Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Xbat]

Here's the thing though, why would Sony even bother using boost clocks if the variance in clock speed is only 50MHz? I can see the trade off lowering the CPU frequency and boosting the GPU as a fair trade off but if it really is that small of a clock difference it seems pretty pointless to me.

It's not boost clocks and anyone that thinks Sony just quickly did this is crazy. This was the design from the beginning as can be seen by the crazy dev kits.

 

[PSman1700]

It's not boost clocks and anyone that thinks Sony just quickly did this is crazy. This was the design from the beginning as can be seen by the crazy dev kits.

Yes they were already at high clocks last year atleast.

 

[iroboto]

Sure, but then why argue flops is deciding factor on what to buy? I just see it being a pretty stupid argument to make decision based on flops when other factors could be equally or even more important.

Something like gamepass is a total gamechanger. Something like sony exclusives can be gamechanger. Even the silly ssd in ps5 can be gamechanger if rockstar/fifa/madden happens to take advantage of it. Few more pixels or less popup/better textures/better/more varied models. Even something like fifa could benefit from faster ssd when zooming into players etc. as it would be very feasible to swap in super highres assets. Then is more pixels or less popup better?


For me the solution is ps5 this year, 1-2 year later upgrade pc to spec better than consoles. My old pc anyway needs upgrading but consoles seem so awesome I'll delay pc upgrade a bit. I still have old 4 core cpu and overpowered 1080ti paired with it. PC's seem to last such a long time nowdays that I have no problem investing pretty big amount of money to pc and keep same machine for 5-8 years. Perhaps upgrade gpu but otherwise keep machine same. My current pc was bought 2013, I see my next pc lasting even better than my current pc.

This is the right answer of course. (a bit OT since we're not talking technical here though).
a) The games you want to play
b) how you want to play them
c) how much it will cost you

should be the largest factors in determine your purchasing behaviour.
Everything we talk about in the tech side of things ranging from audio to teraflops all belong in B mainly, I guess online is a factor as well.
Costs are another discussion point
and of course games, which could be 3P or 1P
If you love 3P titles and want the best 3P experience, then the talk on TF does make a lot more sense.
Platform options like cross save or online streaming make more sense.
etc etc.

some people demand the absolute best, others won't. PS5 will be fine because it's likely the latter. But this thread is a shop talk thread. It may not influence peoples purchasing decisions at all. Some people see shop talk as purely a hobby because they seek to understand how things work.

 

[Dictator]

Assuming it doesn't downclock under load.

So I posted this on ResetERA a few times, but not here. The whole idea is that, like Cerny described in a kind of round about way, is that Devs are going to choose a Mode, like GPU or CPU Mode. In the Former for example, the GPU has Power priority and the CPU goes below that maximum clock of 3.5 GHz. This ensures a more stable GPU clock. The other way around then in CPU Mode.
The extent to which the clocks Fall out for the different priorities remain to be clarified.
This is what has been Heard from people that have the machine.
I think it will make sense that a lot of cross gen games coming from Jag will under utilise the Zen CPU anyway, so GPU Mode makes sense for them. Same for All those games that use unfixed resolutions with fine grain dynamic resolution. But I am not sure what happens if you have a GPU and CPU intensive target.

In theory, the XSX should be able to do 44% more ray intersections in parallel over PS5. PS5 will need to catch up using clockspeed, but it will be burdened by the lesser bandwidth.
I wouldn't necessary call that 15% difference. You're looking at TFs instead of intersections. Compute difference is 15-18%.

I expect bandwidth to be very important in RT Performance, just like it is on PC.

 

[Jubei]

I think nearly 3x more.

New mobo, CPU, GPU, SSD and 16 GB of DDR4 at the XSX specs will probably hit closer to 1600

What would be the point of comparing components available on the shelves today against a console coming out late 2020? Not to mention you need to pay 60 dollars a year to be able to play online. So the Xbox will be somewhere between 500-600 upfront but over its lifetime you will have paid something like a 1000 dollars.

I think PC will always be more expensive but its also a computer, not just a gaming device. But by late 2020/early 2021, we are talking about Zen 3 and Ampere. 1600 dollars will blow away the XSX and PS5 by then

 

[mpg1]

Here's the thing though, why would Sony even bother using boost clocks if the variance in clock speed is only 50MHz? I can see the trade off lowering the CPU frequency and boosting the GPU as a fair trade off but if it really is that small of a clock difference it seems pretty pointless to me.

