Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2023] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Phantom88]

Other than the Stalker game you mentioned, what are some examples of good game design?

hah. Every genre has it's specific highs and specific issues that need to be resolved. One rule that's a more general one though, is use the medium unique strenghts, that you wont find anywhere else. Dont copy other mediums. The notion of having choices and/or consequnces i feel was a design goal since times immemorial. A linear game, no mather how good it is, its innerently worse than another game thats equal in all else, but has choice over it. And just having designing your game to be interesting and exciting seems to be something that doesnt have to be put in words, no ? Gothic 1 and 2 have fantastic design. Thief has fantastic design. The original Deus Ex has fantastic design. Half Life is an example of linear design thats crafted on the absolute highest level. Every event is deployed masterfully. Every situation inventive. Every script triggered at exactly the right time. A game comprised of unforgetable moments, as one of the old Monolith (Fear,Nolf) developers put it. Rise of Nations, Company of Heroes 1. Supreme Commander 1 i think its the peak of the RTS genre.

I find myself in complete agreement with Spector over here for a broader look

Warren Spector's Commandments of Game Design

Back in the day - that'd be sometime in 1997 or, maybe, 1998 - we, the Ion Storm Austin team and I, were just getting s…

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[function]

Other than the Stalker game you mentioned, what are some examples of good game design?

Fallout: New Vegas.

There were a large amount of choices that were pulled together in the end. You could play the game lots of different ways, focusing on different abilities or even different weapon types. You could make moral choices and then just take the hit in terms of in game rewards. Different difficulty levels radically changed the way you had to approach resource management and time management to survive.

It's possibly the single most impressive piece of game design, branching narrative structure and world building I think I've ever seen (and I've been gaming since the 1980's). And it set an amazingly high bar in terms of all of these things, at once. 100 hours in I was still learning little things about the depth of the gameplay systems.

It's the antithesis of modern console AAA story driven game development.

 

[chris1515]

Replying to myself here since it's the easiest way to reference this whole side track. Man did it blow up in unexpected ways.

I wasn't commenting on the quality of Sony's game development or the quality of their games. They make great games with very high production values.

It was specifically to address a comment that was made that suggested (lightly) that perhaps the best way forward to is to focus on one type of proven formula that does well.

But while that might make development more streamlined, it doesn't address that all gamers don't like the same types of games or the same game "formulas". Lots of gamers love the current "Sony formula" games. Lots of gamers don't, as evidenced by the fact that not all PS owners buy all Sony produced games.

I think too many people got too focused on the "Sony formula" just because it was mentioned as a suggestion for other studios to follow, when the point wasn't anything specific to any particular game development "formula" or style. Pick any one style, formula or genre (I heard FIFA's formula is quite popular, maybe have all studios focus on that fomula? ) and the point remains the same.

Regards,
SB

Sony aren't the only one to be linear and with cinematics. Resident Evil games are story driven too or Metal Gear Solid games too. I think in modern games there is too much RPG aspect with skill tree everywhere.

EDIT: And no game hit every player of Sony PS ecosystem not even GTA.

 

[trinibwoy]

I’m not sure why RPG developers feel so hard pressed to seamlessly transition story branches without taking the player out of the game world. Movies and tv shows fade to black and switch scenes all the time. If that’s the major technical hurdle it seems fixable with the right narrative design. It’s ok to fade to black and move the player to a different location/time at major story events.

Witcher 3 has so many fucking tricks," Sasko said, explaining one in particular—the way it would often cut to black to stage scenes or transition between bits of a quest, letting the developers spawn or despawn objects, and change the weather or time of day.

Then you look at Cyberpunk. No cuts, no black screens, you're 'in' V all the time. Staging is in-person. It got so incredibly more expensive to generate branches. Adding branches to Witcher 3 was so easy in comparison to Cyberpunk.

 

[davis.anthony]

^ Like i said before, Stalker Call of Prypiat has the answer to every complaint gamers have about modern open worlds.

Sorry I have to disagree, the STALKER games are horrible and from memory they were riddled with bugs and glitches (especially the first game)

Pripyat was just the best of a bad bunch (That grass draw distance though ) and most people I knew only bought them because they looked pretty.

My 4070ti still can't hold the opening hub in Clear Sky at 60fps using Ultra settings at native 4k with 4xMSAA.

 

[Globalisateur]

Apparently the physical versions of Star Wars: Jedi Survivor on PS5 and XSX will require additional downloading.. meaning that the entire game isn't resident on discs.

(Download Required above the blue box at the bottom)

Seems like some PS fans aren't happy and expected PS5's superior compression to make the game much smaller than it is on PC and Series X.. which isn't the case. All 3 versions are ~150GB.

This really sucks for many reasons... I know it's not the first game, and wont be the last.. but still.

The problem is not only the compression (as Kraken will save like 10% size compared to zlib). It's very likely the duplication of data to properly run on old PCs with mechanical drives. For Spider-man the cost of duplication was about 15-20%.

Install size of Control on PS5 is about 40% lower than XSX / PC. Not sure if they use kraken compression but the bulk of the saving comes from deduplication of assets. Depending of the game deduplication of data can save a lot of space.

 

[mr magoo]

The problem is not only the compression (as Kraken will save like 10% size compared to zlib). It's very likely the duplication of data to properly run on old PCs with mechanical drives. For Spider-man the cost of duplication was about 15-20%.

