Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2024] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[DavidGraham]

Kingdom Come 2 was negatively impacted by the Series S console and it's limited 10GB of RAM, the developer wanted to make the game much bigger, but couldn't, so they ended up making the game only 25% bigger?

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2's Scope Was Impacted by Xbox Series S Limitations; Will Run at 4K@30 FPS on PS5/XSX

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 will reportedly feature a single display mode delivering 4K, 30 frames per second gameplay on consoles.

wccftech.com

 

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As the weakest current generation console has only 25% more RAM, Warhorse Studios decided to make the game only 25% bigger than its predecessor.

This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever read.

This has got to be some kind of mistranslation.

 

[Seanspeed]

Map size is definitely not linked to RAM anymore these days.

Only reason I could think RAM would impact map boundary sizes is if there were numerous areas with absolutely gargantuan sightlines, like from end to end, and devs had very high standards for the quality+quantity of the distant rendering. Cuz yea, that'll add up if you insist on using super high draw distances and not cutting out a bunch of detail. But that'd also be silly and stubborn when you could just optimize a bit more here for Series S. I get that it's potentially a little annoying to have to do extra work for Series S at all, but you're not gonna limit your entire game's full ambition over this, either.

These aren't some incompetent technical developers, either. Warhorse were pushing some pretty impressive stuff for KCD at the time, and would know better than to trot out this nonsense with any seriousness.

Sadly just gonna be great fodder for platform warriors.

 

[davis.anthony]

Also density of vegetation

...and the terrible and sometimes horrendous pop-in that comes with it.

 

[Karamazov]

So how did they do just cause 4 on ps4 then

 

[Seanspeed]

So how did they do just cause 4 on ps4 then

Just Cause 2 was on PS3/X360 with just 512MB of RAM. That map is still ridiculously big even by today's standards, and like 10x the size of KCD's map specifically.

 

[Karamazov]

Yes, though it was a lot more of the same everywhere.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

RAM amount is not a limitation on play size. We've had hundreds of lightyears in 1MB RAM, possibly less*. The limitation is information density. eg. A garden of some few square metres can fill up your 16 GBs if detailed to the level for Grounded.

I bring no more to the discussion on KC: Deliverance's claims about XBSX limitations.

 

[Remij]

RAM amount is not a limitation on play size. We've had hundreds of lightyears in 1MB RAM, possibly less*. The limitation is information density. eg. A garden of some few square metres can fill up your 16 GBs if detailed to the level for Grounded.

I bring no more to the discussion on KC: Deliverance's claims about XBSX limitations.

Yeah. Saying "RAM = 25% larger so we could only make the game = 25% larger" is a pretty stupid statement. I'm almost certain something is being lost in translation here.

 

[davis.anthony]

Yeah. Saying "RAM = 25% larger so we could only make the game = 25% larger" is a pretty stupid statement. I'm almost certain something is being lost in translation here.

It it as they already said the game world is twice the size as the first game.

 

[Remij]

I wonder if GTA6 is only 25% bigger than GTA5 because of Series S RAM limitation?

 

[Charlietus]

I'm sure there is some translation issue or maybe the journalist is paraphrasing what the developer is actually saying. At the end of the day it's going to be like, only 25% more models per scene or something.

 

[arandomguy]

I don't think even in the translation it said 25% larger map size. Everyone just seems to have assumed bigger is a reference to map size, when it could just as easily refer to the general increase in scope. Which I don't think is neccesarily bad general guidance for the technical side to give to the design side due to the possibly hardware limitations it has to fit in.

Here is another article with respect to Kingdom Come II's map size -

Kingdom Come: Deliverance II Interview: New Setting Will Feature 'Wide Range of Ethnicities and Different Characters' - IGN

In the first interview following the announcement of Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2, Warhorse Studios shed more light on the map size, the decision to stay with the CryEngine, its approach to historical accuracy, and more.

www.ign.com

With Kingdom Come II being twice the size of the original game, can you talk a bit about how the sequel will fill in that extra space? How will Warhorse Studios handle traversal time and other challenges in a game as granular as this one?

Tobias Stolz-Zwilling, Warhorse Studios spokesperson: Theoretically, being twice the size could mean anything—map size, number of quests, new features… and I believe that the answer includes bit of everything. Yes, we have two maps now, each approximately the size of the first game. Yes, we will, of course, have more quests, cutscenes, random encounters and the like. And yes, while we revamped some of the known features from KCD I, we have also added a few cool new things that people were missing, like crossbows and the blacksmithing minigame. If you know how we handle our features, then you can be sure everything we added is based on our desire to create deep and engaging mechanics.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Went to the horse's mouth. Google translate, but it's very clean and the line in clear context:

Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 poběží na konzolích ve 4K a 30 FPS - Zing

Optimalizace by měla být mnohem lepší než u prvního dílu.

www-zing-cz.translate.goog

Perhaps the most interesting were the statements regarding the technical side. Klíma, like many other developers, mentioned the limitation of the Xbox Series S and its 10GB of memory. So Warhorse's goal was to make the game 25% bigger, since XSS has 25% more memory than PS4/XONE.