From a purely cynical perspective....Sony is able to market max potential and it's not like you are ever going to know what it is actually running at...unless someone hacks it...

It's going to be interesting to see what the PSU wattage is for each of these systems.

 

[iroboto]

What would be the point of comparing components available on the shelves today against a console coming out late 2020? Not to mention you need to pay 60 dollars a year to be able to play online. So the Xbox will be somewhere between 500-600 upfront but over its lifetime you will have paid something like a 1000 dollars.

I think PC will always be more expensive but its also a computer, not just a gaming device. But by late 2020/early 2021, we are talking about Zen 3 and Ampere. 1600 dollars will blow away the XSX and PS5 by then

I agree that a PC is also a computer and it can do more. But most people don't need a 1600+ PC to do their work unless you're doing professional work. So I would disagree with that sentiment, it's mainly a gaming device for most folks.
It will come down to cost. If PC was trivially cheaper and had more power, no one would buy a console.

 

[Proelite]

So I posted this on ResetERA a few times, but not here. The whole idea is that, like Cerny described in a kind of round about way, is that Devs are going to choose a Mode, like GPU or CPU Mode. In the Former for example, the GPU has Power priority and the CPU goes below that maximum clock of 3.5 GHz. This ensures a more stable GPU clock. The other way around then in CPU Mode.
The extent to which the clocks Fall out for the different priorities remain to be clarified.
This is what has been Heard from people that have the machine.
I think it will make sense that a lot of cross gen games coming from Jag will under utilise the Zen CPU anyway, so GPU Mode makes sense for them. Same for All those games that use unfixed resolutions with fine grain dynamic resolution. But I am not sure what happens if you have a GPU and CPU intensive target.

I expect bandwidth to be very important in RT Performance, just like it is on PC.

Do you think there are any new features in RDNA2 like DCC in GCN that mitigates the bandwidth requirements of the GPU?

 

[VitaminB6]

I've started to do some reading about ML but I still have a long ways to go to have a better understating of it. Wondering if someone with more knowledge on the subject could chime in and comment on how big of a factor they think it will be in upcoming consoles. I know MS has been doing some work with a type of upscaling using ML and it looked pretty exciting to be honest. Also curious if some of the features talked about in the XBSX such as 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions will be available for Sony as well? I know they were already using RPM last gen so it seems reasonable to assume they would've opted for this as well. Really hoping both MS and Sony employ some type of upscaling on the majority of games instead of pushing more pixels.

 

[BRiT]

Not to mention you need to pay 60 dollars a year to be able to play online.

I still find this off the mark. No one who's considering PC gaming vs Console gaming should ever be paying full retail price for the Online aspects of PS+ or XboxLive. The price is far closer to $40 - $45. You also get free games for that cost, anywhere from 2 (Plus) to 4 (Gold) games a month for that cost.

 

[Jubei]

I agree that a PC is also a computer and it can do more. But most people don't need a 1600+ PC to do their work unless you're doing professional work. So I would disagree with that sentiment, it's mainly a gaming device for most folks.
It will come down to cost. If PC was trivially cheaper and had more power, no one would buy a console.

People arent going to spend 1600 dollars on a PC just to use word or excel but its easier to justify spending 1600 dollars on your gaming hobby when the device you buy can also do other things like Plex, edit homevideos and work etc

But as i said, by late 2020 the XSX will be mid range specs so nobody has to spend 1600 dollars to get the same performance anyway.

 

[iroboto]

People arent going to spend 1600 dollars on a PC just to use word or excel but its easier to justify spending 1600 dollars on your gaming hobby when the device you buy can also do other things like Plex, edit homevideos and work etc

But as i said, by late 2020 the XSX will be mid range specs so nobody has to spend 1600 dollars to get the same performance anyway.

Fair enough, for some people it's easy to justify I guess.
I'm not sure either console will be considered _mid range_ by the time they release though.

 

[Kaotik]

What would be the point of comparing components available on the shelves today against a console coming out late 2020? Not to mention you need to pay 60 dollars a year to be able to play online. So the Xbox will be somewhere between 500-600 upfront but over its lifetime you will have paid something like a 1000 dollars.