Install size of Control on PS5 is about 40% lower than XSX / PC. Not sure if they use kraken compression but the bulk of the saving comes from deduplication of assets. Depending of the game deduplication of data can save a lot of space.

AFAIK duplication of data was something necessary for old hard drives and new gen was suposed to fix that (SSD power). This game is new gen only so i dont see a reason why data duplication should be a problem here.

 

[chris1515]

Some rumors about bad performance on consoles of Jedi survivor by people having early copies maybe a big Day one patch.

 

[Remij]

The problem is not only the compression (as Kraken will save like 10% size compared to zlib). It's very likely the duplication of data to properly run on old PCs with mechanical drives. For Spider-man the cost of duplication was about 15-20%.

Install size of Control on PS5 is about 40% lower than XSX / PC. Not sure if they use kraken compression but the bulk of the saving comes from deduplication of assets. Depending of the game deduplication of data can save a lot of space.

Jedi Survivors is a next gen/PC only game, surely there's no need for them to rely on duplicated assets all over.

I think the game simply has a lot of varied locations with a wide variety of materials and assets, and is just a big game overall... more than anything else.

 

[Remij]

Some rumors about bad performance on consoles of Jedi survivor by people having early copies maybe a big Day one patch.

Really? That sucks, but not surprising really. Where you reading that, Reddit?

I think the previews said the PC version was alright but had stutters from time to time.. likely when traversing and loading new areas in the background like the original game.

 

[chris1515]

Really? That sucks, but not surprising really. Where you reading that, Reddit?

I think the previews said the PC version was alright but had stutters from time to time.. likely when traversing and loading new areas in the background like the original game.

On discord performance mode slowing down to 40 fps on XSX and PS5 but without day one patch.

EDIT:

Game struggling pretty hard on SX and PS5 on performance mode, dropping down even to 40 FPS.

EDIT:
The quality mode is a nearly locked 30 fps.

 

[arhra]

That's weird, because this poster on reddit is reporting that he has an early retail copy on Xbox and it's not letting him play at all.

 

[Globalisateur]

Jedi Survivors is a next gen/PC only game, surely there's no need for them to rely on duplicated assets all over.

I think the game simply has a lot of varied locations with a wide variety of materials and assets, and is just a big game overall... more than anything else.

Config min allows HDDs which means inevitably duplicated assets.

STAR WARS Jedi: Survivor™ - PC System Requirements - Electronic Arts

Learn more about the minimum specs and recommended system requirements to play Star Wars Jedi: Survivor™ on your PC.

www.ea.com

 

[Remij]

Config min allows HDDs which means inevitably duplicated assets.

STAR WARS Jedi: Survivor™ - PC System Requirements - Electronic Arts

Learn more about the minimum specs and recommended system requirements to play Star Wars Jedi: Survivor™ on your PC.

www.ea.com

Not for next gen consoles though. I can understand the PC version bein 150GB.. but the consoles seem heavy when they don't need to consider HDDs at all.

 

[Globalisateur]

Not for next gen consoles though. I can understand the PC version bein 150GB.. but the consoles seem heavy when they don't need to consider HDDs at all.

They won't make several versions of their game. It's easier (cheaper) to do one version for PC, PS5 and Xbox. XSS probably having the same assets with a much lower resolution.

 

[function]

They won't make several versions of their game. It's easier (cheaper) to do one version for PC, PS5 and Xbox. XSS probably having the same assets with a much lower resolution.

Throughout development you should be able to keep a track on asset duplication - for most of development you'd want to avoid this where possible. The type of duplication used for reducing seek times during gameplay is something very specific, tied to the characteristics of HDDs.

It shouldn't be difficult to not do that duplication for games where you only access using SSD. It's not so much an extra step as removing one.

 

[chris1515]

That's weird, because this poster on reddit is reporting that he has an early retail copy on Xbox and it's not letting him play at all.

I find it on discord but it comes from this era thread but this user post many screenshot and he only played the quality mode.

[Spoilers] Twitter user claims to have an early copy of Star Wars: Jedi Survivor, posts screenshots/details EA

HUGE SPOILERS. DO NOT READ IF YOU PLAN TO PLAY THE GAME https://www.reddit.com/r/FallenOrder/comments/12xj3si/leakminor_spoilers_twitter_user_claims_to_have/ Story is about 25 hours long New Game+ launches on release Unlocks red saber color and a party saber color 60 fps 1440p on Series X...

www.resetera.com

 

[mr magoo]

Some rumors about bad performance on consoles of Jedi survivor by people having early copies maybe a big Day one patch.

Here we go again ... But please EA explain to me why i should pay 70+ usd for unfinished game that requires additional 3 months or so patching to get into playable state .....

 

[BRiT]

Here we go again ... But please EA explain to me why i should pay 70+ usd for unfinished game that requires additional 3 months or so patching to get into playable state .....

If only they offered a way to play all their games for cheap after some time passes, like a $30 a year subscription service...

 

[mr magoo]

If only they offered a way to play all their games for cheap after some time passes, like a $30 a year subscription service...

You have right, as a xbox owner basic ea play susbcription is included with GP and this game eventually will be available here. Right now its only EA play pro i guess subscription modell wich is more expensive. But still, yeah point taken.
In the times where quality is to much to ask you have to play clever i guess.