market. The fact HD Optical media is discriminating against potential HD users because they have the wrong TV sets further reduces the market size.

High definition media seems to be the leading selling point of both HD Optical media formats, yet it seems to me there are significant hurdles in the market. Overall I think they will persevere but I don't think we should take these lightly.

I know those who have incompatible HDTVs are not.

 

[Sis]

DVD was a stupid standard to begin with.

Wow.

Just...wow.

.Sis

 

[Sis]

It's funny because of all the new technolgies, VHS to DVD and now HD-DVD/Bluray, not one has ever offered LESS of a step up than HD-DVD/BR does, And at the same time, they are asking the consumer to spend MUCH more money.

With VHS you had playback pf movies, recordable movies, pause, rewind etc all in the comfort of your own home. All you needed was the player.

With DVD you got increased interactivity, much better user interface(no more rewinding etc), better quality video's, and all sorts of bonus features. Still, all you had to buy was the player. Adapters could be bought for older TV's for ~$50.

Now HD-DVD gives you.....crisper images, and fancier menu's..... .....and for this people should shell out THOUSANDS of dollars on new TV's?? Even if they have a HD TV already, they need to buy one cause the 16 connections they have in the back are not sufficient? It's kinda ridiculous....with that said....doesn't bother me! I got HDCP-compliant DVI.

QFT and I'll add: this is why the HD versus BD debate is about as interesting as those dvd audio formats. What are they again? SACD and something else, I'm pretty sure. But I can't even be bothered to look it up.

The slogan for the whole HD/BD format should be: "Striving for slightly better."

.Sis

 

[LunchBox]

Oh come on man, you posted a thread on the THIRD most devicive topic on this board.

1. PS3/Xbox 360
2. Less filling/better tasting
3. HDDVD/BR
   [*]Boxers/briefs
4. Me/You

I mean, what did you expect?

what about boxerbriefs, the thong... and going commando...

 

[one]

The slogan for the whole HD/BD format should be: "Striving for slightly better."

PS3/XBOX360 are slightly better than PS2/XBOX. No really.