That's it! Was just an intention setting out, along with other stats like how many bugs are in the game, and twice the dialogue lines. Nothing at all on actual limits.

It's a non story. Nothing technical about it, a website took a line and turned it into a story framed on console-war bullshit to get clicks. We should move on.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Edit: Hmm, maybe at least on my system this isn't just a camera problem! The actual framerate is staying locked at 60, but whoa - look at this mess:


View attachment 11390

This is what I would expect if I was running the game at PCIe 3.0 8X (which btw - would still be uh, bad!) , but I've confirmed my slot is at least identifying as 4.0 16X.

Is there a throughput utility I can use to see if my PCIe bandwidth is borked?

Update on this: Tried it under Linux, and with VKD3D the frame pacing is almost perfect. Not flawless, some little skips but worlds apart from under Windows. So doesn't appear to be a specific issue with my hardware.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Update on this: Tried it under Linux, and with VKD3D the frame pacing is almost perfect. Not flawless, some little skips but worlds apart from under Windows. So doesn't appear to be a specific issue with my hardware.

I must admit, I've not noticed this at all. The game is super silky smooth for me. Perhaps I'm not as sensitive to it but I really would have thought I'd notice if something were amiss as I usually do.

It may be settings dependent? I'm running unlocked with frame gen on at probably around 90-110fps level.

As an aside, the graphics look very much last gen to me. It has its moments of artistic beauty, but generally it looks pretty dated IMO.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I must admit, I've not noticed this at all. The game is super silky smooth for me. Perhaps I'm not as sensitive to it but I really would have thought I'd notice if something were amiss as I usually do.

It may be settings dependent? I'm running unlocked with frame gen on at probably around 90-110fps level.

It likely is a 60hz issue, I've found games that have problematic frame/camera pacing can usually be remedied by forcing the game into an alternative buffering mechanism - fast sync for DX11, but since this is DX12 Vulkan is pretty much the only way. Alex also noticed this camera skipping when playing at 60hz.

Interestingly enough the dynamic res issue on my system still exists under Vulkan, where it tries to lock more to 56-57fps instead of 60.

As an aside, the graphics look very much last gen to me. It has its moments of artistic beauty, but generally it looks pretty dated IMO.

I think it generally looks good, but they really needed to up-res some of those landscape textures IMO.

As mentioned those particle effects can really look poor under any reconstruction method, even close-up when swinging your sword you get these halos upon them on contact.

This doesn't show it that well in a still image, but looking at this scene with reconstruction enabled, those sparks in the distance become large, pulsating orange orbs, completely gone under TAA:

DLSS vs TAA:

:

In general I think it's a few tweaks away from being in the 'solid' category, from 'underwhelming' now. Granted my camera stutter issue is more of a concern than most because I'm at 60hz, aside from that I'm generally satisfied with the performance - from my experience with a 3060, something like a 3060ti could easily lock gameplay at 4k/DLSS perf, high settings at 60hz (albeit, then we potentially get into vram concerns - sigh).

 

[Seanspeed]

As an aside, the graphics look very much last gen to me. It has its moments of artistic beauty, but generally it looks pretty dated IMO.

It'd be a little upsetting if a last gen game still looked technically competitive with the latest games nearly four years into the new generation! lol

Our standards should have been reset at least a year ago already, it's just this new generation has been sloooooow to get going.

Also, this was never marketed as any kind of remaster or anything. It's just a port of a PS4 title. If you were expecting more, I'm not sure what to say.

 

[see colon]

Also, this was never marketed as any kind of remaster or anything. It's just a port of a PS4 title. If you were expecting more, I'm not sure what to say.

Are we to pretend that the game didn't have a bespoke PS5 release almost a year ago?

 

[Charlietus]

Are we to pretend that the game didn't have a bespoke PS5 release almost a year ago?

This is the description on the ps blog for the upgrade:

"There will also be enhancements to 3D audio* on PS5, as well as drastically improved load times, 4K resolution options** and framerates targeting 60 FPS."

It was never marketed as a major graphical upgrade, !!BESPOKE!! PS5 version or not.