I think PC will always be more expensive but its also a computer, not just a gaming device. But by late 2020/early 2021, we are talking about Zen 3 and Ampere. 1600 dollars will blow away the XSX and PS5 by then

The PC suggestion included Game Pass, surely that would be included on Xbox too which makes the online play free (since Game pass time = live time)
You're also over-estimating the gains on PC side. Zen 3 will no doubt be faster, yes, but you won't match 8-core Zen 2 for half the price or anything like that. Same for GPU, of course you will get more performance for less money, but realistically you could probably expect something like 2080S/XSX performance from the 2070S or if you're lucky 2070 price bracket

( fixed typo pay > play)

 

[Jubei]

I still find this off the mark. No one who's considering PC gaming vs Console gaming should ever be paying full retail price for the Online aspects of PS+ or XboxLive. The price is far closer to $40 - $45. You also get free games for that cost, anywhere from 2 (Plus) to 4 (Gold) games a month for that cost.

You can find anything cheaper if you look around or wait for the right time. That doesnt mean the official price is 40 dollars. You get free games on the Epic store, without paying anything. And the games you bought wont be behind a paywall in case you want to play online with your friends. And you can stream Netflix with only a Netflix subscription and an internet connection, no paying for Windows Gold

PS plus and Xbox live should be viewed as something negative rather than positive IMO

 

[Jubei]

The PC suggestion included Game Pass, surely that would be included on Xbox too which makes the online pay free (since Game pass time = live time)
You're also over-estimating the gains on PC side. Zen 3 will no doubt be faster, yes, but you won't match 8-core Zen 2 for half the price or anything like that. Same for GPU, of course you will get more performance for less money, but realistically you could probably expect something like 2080S/XSX performance from the 2070S or if you're lucky 2070 price bracket

Why would you need to match it for half the price? The 3700x already clocks higher than the PS5/XSX and will get a significant discount when Zen 3 is out on the market. The point was that 1600 dollars in 2021 will give you a completely different PC than anything out today

I might be overestimating. You might be underestimating, since neither of us knows the specs only time will tell

 

[Kaotik]

Why would you need to match it for half the price? The 3700x already clocks higher than the PS5/XSX and will get a significant discount when Zen 3 is out on the market. The point was that 1600 dollars in 2021 will give you a completely different PC than anything out today

I might be overestimating. You might be underestimating, since neither of us knows the specs only time will tell

It was meant to represent the fact the prices aren't gonna go to freefall or anything like that. 3700X will get cheaper, but it's price won't come barrel rolling down either. For reference, looking at PricePicker for example Ryzen 7 2700X's price didn't drop after the initial ~10% drop 'till around 3 months after 3700X was out, to about 33% total drop. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bd...core-processor-yd270xbgafbox?history_days=365
And why it's suddenly 2021, XSX (and PS5) is launching in time for holiday 2020

 

[manux]

From technical POV I don't see much difference between xbox and pc. Microsoft is doing excellent job on unifying technologies and API's and even services. To me the question really is what is the best way to play. And I know this is wrong thread but for me the best way is sony console + beefy pc. This combination gives me most content and I can avoid having to upgrade to pro model due to flops flops flops.

The technological aspect is that to me it makes zero sense to buy pc this year. xbox just raised the bar like crazy and there is absolutely no guarantee on what one needs on pc side to surpass console experience. Might not even be possible to surpass xbox with todays pc parts. Who knows, perhaps we will have some direct storage optimized ssd's with special controllers coming out next year,...

We live very interesting times and it has never been better time to be a gamer.

 

[Remij]

Do you guys think that the PS5 will support something similar to what MS will have with their Sampler Feedback Streaming?

 

[iroboto]

Do you guys think that the PS5 will support something similar to what MS will have with their Sampler Feedback Streaming?

DX12 Ultimate.contains(SFS)
RDNA2.contains(DX12 Ultimate)

If PS5 == RDNA 2 then:
Victory

 

[VitaminB6]

It's not boost clocks and anyone that thinks Sony just quickly did this is crazy. This was the design from the beginning as can be seen by the crazy dev kits.

I'm not convinced of that personally, but I respect your opinion.